Resting during the day

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Agreed. In the wild it would be different as they have to show of to win the best basking spots and mates and so on. Probably much of which is lost through captive breeding or experience while growing up in captivity.
This, but I meant something different:
In the wild, there are species (also reptile species) among which some of the males are rather defensive, to not get too much into a fight, and for those showing gender dysmorphism, as a male to not look "too much male" (for example, some fence lizards showing just a hint of blue instead of a lot of bright blue). It's like two strategies are working well:
a) Be bold, show off, fight.
b) Be rather shy, move away, don't risk a fight.
With strategy a), you will get what you can defend. It can be a lot, but you'd have to prepared it might last only for a short time.
With strategy b), you will still get a good basking spot - there are plenty, and you take one not taken yet.
With strategy b), you will get a mate - when the "big boss" looks away and considers you as weak, not a threat. With strategy b), you will also get a mate when the "big boss" guys are too injured after fighting. Or just while they fight - some animals do that: Two fight who's the biggest boss, and the third in the meanwhile... just reproduces with the female they are fighting over :D

Regarding lost through captive breeding:
In fact, I have the impression that Taco is showing more of a wild behavior than some of the dragons here in the forum. Like: Shy in the beginning, still introvert, much more an explorer than a snuggler, and with a lot "if in doubt, rather not". He slowly grew with me into being a "pet", but for months after being brought home he reminded me very much of a foster animal from the wild - that guy didn't come to beg for food, that guy instead feared taking food from me (maybe thinking it's too dangerous stealing from a big animal); he wasn't running happily towards the glass when I came in, but backed off walking around his big branch, peaking out but trying to avoid being seen. I was pretty confident he'd be okay with people after some time - I had foster reptiles from the wild and even they had been, despite I intentionally didn't interact too much with them as they were to be released, and obviously with Taco I wanted to interact as a pet - , but really, it was like I had brought in something from the wild and I remember my husband, over all not being fond of reptiles, believed that this animal would not be much fun.

Also, aggressive/ bold dragons don't seem to be rare - I was asked by the owners of the reptile store how Taco is, and whether he's aggressive grown up. (Taco was at the reptile store for about 1 month, and the owners have several reptiles as pets including at least 2 bearded dragons.)

I do not plan on breeding but I was aiming for 17°C/62°F since my office is seperate and I personally feel quite comfy at 17-18°C.
I'd also be fine at that temperature, means I would not heat to get the temperature higher, but I also would not lower the temperature intentionally by cooling; I'm fine with a variety of temperatures. (Also when we lived in California where there was air conditioning in the apartment, we rarely used it (once while moving out during summer as it was just nicer to the movers), and we used heating at other places in case temperature indoors fell below 17 °C during day. Otherwise we keep the temperature at what it is on its own and adjust with clothes, window shades, fans, airing out; room temperature varies between approx. 20 °C and a bit more than 30 °C over the year here as well as in my office on campus.)

The room where Taco's enclosure is is some kind of a dining room, living room - basically across from the kitchen, there is a dining table (and a fish tank and bookcases) and two walls are complete glass, it's like in a winter garden.
Other room (office) is separate, but no doors, and also looks the same with 2 walls completely glass.
In the office, i will put the new hissing cockroach enclosure (other tread: medium-sized fish tank, still have to make an escape-proof sliding lid) as there is a piece of furniture it exactly fits on. It will there get some light and warmth from a window behind. So far, I keep the hissing cockroaches "feeder-style", means in a plastic bin with a "lock & lock" type lid that is escape proof. Biggest issue with the hissing cockroaches is really having a lid they can't open, and so I was restricted to using a bin and it's not really transparent but that milky "transparent" plastic.
Third room is a small bedroom, in the literal sense: a room where a
 
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Chris.

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Luis and Lilith
Got you. Reading through this forum from time to time, I also had the impression that my dragons are a little bit closer to their primal selves than most of the other ones here. They don't usually come up to the glass at all other than maybe during spring time when Luis was headobbing and stomping a lot. I used to blame this on the more naturalistic setups that I got.
What I really meant though is that most of the primal Instinct and such seems to be gone for domesticated Dragons. I mean they are wild from time to time but in general they are just way to chill to have any chance of survival out in the wild.

Personally I do warm the room a bit during the winter time and cool it down during the summer time. Otherwise I would have to switch off the basking light during the summer as the room is quite small and with all the lights it gets really really warm. During the 3 months of brumation I let the room cool down naturally and only now that I slowly ramp the themps back up I heat it up during the night to around 19 or 20°C.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Got you. Reading through this forum from time to time, I also had the impression that my dragons are a little bit closer to their primal selves than most of the other ones here. They don't usually come up to the glass at all other than maybe during spring time when Luis was headobbing and stomping a lot. I used to blame this on the more naturalistic setups that I got.
Mine behaves the same (minus the head bobbing and stomping which he never (!) did so far). Could also be the naturalistic setup, but could also be how they were socialized when very small (of which I personally don't know for Taco; don't know what happened at the breeder - all animals arriving at the pet store look very healthy and well cared, but this doesn't tell about extra interaction, and at the pet store they interacted with him, he was even shown me sitting on the hand of a human) and maybe their genetics (at least they aren't a very common pet here).


What I really meant though is that most of the primal Instinct and such seems to be gone for domesticated Dragons. I mean they are wild from time to time but in general they are just way to chill to have any chance of survival out in the wild.
This, however, might also because they are used to us as being at home with humans.
(Same reason when fostering wild animals that should be released back, you shouldn't get them too much used to you. Otherwise, you'd make quite a pet out of them, despite not domesticated at least an animal that is fine with you touching it, not afraid of sudden movements anymore and such. My in-laws foster a wide variety of wildlife and they also have to take care of this; in some cases, it's then only possible to give the animal to a nature center, deer park or such, and not release it anymore. They had two young deer which they had to bottle-feed (and warm, and literally wipe their behinds), got them likely a day or two after birth. Even if they didn't intend that they became as tame as their goats - which are maybe not the tamest animals, but come for food, you can pet them... these deer became just the same, also not afraid of loud noises, not afraid of their (big) dog, not afraid of sounds of cars and such. They came to the gate hearing a particular car - Daddy is home!)

My guy Taco was just like picked up from the wild during his first months at home.
I had also the impression he feared situations around food - taking food from my hand (stealing from the big stranger!), being seen eating (others know where food is!).
He also lost his fear of birds, which he had when he was younger. He also lost his fear of things moving over his head, which he had when he was younger. Enclosure opens from the top, and I guess he has also learned that nothing can come in through glass. In the beginning, he was afraid of sudden loud noises like people sneezing; he no longer is.
Now, that's obvious, his survival skills in the wild would be less good - he backs off, he hesitates, which often would help; but he not longer would run out of fear if sudden things happen. I guess he also would be fine being around generally large animals (which we don't have, but I have the feeling that he's not longer "big = bad"). I also guess it would be easy to catch him - coming towards people clearly no, but I bet you could catch Taco even as a stranger, maybe even pick him up normally.
Personally I do warm the room a bit during the winter time and cool it down during the summer time. Otherwise I would have to switch off the basking light during the summer as the room is quite small and with all the lights it gets really really warm. During the 3 months of brumation I let the room cool down naturally and only now that I slowly ramp the themps back up I heat it up during the night to around 19 or 20°C.
In summer, I sometimes switch off one of two basking lamps (warms up well through the window and it is very bright).
During brumation, I keep the enclosure lamps on a significantly shorter schedule; normal room temperature is then around 20 °C. During night it might drop to 19 °C an then also nothing that warms up the enclosure is running.

(If it would be colder, I would have to run some CHE during night, but it's not.
Using air conditioner, I personally avoid this also for myself as I'm much more fine with a hotter room temperature and then wearing lighter summer clothes instead of hearing the constant air conditioner hum and feeling the air moving upwards ticking on all hair... and would only use it if temperatures without would be ways off, really so much off that using less heating/lamps for a pet's enclosure would not work anymore and as a human you'd feel really uncomfortable even when switching to tanktops and shorts.
In the US, I sometimes had to work in an office that had air conditioning and it was not possible to switch it off, as it was central. Found it very annoying.)
 
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Chris.

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Luis and Lilith
Exactly what I ment.
Luis was the same afraid, shy, hesitant at first and now.....once I did pic him up while he was sleeping (I lost track of time and we both driftet away for an hour or so on the couch), an he literally continued sleeping while I carried him through the whole house and sat him in his tank.....on the ground, because he was asleep and wouldn't hold on to anything🙈
Survival instinct: 0%
Feeling safe: 100%
 

NickAVD

Gray-bearded Member
Beardie name(s)
Foxy
Exactly what I ment.
Luis was the same afraid, shy, hesitant at first and now.....once I did pic him up while he was sleeping (I lost track of time and we both driftet away for an hour or so on the couch), an he literally continued sleeping while I carried him through the whole house and sat him in his tank.....on the ground, because he was asleep and wouldn't hold on to anything🙈
Survival instinct: 0%
Feeling safe: 100%
This is exactly how I put Foxy to bed. :LOL:
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Survival instinct: 0%
Feeling safe: 100%
I was never picking him up while asleep (he sleeps in his enclosure, towards the back, often in a cave, and I just would not be able to get him without literally dragging him out). Outside of his enclosure, he snuggles 1 - 5 minutes and then goes walking around, until he feels cold and then I put him back up to his basking spot and later depending on the time he might go down in a cave to sleep.

But what I recognized: Changed licking behavior.
When he was younger and I started getting him used to be picked up (first just inside of the enclosure, and back down on his branch after 5 - 10 seconds), he licked everything once he was back in. Really walking rounds like checking a territory, for some 15 minutes, methodically licking at almost each step. After that was done, he relaxed and basked. Even when he was just picked up by me, inside the enclosure, and put back down and realistically, I would not had any chance sneaking in another animal.
Over time, his behavior changed to only "walk patrol" when he was really outside of the enclosure, and then only when he was in another room, where I as a human would say: Yes, one would have had a chance sneaking in a different animal in the meanwhile.
Now, when I put him back in, even after an hour outside: No licking. He goes on one of his two basking spots, lies down, pancakes.
He does lick things outside of his enclosure (a bit, looks more like curiosity and not like "walking patrol"), he rarely walks a round in his enclosure for licking and if, by far not that methodically anymore, and he never licks anymore after being put back in. This is exactly: Feeling confident that no bad things like another animal taking over his territory will happen, and just feeling safe.
 
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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
I was never picking him up while asleep (he sleeps in his enclosure, towards the back, often in a cave, and I just would not be able to get him without literally dragging him out). Outside of his enclosure, he snuggles 1 - 5 minutes and then goes walking around, until he feels cold and then I put him up.

But what I recognized: Changed licking behavior.
When he was younger and I started getting him used to be picked up (first just inside of the enclosure, and back down on his branch after 5 - 10 seconds), he licked everything once he was back in. Really walking rounds like checking a territory, for some 15 minutes, methodically licking at almost each step. After that was done, he relaxed and basked. Even when he was just picked up by me, inside the enclosure, and put back down and realistically, I would not had any chance sneaking in another animal.
Over time, his behavior changed to only "walk patrol" when he was really outside of the enclosure, and then only when he was in another room, where I as a human would say: Yes, one would have had a chance sneaking in a different animal in the meanwhile.
Now, when I put him back in, even after an hour outside: No licking. He goes on one of his two basking spots, lies down, pancakes.
He does lick things outside of his enclosure (a bit, looks more like curiosity and not like "walking patrol"), he rarely walks a round in his enclosure for licking and if, by far not that methodically anymore, and he never licks anymore after being put back in. This is exactly: Feeling confident that no bad things like another animal taking over his territory will happen, and just feeling safe.
I've noticed similar behavior in mine. As they get older they test stuff by licking a lot less.
And as you said more like curiosity than anything.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Taco
@xp29
Did yours also lick everything in the enclosure immediately after being put back (even when just been picked up inside and not really having left the enclosure) when younger?
If yes, also in a what that seems to be to check whether there might have been another reptile?
That would be interesting to know :)
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
@xp29
Did yours also lick everything in the enclosure immediately after being put back (even when just been picked up inside and not really having left the enclosure) when younger?
If yes, also in a what that seems to be to check whether there might have been another reptile?
That would be interesting to know :)
I didn't notice them doing that specifically. If I had them out they would lick a couple things but didn't really go on patrol. It was more like they where reassuring themselves they where back in familiar territory.
Zsa Zsa will still usually lick her driftwood a time or two when I put her back. (If the lights are still on) most of the time she is out with me till after their bed time.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Taco
I didn't notice them doing that specifically. If I had them out they would lick a couple things but didn't really go on patrol. It was more like they where reassuring themselves they where back in familiar territory.
Zsa Zsa will still usually lick her driftwood a time or two when I put her back. (If the lights are still on) most of the time she is out with me till after their bed time.
Thanks for sharing :) Taco went so much on patrol that it was a running joke between us. Like "officer Taco on patrol" :D

(If the lights are still on) most of the time she is out with me till after their bed time.
That also might be a difference. I take Taco out usually for half an hour after 5pm if I come home from work early if he likes, otherwise on days I have off or work from home (weekend or other days) whenever he likes, could be around noon, could be early morning. Now in summer could also be after dinner, but he'll be back long before sunset/ his lamps go out. It's really not a routine. His bedtime is always quite the same, but his "resting, not available right now" times, or otherwise "not available" times could differ widely.
I had, for example, yesterday shown him briefly during an online meeting (2pm) as I currently work from home (last week I also tried to show him, but no way), and today he wasn't out of his enclosure at all.
When he was younger, and it was just lifting him up for a moment and setting him back, I did the same - whenever I could reach him and he was in a mood to want out or, younger, at least accepted it.
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
Thanks for sharing :) Taco went so much on patrol that it was a running joke between us. Like "officer Taco on patrol" :D


That also might be a difference. I take Taco out usually for half an hour after 5pm if I come home from work early if he likes, otherwise on days I have off or work from home (weekend or other days) whenever he likes, could be around noon, could be early morning. Now in summer could also be after dinner, but he'll be back long before sunset/ his lamps go out. It's really not a routine. His bedtime is always quite the same, but his "resting, not available right now" times, or otherwise "not available" times could differ widely.
I had, for example, yesterday shown him briefly during an online meeting (2pm) as I currently work from home (last week I also tried to show him, but no way), and today he wasn't out of his enclosure at all.
When he was younger, and it was just lifting him up for a moment and setting him back, I did the same - whenever I could reach him and he was in a mood to want out or, younger, at least accepted it.
I get my guys out randomly also through the day when I'm home. Zsa Zsa is the only one I really see testing stuff. And like I say it's just a couple quick licks, half the time she completely misses her target.
The night time routine they get accustomed to pretty fast, they're grumpy the next day if they miss it too.
 

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