Second opinions? How can I help her?

[Oxymiocysu]

Hello,

That's good to hear she is stable right now. Maybe she has laid all of the eggs now, since she isn't digging or pacing, etc.
How long has it been since she has eaten?

Tracie

She hasn't laid any eggs yet, it doesnt seem like she will unless they're still developing. Maybe she's reabsorbing?

It's been at least two weeks since she last ate on her own , and even then it wasn't much at all. I've just been assist feeding her to make sure she's still getting nutrients.

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Well I guess you will know what happened with the eggs from the xray if she hasnt laid them. Your follow up is on the 8th right? The xray may clarify what those anechoic areas (dark spots on the ultrasound) are too, if they are anything. Glad to hear shes doing well!

Yes, it's on the 8th. I'll request both an ultrasound and an xray to see what's going on with the eggs and maybe the dark spots too.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Ok, great, the 8th isn't too far off.
It is possible she is reabsorbing them. If they aren't being shelled then she could possibly be reabsorbing
them. Be sure she is getting adequate calcium too just in case.
Is she maintaining her weight? If she needs nutritional support, you can get some chicken or turkey baby food mixed with sweet potato or squash baby food to give to her. Use a plastic syringe or dropper to drip it
onto her nose. She should like the flavor. They usually stop eating right before they lay because the eggs take up a large portion of the coelomic cavity.
Is her beard normal color & not darker?

Tracie

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Hello,

Ok, great, the 8th isn't too far off.
It is possible she is reabsorbing them. If they aren't being shelled then she could possibly be reabsorbing
them. Be sure she is getting adequate calcium too just in case.
Is she maintaining her weight? If she needs nutritional support, you can get some chicken or turkey baby food mixed with sweet potato or squash baby food to give to her. Use a plastic syringe or dropper to drip it
onto her nose. She should like the flavor. They usually stop eating right before they lay because the eggs take up a large portion of the coelomic cavity.
Is her beard normal color & not darker?

Tracie

She's been getting a dose of calcium daily and her last levels were high, so I think she's getting enough.

I'll weigh her tomorrow to see where she's at, if she's lost or gained anything substantial. Should I switch off the repta boost and move to baby food instead?

Her beard and overall body colors have been very bright these past few days! No stress marks or anything.

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Update -
I weighed her today, she's 509 grams so she's not losing any weight.

I decided to mix chicken and squash baby food with repta boost, but using about half the amount of repta boost that I've been. Maybe this will help her regain interest in food, tasting other flavors.

She's still bright and colorful.

 

[Oxymiocysu]

I think she may have aspirated some of the mixture during the feeding today. She was doing what I could only assume was coughing between slow, shallow breaths. It didn't last for long, she's back to breathing normally now.

 

[Sue E.]

Yes, it's on the 8th. I'll request both an ultrasound and an xray to see what's going on with the eggs and maybe the dark spots too.

I think she may have aspirated some of the mixture during the feeding today. She was doing what I could only assume was coughing between slow, shallow breaths. It didn't last for long, she's back to breathing normally now.

Just keep an eye on her for any further coughing or changes in breathing. Sometimes you can help them expel by holding them somewhat vertically, tail up and nose pointed down, to allow them to drain the fluid naturally from their mouths.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh good grief, that happens unfortunately. Definitely keep an eye on her for further symptoms. To be proactive, keep her a little warmer overnight just to boost her immune system.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Just keep an eye on her for any further coughing or changes in breathing. Sometimes you can help them expel by holding them somewhat vertically, tail up and nose pointed down, to allow them to drain the fluid naturally from their mouths.

Hello,

Oh good grief, that happens unfortunately. Definitely keep an eye on her for further symptoms. To be proactive, keep her a little warmer overnight just to boost her immune system.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

Thanks for your suggestions! She's doing okay still, no more coughing or breathing charges or anything after that initial bout.

She continues to remain stable, bright and colorful, and active. Unfortunately, she continues to also not eat on her own.

I noticed yesterday after she pooped she tried pooping a couple more times, so I'm wondering what's going on there. The first looked to be well formed and complete, her subsequent attempts were fruitless. She only does this after she poops in her water dish, not when she's on dry land.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is good to hear she isn't coughing or breathing strangely after that episode. At least she is active, but not sure why she isn't eating anything. You can try giving some bee pollen or a few drops of blackstrap molasses thinned out with warm water to
help with appetite. If she is does have eggs then that can affect the appetite, too.
Does she appear to be straining?

Tracie

 

[Sue E.]

Thanks for your suggestions! She's doing okay still, no more coughing or breathing charges or anything after that initial bout.

She continues to remain stable, bright and colorful, and active. Unfortunately, she continues to also not eat on her own.

I noticed yesterday after she pooped she tried pooping a couple more times, so I'm wondering what's going on there. The first looked to be well formed and complete, her subsequent attempts were fruitless. She only does this after she poops in her water dish, not when she's on dry land.

She might be trying to lay her eggs rather than pooping now that she has passed that poop, so keep a careful eye...if she is unable to pass them she is going to need vet intervention asap. Is she using her dig box at all?

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Hello,

That is good to hear she isn't coughing or breathing strangely after that episode. At least she is active, but not sure why she isn't eating anything. You can try giving some bee pollen or a few drops of blackstrap molasses thinned out with warm water to
help with appetite. If she is does have eggs then that can affect the appetite, too.
Does she appear to be straining?

Tracie

I'll start adding bee pollen in with her daily routine again. Could she just not be hungry because I've been assist feeding her daily? Should I consider not assist feeding for a couple of days to see if she gets hungry enough to start eating on her own? I don't want her to get worse.

Maybe slightly straining, yes.

She might be trying to lay her eggs rather than pooping now that she has passed that poop, so keep a careful eye...if she is unable to pass them she is going to need vet intervention asap. Is she using her dig box at all?

She is not using her dig box, and is also not showing any signs that she's gravid other than lack of appetite. She has an appointment tomorrow, so I'll get that xray and ultrasound to see what's going on inside her.

I'm hoping it isn't a case of bound eggs, the nearest vet that can help with that is around 3 hours away. If it is that, what is the likelihood she's able to withstand the anesthesia/surgery? She's going to be 8 years old on the 20th.

 

[Sue E.]

I'm hoping it isn't a case of bound eggs, the nearest vet that can help with that is around 3 hours away. If it is that, what is the likelihood she's able to withstand the anesthesia/surgery? She's going to be 8 years old on the 20th.

I wish I could tell you there is no risk at all, but any anesthesia/surgery has a risk whether in humans or animals. Avoiding a necessary surgery may carry more risk in some cases. You can do things to minimize that risk: make sure the vet you choose is experienced in bearded dragons and someone you feel confident in, make sure your beardie is in the best possible condition prior to surgery (hydrated, alert, in good body tone when possible, etc). Follow any pre-op preparation instructions to the letter. Have bloodwork, Xrays,etc done prior to surgery and if possible give the results to the surgeon to give him a clearer picture (many surgeons will do their own bloodwork). Follow all postop instructions to the letter also. If your beardie has a stay at the vets after surgery, use that time to clean and disinfect her enclosure to minimize post op infection. Hope that helps. Age alone is not a contraindication to surgery in a healthy animal; some chronic underlying conditions may be, but go over the risks vs benefits with your exotic vet to help you make the best choice you can. Good luck to you and your girl!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree, there are always risks involved with the anesthesia but that goes for everyone, humans as well.
As long as she is healthy & it seems like she is, then going through a surgery would be just fine. If she
is egg bound & not able to lay then the surgery is important if she is truly egg bound & for some reason
not able to lay.
At 8, as long as the anesthesia is given in the proper dose, & the vet has experience with this type of
procedure, technically everything should be pretty low risk. It is less risky when they are healthy & not
in the middle of a health crisis, also.
Assist feeding can definitely decrease their natural appetite. You could try to lessen the amount given to see if she starts eating more on her own.
Let us know how the ultrasound & x-ray go & if possible post images here for us.

Tracie

 

[Oxymiocysu]

Thank you both for your input on surgery and anesthesia.

Today at the vet she weighed 518 grams, so well above what she was at the start of this thread. She was alert, active, and colorful. We did an x-ray and ultrasound to see how she's looking on the inside. We didn't observe any shelled eggs, but still some follicles present in various states - some lighter, some darker. The weird masses we saw before on the ultrasound were also no longer there. More free fluid was observed. We don't think her right toe has worsened at all.

The vet mentioned it's possible she may be in follicular stasis - stating this is likely a surgical issue and suggested the best option would be to keep her as comfortable as we can as opposed to going the surgical route for the time being. The biggest reason the vet presented on keeping her comfortable as opposed to surgery would be that Pancake has historically not tolerated medicine that she says most bearded dragons generally would tolerate without problem. She has concerns that Pancake wouldn't tolerate the anesthesia either, and would personally be nervous operating on a dragon with a history like Pancake's.

It's worth noting the vet didn't seem terribly confident in her diagnosis. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the likelihood of stasis based on the images attached, those previously shared, and the information we have?

For the next two weeks until our recheck (on the 20th, coincidentally Pancake's birthday) we agreed to continue keeping her on the same treatment (meloxicam and calcium supplementation daily), as well as reducing assist feeding amount to encourage her to eat again on her own. I'm comfortable with this, as her weight is up significantly so we have a little wiggle room if she refuses to eat and loses some weight again.

When I got home I didn't do any assist feeding, instead I directly offered greens and she took a few small bites, but only if I was holding them. Nonetheless, progress!