Should I feed this size or that?

[Ashnic2010]

Hey guys so, I have a juvie beardie who is approximately 10inches in length and he is now able to go at 1/2" dubias with no trouble. I typically order from dubiaroaches.com because they have great value for money and I have yet to have a bad experience. However, they have 500 1/2" dubia for $44 and a site called "GotDubia" has 1000 3/4 dubia for the same price.

I spend so much on bugs and want to buy the 1k dubia even though they're smaller because they will last 3 weeks tops. He eats 50/day. Is it okay for him to eat smaller dubia or do they have to be the exact size of the space between his eyes? I also feed him bsfl and medium crickets on occasion.

 

[KarrieRee]

Your dragon is eating way too many roaches --- are you feeding salads? worms? That many roaches he is at risk for developing gout---- please post a pic of him and the roaches hes eating ---- w/ him eating that many I am thinking your feeding too small of a roach--- at 10 months old he should be eating large --- but post a pic of him and the roach ---- also he should be eating insects NO bigger than the space between his eyes length wise ----- mine were only eating like 6 at that time but were also eating salads and worms as well ----

 

[Ladyzombie9294]

Your dragon is eating way too many roaches --- are you feeding salads? worms? That many roaches he is at risk for developing gout---- please post a pic of him and the roaches hes eating ---- w/ him eating that many I am thinking your feeding too small of a roach--- at 10 months old he should be eating large --- but post a pic of him and the roach ---- also he should be eating insects NO bigger than the space between his eyes length wise ----- mine were only eating like 6 at that time but were also eating salads and worms as well ----

he is only 3-4 months old and is perfectly healthy. I feed him 50 bugs a day usually a mix of bsfl, crickets, and roaches BUT, I prefer roaches because they don't die, can be left in the cage, and he likes them.

 

[Ladyzombie9294]

Your dragon is eating way too many roaches --- are you feeding salads? worms? That many roaches he is at risk for developing gout---- please post a pic of him and the roaches hes eating ---- w/ him eating that many I am thinking your feeding too small of a roach--- at 10 months old he should be eating large --- but post a pic of him and the roach ---- also he should be eating insects NO bigger than the space between his eyes length wise ----- mine were only eating like 6 at that time but were also eating salads and worms as well ----

I also want to mention I said he was TEN INCHES in length not 10 months of age. I am very much aware of how much, how big, and what I need to feed him that is not what I was asking. I was asking if he can eat a smaller bug. I am not uneducated. I know he needs to eat a mix of bugs and greens which he does and I am also very much well aware not to feed him anything bigger than the space between his eyes. please read the enitre text before jumping to conclusions that I am not properly feeding my dragon. This is why I do not ever ask for advice because everyone assumes you are just doing it wrong. geesh.

 

[fcooper]

Be careful with feeding exclusively dubias. There has been a notable increase in the number of beardies, including juveniles, developing gout. Gout is the build up of uric acid in the joints that causes them to swell , is very painful and can render a dragon almost immobile and eventually can even lead to death.

The connection seems possibly related to the fact that roaches that are fed protein diets store up uric acid + this passes on to the beardies.

 

[λύκος]

Be careful with feeding exclusively dubias. There has been a notable increase in the number of beardies, including juveniles, developing gout. Gout is the build up of uric acid in the joints that causes them to swell , is very painful and can render a dragon almost immobile and eventually can even lead to death.

The connection seems possibly related to the fact that roaches that are fed protein diets store up uric acid + this passes on to the beardies.

Hi,

Do you happen to have a source or more information on this please? Did you find out from a herpetologist or from the community? The only article I found regarding gout was Wilkinson, S. L., & Divers, S. J. (2020). Clinical Management of Reptile Renal Disease. Veterinary Clinics of North America: Exotic Animal Practice, 23(1): 151-168. doi:10.1016/j.cvex.2019.09.002, which explains,

...an increased incidence of young bearded dragons less than 2 years old with articular gout. Anecdotal reports suggest a possible association with feeding Dubia roaches (Blaptica dubia) that have themselves been fed high-protein dog or cat food. As such, these feeder insects are gaining a reputation, which is likely undeserved, of contributing to gout. It is more likely that protein enrichment, rather than the roach itself, is the main problem. More commonly, many adult bearded dragons continue to be fed a largely insectivorous diet with little to no plant material. This certainly can result in excessive dietary protein and increased demands on uric acid excretion. Certain sources of lineages also appear to be more commonly affected, and a genetic predisposition is also possible.

That was just found doing a quick search, but I am having trouble finding more articles regarding gout and Pogona vitticeps. I found another article that does look good that I glanced through briefly, Feed Conversion, Survival and Development, and Composition of Four Insect Species on Diets Composed of Food By-Products. If you happen to know where to find anymore information regarding gout and feeding Blaptica dubia, then please let me know.

I have been reading articles and books as well as looking through this forum since I was given my boy in October and have collected quite a few articles regarding many aspects of husbandry, but gout is one that I had not come across yet when feeding B. dubia, so I appreciate the information you shared.

Thanks again,
Nyx

 

[KarrieRee]

You dont want to over feed dubias its good to give a variety of bugs like crickets BSFL and silk worms --- we have had a lot of dragons on the forum getting gout - it is often not recommended to feed dubias after being diagnosed w/ gout -- out vet tech mod on here can give more info on that
@Drache613

 

[SPandS]

Are you correct when you say 3/4? I ask because you say he eats 1/2 now and want to know if he can eat the 3/4 but also keep saying smaller. 3/4 is bigger than 1/2.

I personally don't feed mine dubia roaches. I know they can be good for beardies and so many feed them without issues. And whenever I start to think I should another post pops up on here about a dragon getting gout and are fed dubias. I don't have any specific articles just what I read on here but for me it's enough to scare me away. There are enough other bugs my dragons can still have a nice variety.