Sick Bearded Dragon

[Drache613]

Hello,

I will try to take a look at everything here. How is your dragon doing?

Tracie

 

[Chris92]

Hello,

I will try to take a look at everything here. How is your dragon doing?

Tracie

Thank you so much, Tracie! Drax is hanging in there, but he hasn't eaten on his own since December 23rd and has lost a tremendous amount of weight. He is definitely starting to get more and more lethargic.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is Drax doing, bless him? Thanks for posting the blood work. I will download them to save them but have looked over
them earlier. What did the vet say about them? He just mentioned the calcium being low but didn't prescribe any liquid calcium
for that? The calcium powder & herptivite are fine. I would recommend getting him on a liquid glubionate calcium to help expedite
absorption.
The calcium level is dangerously low & the calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1:1 which affects absorption. That level has got to
come up. I am surprised they didn't get any liquid calcium for him.
The AST & ALT (liver enzymes) are in normal levels at the moment & so is the Uric acid (kidney values), so his organs should
be functioning well right now.
The Panacur should have been fine but many times, the Albon can be particularly harsh on them system & can dehydrate them.
You can continue to give the critical care with the squash & chicken baby food for him so he gets some nutrition.
I would try to keep him a little warmer overnight around 80 or so, to help keep his system boosted.

I will also PM you as well.

Tracie

 

[Chris92]

Hello,

How is Drax doing, bless him? Thanks for posting the blood work. I will download them to save them but have looked over
them earlier. What did the vet say about them? He just mentioned the calcium being low but didn't prescribe any liquid calcium
for that? The calcium powder & herptivite are fine. I would recommend getting him on a liquid glubionate calcium to help expedite
absorption.
The calcium level is dangerously low & the calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1:1 which affects absorption. That level has got to
come up. I am surprised they didn't get any liquid calcium for him.
The AST & ALT (liver enzymes) are in normal levels at the moment & so is the Uric acid (kidney values), so his organs should
be functioning well right now.
The Panacur should have been fine but many times, the Albon can be particularly harsh on them system & can dehydrate them.
You can continue to give the critical care with the squash & chicken baby food for him so he gets some nutrition.
I would try to keep him a little warmer overnight around 80 or so, to help keep his system boosted.

I will also PM you as well.

Tracie

Thank you for getting back to me, Tracie.

The vet only said that the calcium level was low and diagnosed Drax with "nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism mainly due to hypocalcemia present". They did not prescribe any liquid calcium and said injections were an option, but advised against it due to stress levels. He said to make sure I give him plenty of calcium with D3 powder in his baby food/critical care mixtures.

With that said, I did go to the store and get Fluker's liquid calcium for reptiles (Fluker's® Liquid Calcium Reptile Supplement | reptile Vitamins & Supplements | PetSmart). Is this what you're recommending? I put a couple drops in his water as well as his syringe mixtures (which he doesn't seem to want to take anymore). Should I be trying to put drops directly on his nose? If so, how much?

Do you think this is the main issue causing all of his symptoms? With him having not eaten on his own in a month (and going without calcium for several weeks during that time before I started syringe feeding...), I am just wondering if those results aren't a more recent occurrence due to his diet while being sick with something else. Very curious on your opinion on this.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Lajjea]

Hello,

How is Drax doing, bless him? Thanks for posting the blood work. I will download them to save them but have looked over
them earlier. What did the vet say about them? He just mentioned the calcium being low but didn't prescribe any liquid calcium
for that? The calcium powder & herptivite are fine. I would recommend getting him on a liquid glubionate calcium to help expedite
absorption.
The calcium level is dangerously low & the calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1:1 which affects absorption. That level has got to
come up. I am surprised they didn't get any liquid calcium for him.
The AST & ALT (liver enzymes) are in normal levels at the moment & so is the Uric acid (kidney values), so his organs should
be functioning well right now.
The Panacur should have been fine but many times, the Albon can be particularly harsh on them system & can dehydrate them.
You can continue to give the critical care with the squash & chicken baby food for him so he gets some nutrition.
I would try to keep him a little warmer overnight around 80 or so, to help keep his system boosted.

I will also PM you as well.

Tracie

Hi! Mine has been having these same issues & the vet appointment is finally on Tuesday. They couldn’t accept his bowel movement last Saturday due to being closed on Sunday. He probably won’t go again by Tuesday so wondering what I should ask for if the vet wants to give meds for parasites? What should I give him for probiotics & is this done while being on meds or after?
He hasn’t eaten on his own in many months but laps up what I put on his nose, or he did before the last few weeks which I think he wants to brumate but I’m trying to avoid. He weighs 360g.
Here is the screen. Been moving the distance up & down for many months due to different advice. Screen is wide hole chicken wire so can you please suggest the distance. Thank you!

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi! Mine has been having these same issues & the vet appointment is finally on Tuesday. They couldn’t accept his bowel movement last Saturday due to being closed on Sunday. He probably won’t go again by Tuesday so wondering what I should ask for if the vet wants to give meds for parasites? What should I give him for probiotics & is this done while being on meds or after?
He hasn’t eaten on his own in many months but laps up what I put on his nose, or he did before the last few weeks which I think he wants to brumate but I’m trying to avoid. He weighs 360g.
Here is the screen. Been moving the distance up & down for many months due to different advice. Screen is wide hole chicken wire so can you please suggest the distance. Thank you!

Feed him some canned plain pumpkin that will make him go ---- add a little olive oil like a drop most dragons like pumpkin
distance for top of screen can be 12-15 inches w/ as wide hole as it is - that chicken wire is going to let alot of rays thru -- is he basking under it now and for how long what distance is it at now

 

[Lajjea]

Feed him some canned plain pumpkin that will make him go ---- add a little olive oil like a drop most dragons like pumpkin
distance for top of screen can be 12-15 inches w/ as wide hole as it is - that chicken wire is going to let alot of rays thru -- is he basking under it now and for how long what distance is it at now

Thank you for the pumpkin tip! Just moved it back to 10” (9” with his pillow) today after reading this column. It has been at 14 1/2” for the past 2 weeks. I move it between the two because people are always telling me different things. The pic of the screen is my female who has the same setup except she has a climber thing which she likes to lay up there at 8” which is mostly just her head so I’m wondering why she doesn’t lay on the basking spot either at 10” nor the 14”. Want to say it’s chicken fencing but not sure. Each square measures 5 lines on a measuring tape.
Also really confused on D3. Someone told me not to use it while others say I should. He is 12 or 13 months & she is 9 months.

 

[KarrieRee]

Thank you for the pumpkin tip! Just moved it back to 10” (9” with his pillow) today after reading this column. It has been at 14 1/2” for the past 2 weeks. I move it between the two because people are always telling me different things. The pic of the screen is my female who has the same setup except she has a climber thing which she likes to lay up there at 8” which is mostly just her head so I’m wondering why she doesn’t lay on the basking spot either at 10” nor the 14”. Want to say it’s chicken fencing but not sure. Each square measures 5 lines on a measuring tape.
Also really confused on D3. Someone told me not to use it while others say I should. He is 12 or 13 months & she is 9 months.

For a dragon over a year old D3 is not used as much w/ your T 5 -- insects should be fed 2-3 times per week w / the regular calcium w/ NO phosphorus -- and if your dragons are eating those salads then the Vitamins can be cut back as well - they will get the nutrients out of the salads - the 9 month old should still be getting D3 every day on the insects - but you only dust one time if your feeding more than once a day vitamins still 2 x per week - when your 9 month old turns about a year put her on the same schedule as the older one - I looked at your screen its pretty wide holed

 

[Lajjea]

For a dragon over a year old D3 is not used as much w/ your T 5 -- insects should be fed 2-3 times per week w / the regular calcium w/ NO phosphorus -- and if your dragons are eating those salads then the Vitamins can be cut back as well - they will get the nutrients out of the salads - the 9 month old should still be getting D3 every day on the insects - but you only dust one time if your feeding more than once a day vitamins still 2 x per week - when your 9 month old turns about a year put her on the same schedule as the older one - I looked at your screen its pretty wide holed

Sorry! Did not see that you replied & feel bad for not responding. I really appreciate your advice!! Will move them back to the 12-15” under the UVB & leave it there from now on.
Thank you for clearing up my D3 confusion as well! Thank you so much!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Calcium levels namely the 25-hydroxy levels (D3 storage) can take some time to become low enough to
manifest external symptoms. If the levels do start to fall, that can stress the body to a point of causing other
health problems such as increased parasite levels, etc.
Since he hasn't voluntarily eaten on his own he certainly didn't get adequate calcium which would be a huge
factor.
What does the Fluker's label indicate as the strength of the solution, or, what is it listed in PPM or mg/ml?
That one will be fine. I can help to dose it so he gets a proper dose for his weight. Have you noticed any
improvements with the lighting improvements?
Do you feel that the meds helped him, or do you think he is still having trouble?
Continue to feed him via syringe, since he has lost so much weight right now.

I will check my PM's also.
Tracie

 

[Chris92]

Hello,

Calcium levels namely the 25-hydroxy levels (D3 storage) can take some time to become low enough to
manifest external symptoms. If the levels do start to fall, that can stress the body to a point of causing other
health problems such as increased parasite levels, etc.
Since he hasn't voluntarily eaten on his own he certainly didn't get adequate calcium which would be a huge
factor.
What does the Fluker's label indicate as the strength of the solution, or, what is it listed in PPM or mg/ml?
That one will be fine. I can help to dose it so he gets a proper dose for his weight. Have you noticed any
improvements with the lighting improvements?
Do you feel that the meds helped him, or do you think he is still having trouble?
Continue to feed him via syringe, since he has lost so much weight right now.

I will check my PM's also.
Tracie

Tracie,

Drax seems sort of stable at this point. I would have said he has improved over the past three days (ever since I started giving some liquid calcium) as he looks more alert and is more willing to eat from the syringe... With that said, this morning I noticed that his back legs were very shaky/weak. What would cause this? He sort of wobbles when he walks and often falls down on his belly (video sample to show this, the green on his face is his slurry). It is kind of scary. I also notice his posture is sometimes a bit strange. Like when he stands on all fours, he very upright away from the ground.

As for the liquid calcium, they don't tell you the exact concentration. They say "calcium not less than 6 percent" and to "put 1/2 teaspoon per 8 oz of water or to add 1/2 teaspoon to food 3 times per week."

Also, I started a new slurry using pureed greens (collard), blueberries with the vitamins and calcium. He is more willing to eat this instead of baby food.

 

[Chris92]

Tracie,

Drax seems sort of stable at this point. I would have said he has improved over the past three days (ever since I started giving some liquid calcium) as he looks more alert and is more willing to eat from the syringe... With that said, this morning I noticed that his back legs were very shaky/weak. What would cause this? He sort of wobbles when he walks and often falls down on his belly (video sample to show this, the green on his face is his slurry). It is kind of scary. I also notice his posture is sometimes a bit strange. Like when he stands on all fours, he very upright away from the ground.

As for the liquid calcium, they don't tell you the exact concentration. They say "calcium not less than 6 percent" and to "put 1/2 teaspoon per 8 oz of water or to add 1/2 teaspoon to food 3 times per week."

Also, I started a new slurry using pureed greens (collard), blueberries with the vitamins and calcium. He is more willing to eat this instead of baby food.

I am attaching a second video showing him walking crooked as well... and another picture to show the strange "upright posture" I mentioned...

 

[Chris92]

I am attaching a second video showing him walking crooked as well... and another picture to show the strange "upright posture" I mentioned...

Hi all,

I noticed a new concerning symptom.... he now occasionally has head tremors. These tremors are more like subtle vibrations that last a couple seconds and happen every few minutes... This isn't Drax, but it looks identical to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BeardedDragons/comments/ehsu0s
Strangely, when I hold him in my hand, it is almost as if his entire body occasionally vibrates. It is a weird feeling.

I am still giving him daily liquid calcium and multivitamins, though it is strange that this symptom and the odd walking (which actually has gotten better as of today) have come out of nowhere.

He is very alert and has a ton of energy (seems to actually be glass surfing a bit), but still wont eat on his own and is still very skinny. He has pretty much plateaued at 234 grams.

 

[Badwolfe]

The shaking is normally a sign of calcium deficiency in a bearded dragon or a lack of vitamins (predominantly vitimin B) but it can also be caused by problems at the other end of the scale where a dragon his been dosed with too much vitamins and can be suffering from poisoning.

If it is calcium deficiency then its not going to clear up overnight unfortunately.

 

[Chris92]

The shaking is normally a sign of calcium deficiency in a bearded dragon or a lack of vitamins (predominantly vitimin B) but it can also be caused by problems at the other end of the scale where a dragon his been dosed with too much vitamins and can be suffering from poisoning.

If it is calcium deficiency then its not going to clear up overnight unfortunately.

Yeah, the blood results showed him having poor calcium levels (1:1 ratio with phosphorus). Strange that all these neuro symptoms didn't really start until I began treating the hypocalcemia (in the last week). Maybe just a coincidence...

The vet said based on what I have been giving him an overdose/hypercalcemia is unlikely.