Possible seizure, update possible stroke, vet visit, plzhelp

[jazmatazxo]

Hiya so sorry for the essay in advance but I really need some.help, I'm new here so grateful to have found this forum, I have been reading and reading for days but wanted to make my own post as nothing quite fits. My happy -ususally boy is Basil, he is 4 and never had any health issues as far as I'm aware. Set up is good, I'll state as I know everyone asks, Arcadia 12% UV strip bulb which was replaced less than 3m ago, and 100watt basking bulb, hot end reaches between 37-41c depending on time of day and cold end averages around 26c, however I do not have a hygrometer so unsure of humidity. He was on kitchen roll as substrate but I've taken it out as I'm paranoid that could be a reason he got sick, I'm not sure what to replace it with yet. Had tiles before and found tiny red bugs when taking them out one day to clean, freaked out and lizard friendly antibaced everything immediately and chucked the tiles away. His fav salad is peashoots and he has these daily along with fruit here and there but I always check if giving him something new online that it's okay, he has live bugs every other day, mainly morioworms (,super worms) and waxworms for treats.

Basil (I believe) had a seizure on Thursday morning. He was lethargic Wednesday, but I was at work so didn't see if he was any different the rest of the time. When I got home from work I realised he hadn't eaten any worms or salad, his dish was still full. He ate salad Tuesday and worms and salad Monday, also had a bath and pooped on Monday as normal. When I woke up his light had been on for approx 30 mins. He was walking in circles kinda jerkily so I went to watch him, as I did he went jet black and opened his mouth wide and threw his head back arching his back and was twitching and thrashing about for what felt like a whole minute but was probably around 20 seconds max. As soon as he's stopped I opened his Viv to get him out and he tried to run away but he couldn't use his front or back legs properly and was kinda wiggling his body to move. He looked quite hunched up and his limbs were all tight to his body like constricted like he couldn't stretch them out. I wanted to leave him alone as he looked in pain so I called the vet and started googling.. I was concerned for MBD as this is main cause of seizures in beardies and demanded the reptile specialist see him right away as I feared he would die if he did not get treated. They fit us in for 3 hours time. He didn't appear to have any more seizures but he did have some back legs muscle spasms which the vet witnessed. They decided to keep him in for tests. They did full x-ray which did not indicate that MBD was present. They did blood tests and sent off poop sample test as he pooped for them in examination, gave him morphine and calcium injection as well as some other things and told me they would have blood results back next day. The bloods concluded he had no deficiencies so ruled out MBD, the only abnormality was a low white blood cell count and he was a lil bit underweight, but he's never been a greedy dragon. By this time (over 24hours later) he had full use of his arms and legs back but was not moving around much, apart from when they bathed him and he tried to escape (he hates them so much). She was happy for me to collect him and prescribed meds for me to administer at home (twice daily bath in reptoboost, once daily oral pain killer and antiinflammatory, once daily oral calcium/vitamin supplement and once every 3 days antibiotic injection) she said low white blood count indicates infection but they don't know if it's viral or bacterial.. I shed out over £400 for this vet trip and they can't even tell me the type of infection he has or what caused the seizure, they suggested either pain or some neurological problems.. so I'm.a bit p*ssed off, though the specialist vet was very nice. We came home Friday night and he's much better but I'm concerned, he is clamping his jaw tightly so I can't open it to administer his oral meds, I have tried every trick on YouTube and Google, the eye thing, pulling the side beard/lip area to get it in the side first, squeezing 3cm along from.his nose on mouth crease, even pulling his beard skin which the vet showed me but I felt horrible trying as I can feel.how much he is clamping shut, he tries to get away and I don't want to cause him more unnecessary stress. So we have so far missed 2 days worth of pain relief and supplement and he hasn't eaten or drunk either. Tried tempting him with chicken and squash baby food and also sweet apple baby food and he isn't the slightest interested. He is much more alert, he will stand up and move around his Viv a little so seems more comfortable, but hard to tell if he is. Still in pain. If he's.not then I feel the painkillers isn't worth the stress I'm.causing him by trying to open his mouth. He also isn't swollen anywhere so the anti inflammatory seems not too important either. And I'm assuming the vet just prescribed the supplement to boost his recovery as the bloods didn't show that he was deficient. Is it worth keep trying to get these oral meds in? I have to do the first injection tomorrow and I'm terrified but I know this is the most important one and the vet showed me how to do it on his upper arm under a scale, he didn't flinch when she showed me, but he was dosed up then and more still, where as now he is moving around way more so I'm worried it will hurt him or he will flinch, I hate needles so I'm trying not to project my fear. I have read I could inject the oral meds into a waxworm however he won't even eat them. I'm.hoping he will just get hungry soon, but realistically it's nearly been a week already. Will his appetite return? He is awake most of the day which is a good sign, but he closes his eyes most of the time when I get him out to hold and I never know if this means he's comfortable or annoyed/tolerating the handling. He's hated his baths and seems tired after from trying to climb out. He's also started today putting his head into the corner of his Viv at the cold end and closing his eyes, so I'm not sure if he's trying to go to sleep?

Please can anyone give me any advice? I'm so worried and really stressed. We are also moving house tomorrow and this couldn't have come at a worse time as i know this will cause him extra stress. I literally don't know what to do and I'm so skint now after the vet bill. And moving costs, if the vets take him back it's approx £100 per 24 hours for their care and I just can't. Going to call them for advice tomorrow re oral meds but hoping someone here will have had some similar experiences to share.

Thanks in advance.

How can I attach photos?

 

[KarrieRee]

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post --
Next does your UVB have a reflector on the fixture - next where in the tank is the UVB? Is it on top of the screen or inside the tank ?
We are going to need Tracie to look at your post she is the vet tech on here -- what are you giving for pain killer and how much? List all the meds and how much your giving so Tracie can help you
Next you can go in from the side of his mouth pry it open w/ either the syringe or have some one hold him and pull his bottom lip down and then pry open his mouth -- just administer slow - little at time so he does not aspirate the med--
Kitchen roll are you talking like shelf liner? Did the kitchen roll have adhesive on the bottom of it
the insects you were seeing are probably from the fruit -- called fruit flys-- the tile was good --
Your dragon is not feeling good if hes in the cold corner of the tank -- you need to keep him warm so he can keep his immune system up -- do you have a CHE ? I would use it at nite to keep his temps up around 80 at nite --- Tracie can help more she is on at nite --
Karrie

 

[jazmatazxo]

Thanks Karrie for a quick response. I think I've uploaded some pics, his set up and where he has been going into the corner.. when I put him back in his Viv I pop him on his log to warm up but he won't stay there too long. His bulb has no reflector and I used to have it on the back wall as there are clips there for it but he used to attack it sometimes so I moved it to the front wall of the Viv, it goes most of the way along. Honestly he will not open his mouth I've tried it all and I can feel.he is tense and clamping his jaw shut, I think he is feeling traumatised from.the vets the kitchen roll I don't use adhesive on, just change it every other day or sooner if it gets dirty from poop or anything. Also forgot to mention that I do use calcidust on his live food. I don't have a che but I could get one for sure if it would help. The meds he's been prescribed are as follows -

Fortum injection 0.06ml once every 3 days for 5 doses (keep in fridge)
Loxicom 0.06ml orally once daily for a week
Zolcal 0.3mls orally once daily for 5 days then twice a week
Reptoboost - as explained on pot bath twice daily, rinse and dry

Also put the blue towel there incase he went there again to sleep to try give him a little more wqrmt or comfort but he's just fallen asleep now lights are off on his stone rock between shelves.

 

[jazmatazxo]

Here are some better close ups of him from this evening before I posted. He is having a slow shed so parts of him are due to shed hence lighter parts on top of head and on limbs, back spikes.

 

[KarrieRee]

I am assuming your in the UK ? What is the distance of the UVB right now? I was going to say something about maybe not enough UVB but it looks really close for no reflector and maybe a good distance -- so you wouldnt need a reflector and they did check for MBD so now I am thinking not needing it -- most on here and we usually recommend reflectors because the distance is too far away and not doing any good but yours seems to be okay--- you dont want it 4" -- it needs to be like 6" --- I would recommend getting a reflector tho and moving it -- just as a safety measure --- if you want to do that I can post a website to get one --- the basking temps are good I would try and increase your daytime up to 80 if you can -- I would get a hygrometer and place it on the back wall of your tank in the middle -- we need to have Tracie help you out on this
From your pics he doesnt look like hes doing so good --- the meds are going to effect his appetite -- as long as hes eating some thats good -- is your tank on the floor ?
Karrie

 

[jazmatazxo]

Yes sorry I am in UK. His daytime temps in farenheit hot end are 96-106 we use celcius here, and cold end in farenheit are 78-83 usually. His UV tube light is around 6-8inches from him when he is on shelves, I will move it to the back wall. So is closer but I don't know if this is too close as you say and it really doesn't sound like MBD is the issue from x-ray and blood results. Hopefully Tracie can advise more, it is 9pm here in UK now, what is the time difference? Also he's not eating anything. I don't think he has eaten a thing since Tuesday and it's now Sunday night. My tank has been on the floor for about 2 months only, as of tomorrow it will be back on a unit, I can post updated pics tomorrow afternoon. I will try to get a che and a hygrometer tomorrow. Thanks so much for responding to my absolute essay x

 

[AHBD]

Aw, poor babe has gone through a terrible ordeal. This sounds like a stroke, causes are not always known. Years ago a prominent breeder that posted here had this happen to a cherished beardie and the symptoms were very similar. You can cut out the baths, they are stressful and of no use. Beardies do not absorb water through their vents. The only thing you can do to try to get a little something in him is to experiment with all sorts of variety of things to lightly rub on his lips for a few seconds at a time. Anything from baby food to raw honey to a bug that's had it's guts squished out. Smooshed strawberry, blueberry, etc. Anything including the Repto boost. Just to get him to lick something, a short try without irritating him. This is very serious but I wish you the best..

 

[jazmatazxo]

Omg I didn't know they could have strokes!! Thanks for your message AHBD. Do you have any advice on the oral meds? Obviously if I can find something he is willing to take food wise this could make it easier for me to get the syringe in but he is really really not wanting to open for me.. I don't know if it's worth the extra stress for him for me to keep trying? I don't want to hurt him. If I try to get his Viv hotter he should open his mouth to regulate temperature right, is this a good idea or could be more dangerous to mess with temps?

 

[jazmatazxo]

And would you suggest that he is putting his face in the corner could be neurological damage from seizure or stroke?

 

[AHBD]

I don't know, you wouldn't want to get it too hot when he's not in condition to get out of the spot or perhaps can't even feel the temps. due to his condition. It may be a very difficult thing to deal with all around. My heart goes out to you really. I'll see if I can find the old thread but it was long ago. Tracie will be on later in the day and may have some helpful advice. Oh yes, going to the corner could be from the neuro problem.

 

[jazmatazxo]

Ok I'm not gonna mess with temps as I anticipate that moving tomorrow is already going to cause him some stress :'( I'm beside myself I don't want to lose him but things feel like they are not looking good thank you so much for your replies, I will be up all night praying Tracie has a miracle trick or piece or advice to try! I have a bad gut feeling he is not going to make it

 

[KarrieRee]

Karrie

 

[AHBD]

If you could get him to lick anything that would be the time to sneak the anti-inflammatory in his mouth quickly Grape juice, honey, anything. Is he moving at all , walking ? I know everything points to a bad outcome we never know when an animal or human can recover from even serious medical issues. Give it time and see how he does. Be super gentle and slow when picking him up or doing anything.

 

[jazmatazxo]

Yes he has regained movement in all his limbs and will walk now, he's just lethargic still. He moves around his Viv just not much and he will go from my arm up my chest for a snuggle into my neck. I shaved my head a few months ago from it being long and I think he misses getting tangled up in it! Physically he is doing so much better, it's just the not eating or drinking anything and not being able to get medication in him that I'm so worried about.

 

[AHBD]

Oh O.K., that's a really good thing then ! He may really have a chance to recover with or without the meds. He should eat again at some point, give it some time. And he's not thin at all so has fat reserves to keep him going.