Ruby's vet visit today. If you are new to beardies or plan to become a keeper please read this thread

[xp29]

As any of you that know me or my beardies know, Ruby is very truely a recue. She is absolutely the most loving, warm and appreciative creature I have ever seen. She loves life and is nothing short of pure joy. Even the most timid of people can't resist her.
She was surrendered to a local reptile shop that started rehabilitating her. The person that had her before me did not provide her with proper care, supplements, and most importantly/critically proper uvb. She was paralyzed in her rear legs. She couldn't even stand to go potty and just had to sit in it when she did. She was just starting to regain use of her legs when she came to us. Unfortunately she had already developed mbd (metabolic bone disease, for the newbies) it cannot be cured. At best you can halt/slow the progression.
I have been acutely aware of her situation and needs from the day we brought her home, and I have been diligent to the extreme in her care. Despite my best efforts her mdb has continued to slowly progress. You see, Ruby's appetite has never been solid. Sometimes she will eat well for weeks or a couple months. When she does I load her with calcium, and she never has anything less than the best lighting. She can get as close as 4 inches of her uvb or as far from it as she pleases. It has always been unobstructed. BUT, there are times when for weeks she is really difficult to get to eat. During these times it's very hard to get calcium into her. As a result of this her mbd has slowly continued to progress.
She walks now but it is very disjointed and clumsy. She is as likely as not to flip herself over when she walks. If she runs it's guaranteed she will flip over. Luckily she can right herself. We took her in to the vet today for a wellness check and for an x-ray.
Thankfully the mbd has not affected her legs, hands, and wrist.
But take a look at her spine and her little ribs. THIS IS WHAT NO, POOR, OR INADEQUATE UVB DOES! It by no means is if, it is very much WHEN. If you do not provide proper and quality uvb, THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL DO TO YOUR BEARDIE! The fault and the blame will be all on you. It's as easy to prevent as taking the time to get your lighting on par. If you think I'm being aggressive, mean, rude, or trying to scare you, your exactly right. Beardies are some of the most precious, loving, and rewarding pets we can keep. They deserve to be kept by educated, devoted, and loving keepers. The things we humans do to them on a regular basis out of laziness or unwillingness to put the research in BEFORE we bring them home is absolutely inexcusable. So if I can prevent even just one beardie from suffering Ruby's fate, hook or crook so be it. There is extensive knowledge and resources on this forum make use of them. If you don't know ask. Never guess, if your guessing, chances are you will be wrong, and your beardie is the one that will suffer for it. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
So now that I have that out of my system (I was so infuriated seeing her x-ray I couldn't just let it go) please take a minute and really looks at her x-ray. You can prevent this from happening to your beardie, the knowledge on this forum gives you the power and ability to get it right the first time.

 

[ChileanTaco]

Thank you so very much for helping her, and also for summarizing this in this posting to inform other people who don't know.
And I can agree to everything (!) in your posting.
(I have myself, for a different reason, very much deformed ribs, spine and hips. As because of a different reason, me having this could not be prevented. But in a dragon, it's easy to prevent Really, when, long before getting a bearded dragon, when I saw such x-rays and thought "oh my god, looks so much like mine - but for a dragon, it's just the calcium and the UVB!" ... it was immediately clear to me that the UVB is absolutely absolutely necessary and if I could not get the lamps here, having a bearded dragon won't happen.)

 

[Chris.]

Thank you for this post. If only one person takes the time reading it and acts accordingly, it was very much worth the time writing it!

 

[xp29]

Thank you for this post. If only one person takes the time reading it and acts accordingly, it was very much worth the time writing it!

Thats what I was thinking also!
I can see in my threads if I put my phone in desktop mode that 182 people have opened that post, I would like to think it helped at least a few of them understand how important lighting truely is.

On a side note we have a customers vehicle here with a weird problem so he came and drove for me because I couldn't duplicate it. He had an accent and when I asked about, he is from Germany . I told him about Lilith and Zsa Zsa, he was all about the beardies lol.

 

[ChileanTaco]

He had an accent and when I asked about, he is from Germany . I told him about Lilith and Zsa Zsa, he was all about the beardies lol.

That's funny Reminds me of where I've always found Germans. Somebody at work here is also from Germany - we're making fun with chatting in German and leaving others puzzled

 

[xp29]

That's funny Reminds me of where I've always found Germans. Somebody at work here is also from Germany - we're making fun with chatting in German and leaving others puzzled

Lucky for me he spoke in English (my native tongue) it's the only thing I can speak and some times I struggle to even do that lmao

 

[CitrusLemonBeardie]

What a beautiful dragon and brilliant post.

I will have had Lemon three years at Christmas and still consider myself a newbie, constantly researching, learning and fact checking everything about him.

I was CLUELESS when I bought him, and was very much taken in by the promises of a bearded dragon being an 'easy' pet. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG. The setup he came with was completely inadequate (red bulb / coil uv etc), as well as much of the advice I received, but I am very fortunate that a) I found this site within days and b) financially I was able to afford an immediate upgrade plus the ongoing costs associated with the care he needs and deserves as a spoilt dragon. People don't realise the impact poor husbandry can have on these gorgeous creatures and seeing the Xray of Ruby is heartbreaking

100% had I known what I know now, I would not have chosen a bearded dragon for my then 12 year old. However, I educated (and continue to educate) myself on a daily basis and he is completely loved and spoiled and we wouldn't be without him.

I imagine so many owners go into it as naive as I was, lulled by the promise of an 'easy' pet and (dare I say it) 'a beardie starter pack' and then find themselves unable to care for their beardie appropriately.

If Ruby's story helps even one beardie / beardie owner then that's a job well done!

 

[xp29]

What a beautiful dragon and brilliant post.

I will have had Lemon three years at Christmas and still consider myself a newbie, constantly researching, learning and fact checking everything about him.

I was CLUELESS when I bought him, and was very much taken in by the promises of a bearded dragon being an 'easy' pet. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG. The setup he came with was completely inadequate (red bulb / coil uv etc), as well as much of the advice I received, but I am very fortunate that a) I found this site within days and b) financially I was able to afford an immediate upgrade plus the ongoing costs associated with the care he needs and deserves as a spoilt dragon. People don't realise the impact poor husbandry can have on these gorgeous creatures and seeing the Xray of Ruby is heartbreaking

100% had I known what I know now, I would not have chosen a bearded dragon for my then 12 year old. However, I educated (and continue to educate) myself on a daily basis and he is completely loved and spoiled and we wouldn't be without him.

I imagine so many owners go into it as naive as I was, lulled by the promise of an 'easy' pet and (dare I say it) 'a beardie starter pack' and then find themselves unable to care for their beardie appropriately.

If Ruby's story helps even one beardie / beardie owner then that's a job well done!

Thank you for the kind words.
Ruby is actually the happiest of all the dragons I've kept, Sweet Pea was just a tick behind her (a rescue also) Sweet Pea is gone now, but I'll swear to my dying day, both fully understood being rescued and showed/shows so much appreciation and love that anyone not witnessing it 1st hand won't comprehend.
The fact that they behaved this way makes me feel like that they must also fully understand the neglect in a bad home, that breaks my heart. That is the reason for post like this and this site as a whole. This site was designed and implemented with the intention of making life better for them ( just ask @beardie, this is his site and he is an amazing person) so if I can add something that promotes good care, I'm all in also I'm just glad folks are taking the time to look at it

 

[ChileanTaco]

The fact that they behaved this way makes me feel like that they must also fully understand the neglect in a bad home, that breaks my heart.

I'm so sure that animals understand that.
Well, I'd say, it does not take so much for an animal to understand that. In the wild, why do we find animals in certain habitats? In certain micro-habitats (like: that lizard basking on a certain stone under which he dug a cave to quickly jump down and disappear when feeling threatened instead of just being "too lazy" for digging it, a butterfly laying its eggs not just on the next plant it can find but flies a long distance to find a very specific kind of plant that contains the right oils to make the caterpillars smell bad, an owl repurposing a rabbit burrow, a pack rat making a nest under and in a thorny plant)?
Because they feel that "this" is better than any other "that" for them.
Why do they often try so hard to gain access to certain things, like birds searching for mineral-rich soil only found in certain places? Or digging a burrow, which takes time and energy?
Being somebody's pet, they can't make choices. And this will impose even more stress - what has evolution built into them makes them to want to try even harder to finally get what they need.
Some animals might understand "this is this person's fault"*, some might interpret it as "this person is like a flock member, a pack leader, a rival that wants to get rid of me and hates me", some might "only" feel the constant "it's not right here, and I can't get away regardless as hard as I try".

So, in my opinion, despite bearded dragons possess quite good cognition, it would not even require that. Something like "this is the right condition" and "a feeling of stress and suffering makes sure to get away from places with bad condition and find the right condition even if it's hard" is always there, at least as a survival instinct - and can then be coupled with cognition to try harder to find a solution and possibly to think about why it is how it is.

*I'm pretty sure that my beardie understands that "things are done by humans". At least to the extent that when things have been good and are not just for a short while (like: lamp burned out, things have changed in the enclosure and he initially doesn't like it), he associates this with "caused by 'wormgiver', and 'wormgiver' has to make it right". How would I tell? Because he then e.g. behaves like "looking at the thing that's not good, looking at me, repeating".

 

[xp29]

I'm so sure that animals understand that.
Well, I'd say, it does not take so much for an animal to understand that. In the wild, why do we find animals in certain habitats? In certain micro-habitats (like: that lizard basking on a certain stone under which he dug a cave to quickly jump down and disappear when feeling threatened instead of just being "too lazy" for digging it, a butterfly laying its eggs not just on the next plant it can find but flies a long distance to find a very specific kind of plant that contains the right oils to make the caterpillars smell bad, an owl repurposing a rabbit burrow, a pack rat making a nest under and in a thorny plant)?
Because they feel that "this" is better than any other "that" for them.
Why do they often try so hard to gain access to certain things, like birds searching for mineral-rich soil only found in certain places? Or digging a burrow, which takes time and energy?
Being somebody's pet, they can't make choices. And this will impose even more stress - what has evolution built into them makes them to want to try even harder to finally get what they need.
Some animals might understand "this is this person's fault"*, some might interpret it as "this person is like a flock member, a pack leader, a rival that wants to get rid of me and hates me", some might "only" feel the constant "it's not right here, and I can't get away regardless as hard as I try".

So, in my opinion, despite bearded dragons possess quite good cognition, it would not even require that. Something like "this is the right condition" and "a feeling of stress and suffering makes sure to get away from places with bad condition and find the right condition even if it's hard" is always there, at least as a survival instinct - and can then be coupled with cognition to try harder to find a solution and possibly to think about why it is how it is.

*I'm pretty sure that my beardie understands that "things are done by humans". At least to the extent that when things have been good and are not just for a short while (like: lamp burned out, things have changed in the enclosure and he initially doesn't like it), he associates this with "caused by 'wormgiver', and 'wormgiver' has to make it right". How would I tell? Because he then e.g. behaves like "looking at the thing that's not good, looking at me, repeating".

I agree with that for the most part, but it doesn't explane why the two rescues were immediately more loving than all my others (I've had 7 total) the being appreciative I can associate with the better care, I.E. I was always hungry now I'm never hungry. But both rescues were not only more affectionate with us humans but with each other and even the dog. Those two would also seek each other out over everyone else in our home. None of my other beardies behave that way near as strongly as those two. That leads me to believe they have a much higher understanding than we humans give them credit for.
I don't think your wrong in any way, but I think there is a lot more to them than base needs.
Thats why I'm so passionate about trying to advance good care. We basically imprison them in our homes, I feel like it's our responsibility to make sure they feel like family not prisoners. And to provide they most beneficial habitat we can for them.

 

[ChileanTaco]

I agree with that for the most part, but it doesn't explane why the two rescues were immediately more loving than all my others (I've had 7 total) the being appreciative I can associate with the better care, I.E. I was always hungry now I'm never hungry. But both rescues were not only more affectionate with us humans but with each other and even the dog.

I could guess that they
* knew that humans do things (even when being neglected, somebody must have fed them, so learned "human does things")
* felt the stress falling away from them, being able to focus on other things.

That leads me to believe they have a much higher understanding than we humans give them credit for.
I don't think your wrong in any way, but I think thete is a lot more to them than base needs.

Then you likely misunderstand me a bit, because I agree totally with you.

For the bearded dragons, I would for sure say they have good cognition - the cognition thing, the being grateful thing I have never ruled out. I rather mean that certain things of feeling suffering is always there, for any animal: the feeling for not right conditions, stress, suffering I believe every kind of animal has to motivate it (in nature) to go and find the suitable conditions. And this is something I would attribute mostly for the suffering felt when it happens.
A bearded dragon, I think, understands things like "this person does it that way, this person does it a different way". Like: that person (who neglected them) did it that way, but other person (you!) does it that way and this is better. That's the appreciation thing. Also trust - clearly, trusting "does it right person" more than "does it wrong person".
I have also seen it in other rescue animals; my in-laws foster wildlife, small farm animals and cats. Also many years before, own pets and own foster animals.

Thats why I'm so passionate about trying to advance good care. We basically imprisone them in our homes, I feel like it's our responsibility to make sure they feel like family not prisoners. And to provide they most beneficial habitat we can for them.

Absolutely! I'm also very sure that a dragon does not just need some "basic needs" like "food, approximate right temp and lights". Actually, for most animals it's not like that. (Like you, I've tons of times said something against the "but it doesn't need more", the "has just instincts", "it wouldn't care" regarding different types of pets.) This is why I mentioned the butterfly and the specific plant, why animals chose certain burrows, the micro-habitates - as animals search out very (very) specific conditions and there is something that make them going to find them. Why sitting on that stone, avoiding another one? The animal would fit on either stone, but a certain one is preferred. Same with food - despite many things could be chomped down, certain things are preferred. Other things - animal is clearly unhappy with things that technically would be well survivable ("basic needs"), seen this tons of times. I once had to switch out, just for a day, a 100 W bulb with a 60 W bulb. Not life-threatening, temperature well in a good range, but... of course, and I had expected that. Well, he might survive if there would always be the 60 W bulb, but how he might feel?
As a pet, an animal has no or only little (out of what is provided) choice, so we must make it right.

 

[xp29]

I could guess that they
* knew that humans do things (even when being neglected, somebody must have fed them, so learned "human does things")
* felt the stress falling away from them, being able to focus on other things.


Then you likely misunderstand me a bit, because I agree totally with you.

For the bearded dragons, I would for sure say they have good cognition - the cognition thing, the being grateful thing I have never ruled out. I rather mean that certain things of feeling suffering is always there, for any animal: the feeling for not right conditions, stress, suffering I believe every kind of animal has to motivate it (in nature) to go and find the suitable conditions. And this is something I would attribute mostly for the suffering felt when it happens.
A bearded dragon, I think, understands things like "this person does it that way, this person does it a different way". Like: that person (who neglected them) did it that way, but other person (you!) does it that way and this is better. That's the appreciation thing. Also trust - clearly, trusting "does it right person" more than "does it wrong person".
I have also seen it in other rescue animals; my in-laws foster wildlife, small farm animals and cats. Also many years before, own pets and own foster animals.


Absolutely! I'm also very sure that a dragon does not just need some "basic needs" like "food, approximate right temp and lights". Actually, for most animals it's not like that. (Like you, I've tons of times said something against the "but it doesn't need more", the "has just instincts", "it wouldn't care" regarding different types of pets.) This is why I mentioned the butterfly and the specific plant, why animals chose certain burrows, the micro-habitates - as animals search out very (very) specific conditions and there is something that make them going to find them. Why sitting on that stone, avoiding another one? The animal would fit on either stone, but a certain one is preferred. Same with food - despite many things could be chomped down, certain things are preferred. Other things - animal is clearly unhappy with things that technically would be well survivable ("basic needs"), seen this tons of times. I once had to switch out, just for a day, a 100 W bulb with a 60 W bulb. Not life-threatening, temperature well in a good range, but... of course, and I had expected that. Well, he might survive if there would always be the 60 W bulb, but how he might feel?
As a pet, an animal has no or only little (out of what is provided) choice, so we must make it right.

Absolutely

 

[Rocky2022]

As any of you that know me or my beardies know, Ruby is very truely a recue. She is absolutely the most loving, warm and appreciative creature I have ever seen. She loves life and is nothing short of pure joy. Even the most timid of people can't resist her.
She was surrendered to a local reptile shop that started rehabilitating her. The person that had her before me did not provide her with proper care, supplements, and most importantly/critically proper uvb. She was paralyzed in her rear legs. She couldn't even stand to go potty and just had to sit in it when she did. She was just starting to regain use of her legs when she came to us. Unfortunately she had already developed mbd (metabolic bone disease, for the newbies) it cannot be cured. At best you can halt/slow the progression.
I have been acutely aware of her situation and needs from the day we brought her home, and I have been diligent to the extreme in her care. Despite my best efforts her mdb has continued to slowly progress. You see, Ruby's appetite has never been solid. Sometimes she will eat well for weeks or a couple months. When she does I load her with calcium, and she never has anything less than the best lighting. She can get as close as 4 inches of her uvb or as far from it as she pleases. It has always been unobstructed. BUT, there are times when for weeks she is really difficult to get to eat. During these times it's very hard to get calcium into her. As a result of this her mbd has slowly continued to progress.
She walks now but it is very disjointed and clumsy. She is as likely as not to flip herself over when she walks. If she runs it's guaranteed she will flip over. Luckily she can right herself. We took her in to the vet today for a wellness check and for an x-ray.
Thankfully the mbd has not affected her legs, hands, and wrist.
But take a look at her spine and her little ribs. THIS IS WHAT NO, POOR, OR INADEQUATE UVB DOES! It by no means is if, it is very much WHEN. If you do not provide proper and quality uvb, THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL DO TO YOUR BEARDIE! The fault and the blame will be all on you. It's as easy to prevent as taking the time to get your lighting on par. If you think I'm being aggressive, mean, rude, or trying to scare you, your exactly right. Beardies are some of the most precious, loving, and rewarding pets we can keep. They deserve to be kept by educated, devoted, and loving keepers. The things we humans do to them on a regular basis out of laziness or unwillingness to put the research in BEFORE we bring them home is absolutely inexcusable. So if I can prevent even just one beardie from suffering Ruby's fate, hook or crook so be it. There is extensive knowledge and resources on this forum make use of them. If you don't know ask. Never guess, if your guessing, chances are you will be wrong, and your beardie is the one that will suffer for it. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
So now that I have that out of my system (I was so infuriated seeing her x-ray I couldn't just let it go) please take a minute and really looks at her x-ray. You can prevent this from happening to your beardie, the knowledge on this forum gives you the power and ability to get it right the first time.

I love Ruby. Thank you for loving her

 

[Rocky2022]

You know this was a hard read for me but I'm so happy you got her.


I love Ruby

 

[xp29]

You know this was a hard read for me but I'm so happy you got her.


I love Ruby

I was so angry when I saw that x-ray. She does not deserve to be deformed like that and its so easy to prevent.
She is well loved now (at home and abroad), and she is so spoiled it's criminal lol. She started having some issues so we took her to the vet. She is on antibiotics for slightly elevated pin worm count. She is funny about eating and keeping her weight up is a challenge, but I'm giving her critical care and she actually likes it. She has also started eating bugs a little better also. She is showing good improvement but she is still having some issues with her little bottom. I'm monitoring het closely but I think she is on the mend. She has gotten lazy again and started sitting in her poop till we found her. I think that is why her bottom is irritated. I dunno why she started doing that again, she can stand and move if she wants.