Possible impaction and I only just noticed, got some urate and poo today, thought he brumating

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
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Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
This is about Quetzal. About 5 year old male, adopted August 7th, 2022. Last vet visit September 7th, 2022. It seemed like starting November 1st he was starting his brumating. Appetite loss and spending time in his hide a week on/week off.

Possibly pointless background info: I was told he brumates "deeply" and found his former person on Facebook and stalked them to look at anything they added found their TikTok but that's a different thing since it seemed they stopped using social media about the same time they surrendered Quetzal so I couldn't reach them to ask for more details.

I might be a stalker, I found Quetzal's previous veterinary clinic and have retrieved his old records so I will call that clinic when they open to double check if they missed anything on a history of impaction.

O K ! Moving on...

Examining Quetzal today I found a lump in his abdomen. It was semi solid and movable upon palpation. He also got into 'gonna poop' pose palpating the mass. Urate and poop came out. Some mass is still remaining in the middle of his abdomen. Poop has no odor, some calcification on the urate. His last meal was about Nov 1st and he had pooped in the middle of November.

516 grams weight. Replaced 14% T5 Arcadia UVB tube 2/3 lengthen of enclosure. Zoo Med white heat bulb hot spot 105°F. His activity seemed to increase with the replaced UVB bulb so I wasn't sure (again) if this was really brumation. Since he hides a week then comes out a week. He will drink water if I drop on his nose.

His behavior was upset but cooperative with palpating the stomach. Black bearded and stress lines when palpating. Also looks to be starting to shed since he is getting lighter in color so I think I will consider his brumating over at this point.

❓ Should I try feeding him olive oil until I can get him into the vet? Or force feed olive oil?

I'm not sure how long he's been impacted. Had to start between Sept 7th and Nov 1st.

His behavior has been overall normal but I assumed he was brumating - if he was hiding because he was impacted then my assessment was wrong. Loss of appetite but no weight loss. Basking when awake 12 hour days. He is disabled but with water walking therapy he has improved tail motion when out of water (he can hold up about half his tail when moving before he dragged the entire tail). Hind limbs are still 'lame' by definition but he can walk and kick in water - he moves hind limbs when walking even though they support no weight.
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 5 and Blaze is 3
This is about Quetzal. About 5 year old male, adopted August 7th, 2022. Last vet visit September 7th, 2022. It seemed like starting November 1st he was starting his brumating. Appetite loss and spending time in his hide a week on/week off.

Possibly pointless background info: I was told he brumates "deeply" and found his former person on Facebook and stalked them to look at anything they added found their TikTok but that's a different thing since it seemed they stopped using social media about the same time they surrendered Quetzal so I couldn't reach them to ask for more details.

I might be a stalker, I found Quetzal's previous veterinary clinic and have retrieved his old records so I will call that clinic when they open to double check if they missed anything on a history of impaction.

O K ! Moving on...

Examining Quetzal today I found a lump in his abdomen. It was semi solid and movable upon palpation. He also got into 'gonna poop' pose palpating the mass. Urate and poop came out. Some mass is still remaining in the middle of his abdomen. Poop has no odor, some calcification on the urate. His last meal was about Nov 1st and he had pooped in the middle of November.

516 grams weight. Replaced 14% T5 Arcadia UVB tube 2/3 lengthen of enclosure. Zoo Med white heat bulb hot spot 105°F. His activity seemed to increase with the replaced UVB bulb so I wasn't sure (again) if this was really brumation. Since he hides a week then comes out a week. He will drink water if I drop on his nose.

His behavior was upset but cooperative with palpating the stomach. Black bearded and stress lines when palpating. Also looks to be starting to shed since he is getting lighter in color so I think I will consider his brumating over at this point.

❓ Should I try feeding him olive oil until I can get him into the vet? Or force feed olive oil?

I'm not sure how long he's been impacted. Had to start between Sept 7th and Nov 1st.

His behavior has been overall normal but I assumed he was brumating - if he was hiding because he was impacted then my assessment was wrong. Loss of appetite but no weight loss. Basking when awake 12 hour days. He is disabled but with water walking therapy he has improved tail motion when out of water (he can hold up about half his tail when moving before he dragged the entire tail). Hind limbs are still 'lame' by definition but he can walk and kick in water - he moves hind limbs when walking even though they support no weight.
With that poop I would say hes not impacted -- hes semi brumating -- I would not feed olive oil since hes pooping and w/ him not eating hes not going to poop much if at all -- I would continue the water therapy w/ him and get the UVB inside the tank if its not and the distance for a 14% bulb should be 17-18 inches directly above the basking decor piece -- UVB bulb should be changed out in 10-11 months
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I agree, he shouldn't be impacted but sometimes they can be backed up. Perhaps the old owners
fed him when he was down too much & he didn't digest properly.
Do you know if he had any UVB light, or not?
Since he seems to have some weakness in his back legs, but can still move, you probably should
limit his brumation time. I would get a nice strong UVB light, & some liquid calcium to help him out
right now. It seems like he may be having some calcium issues perhaps.
Hind leg weakness is an early precursor to metabolic bone disease so it's best you get it taken care
of as soon as possible.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
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Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
@Drache613 The lameness is caused by a known spinal injury. My vet also suspects his UVB was previously inadequate so the spinal injury did not heal as best as it possibly could have.

He was rehabbed before I adopted him and I had my vet check his labs on 9/7/22. Fecal was negative from smear check for parasites.

Ca : P ratio 3.75:1

Calcium 10.5 mg/dL
Phosphorus 2.8 mg/dL
Sodium 152 mEq/L
Potassium 4.3 mEq/L
Chloride 117 mEq/L
CPK 476 IU/L
Uric Acid 8.8 mg/dL (I want this lower)
Total protein 3.5 g/dL
Albumin 2.1 g/dL
Globulin 1.4 g/dL
SGOT (AST) 22 IU/L
BUN 2 mg/dL
Glucose 205 mg/dL

My vet thought his bloodwork was indicative of chronic inflammation related to his past spinal injury. I'm still getting the previous vet records. Spine injury may be 2 years old. Quetzal is apparently 6 years old (the adoption center was told 4 years old but that wasn't accurate)

WBC estimate 5.7 (1000/uL)
HCT30%
Heterophils2,736
Bands 0
Lymphocytes 1938
Monocytes 0
Eosinophils 0
Basophils0
Azurophilic Monocytes1,026
Thrombocyte estimate adequate
No toxic changes -
RBC morphologynormal
No blood parasites-
View media item 65220
It's clear that his spine is fused from the damage and likely low UVB/mild MBD from past care during the injury timeframe.

@KarrieRee 17 inches from UVB inside the enclosure no obstacles or obstruction for basking spot, further in other places. New as of a few days ago, it was due soon enough so I replaced it early
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 5 and Blaze is 3
@Drache613 The lameness is caused by a known spinal injury. My vet also suspects his UVB was previously inadequate so the spinal injury did not heal as best as it possibly could have.

He was rehabbed before I adopted him and I had my vet check his labs on 9/7/22. Fecal was negative from smear check for parasites.

Ca : P ratio 3.75:1

Calcium 10.5 mg/dL
Phosphorus 2.8 mg/dL
Sodium 152 mEq/L
Potassium 4.3 mEq/L
Chloride 117 mEq/L
CPK 476 IU/L
Uric Acid 8.8 mg/dL (I want this lower)
Total protein 3.5 g/dL
Albumin 2.1 g/dL
Globulin 1.4 g/dL
SGOT (AST) 22 IU/L
BUN 2 mg/dL
Glucose 205 mg/dL

My vet thought his bloodwork was indicative of chronic inflammation related to his past spinal injury. I'm still getting the previous vet records. Spine injury may be 2 years old. Quetzal is apparently 6 years old (the adoption center was told 4 years old but that wasn't accurate)

WBC estimate5.7 (1000/uL)
HCT30%
Heterophils2,736
Bands0
Lymphocytes1938
Monocytes0
Eosinophils0
Basophils0
Azurophilic Monocytes1,026
Thrombocyte estimateadequate
No toxic changes-
RBC morphologynormal
No blood parasites-
View media item 65220
It's clear that his spine is fused from the damage and likely low UVB/mild MBD from past care during the injury timeframe.

@KarrieRee 17 inches from UVB inside the enclosure no obstacles or obstruction for basking spot, further in other places. New as of a few days ago, it was due soon enough so I replaced it early
Ok so the 17 is good then
 

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
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Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
I am worried. The mass initially was central in the abdomen.

Now if I had to describe it the mass is in his upper left quadrant - to use human terms. Upper right and lower right are deflated/seemingly normal. Lower left quadrant is seemingly normal but more defined than lower right quadrant. The upper left, maybe the stomach?, still has a discernable mass. Food in his stomach? Substrate ? I have some loose substrate but also tile and shelf liner. I'm taking out the loose substrate for the moment. I know substrate is controversial and I only wanted to provide a digging area and something easier on his body his drags around

Drank some water assisted in a bath. He still black beards when palpating the mass : (
 

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
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Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
At the vet. It's seems highly likely to be a tumor

Most likely in or attached to the stomach

Getting new bloodwork. Stomach tumors can come with high blood sugar so the bloodwork may reveal some of that
 

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
Photo Comp Winner
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
Oh so it's looking very bad. Very bad

Doing some quick bloodwork. His red blood cell volume was 6% which is very bad. Should be at least 20-50% blood volume (edit/ vet meant this is his hematocrit level, she said red blood cell level at first which kinda same kinda not. So 6% hematocrit)
 
Last edited:

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh poor guy, inadequate UVB definitely contributes to bone issues!
Are you giving him black or tart cherry juice extract for help with the uric acid levels?
The overall blood test results don't look too bad. The phosphorus could come down
some but insects naturally have phosphorus.
Be sure to keep his basking platform low to where he doesn't have to climb very much.
Hopefully if there is a tumor that it is benign. It seems like a lot of them are developing
tumors.

Is he eating very well right now?

Let us know how things are going.
Tracie
 

DorgEndo

Sub-Adult Member
Photo Comp Winner
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Devlyn
Hello,

Oh poor guy, inadequate UVB definitely contributes to bone issues!
Are you giving him black or tart cherry juice extract for help with the uric acid levels?
The overall blood test results don't look too bad. The phosphorus could come down
some but insects naturally have phosphorus.
Be sure to keep his basking platform low to where he doesn't have to climb very much.
Hopefully if there is a tumor that it is benign. It seems like a lot of them are developing
tumors.

Is he eating very well right now?

Let us know how things are going.
Tracie
That was the old blood test. We had been doing tart cherry and I can say that got his uric acid down from the new test (from yesterday now). His phosorus is currently unreadable low. Estimated his WBC is 50,000+. I had them run the results in house so it was eyeballs on a slide instead of a machine reader. I saw the priliminary numbers but I don't remember everything. Mostly things seemed low except WBC counts

He woke up today. His vet was concerned this was his crashing and he might pass overnight because the hematocrit was so low yesterday. Beardies hide it well.

Last night he took most of a serving of herbivore critical care (1/2 dry tablespoon rehydrated) and 0.2mL metacam. Tramadol has been ordered but will take a few days or today if things go perfect. He needs to eat, drink, and take his meds. Thankfully he is much more agreeable to syringe feeding than Devlyn is and he takes from a syringe with little fuss
 

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