Pheobe's gross poop mystery

DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
Hi!

My girl Phoebers is 2 years old now and I have a concern about her feces. A couple months ago she started having more loose stool, kind of a little undigested and I was concerned. I have my girl trained to poop whenever I give her a bath, but she had started having more "accidents" as I like to call them, and it was almost as if she could even control her own bowels at some points. I got blessed with a very clean dragon, she actively avoids getting dirty at all costs and even refuses to relieve herself in her cage not wanting to dirty it, so when she kept doing it randomly I knew something was up. Her urate was fine but her feces was always smelly and loose and would come with a fair amount of liquid that was either clear, tinted yellow-green or sometimes brown. That was the only symptom of something wrong she was having, no lethargy, eating like a pig, very normal behaviour and alert, never stressed. I was doing research and I thought that it might be a parasite, since she does enjoy the occasional live insect treat, but she wasn't showing any other symptoms except for the loose stool so I was confused.

But, it did concern me, so, I took her to the vet about a month ago and for starters they called her fat :LOL: and said she had to lose a 50-100 grams. She's only 16 inches and stunted so I guess it makes sense, a smaller beardie can't be as heavy as a normal adult bigger one. I got a fecal done and the results came back as pinworms, which I was told was pretty common in beardies and often could go untreated, but I guess they found the numbers high enough to mention to me....? anyways, I did two weeks worth of medication and she stopped having her "accidents", which I was happy about, less cleaning for me. But, I guess I was under the impression that the medication would cure her of the loose stool, only to be surprised when her stool now is the exact same it was before she took the meds. She only gets fed every second day now to help her shed a few grams, mostly salads with arugula, carrots and butternut squash. She gets 20 crickets about once or twice a week, which are blanched and frozen with the occasional mealworm or hornworm treat. Her temps are 110 F and 90 F and she has a basking bulb and two UVB bulbs, one with her basking light and another tube one. I do notice that she prefers to be cooler compared to other dragons, she has since she was a baby, so she doesn't bask a lot directly but she does sit on her heat rock occasionally. She's very happy, alert and feisty. She jumps and plays with her toys, runs around and watches her fish tank beardie TV every day and I don't think she even notices what I do. She also loves candy, she's stolen it right out of my hand multiple times but the last time was at least two months ago so I don't think that's the issue, she sleeps like a log in her plush bed for the princess she is, so no issues there (I know, she's spoiled to death:)) But, I really can't think of what could be causing this gross feces. I've gone through her diet, her temps and her UVB, a potential parasite now that's been treated and she doesn't show any other signs of being sick or upset and I'm just stumped.

She also had major surgery and had her ovaries removed because of a chronic egg laying genetic condition a year ago (The reason she is stunted), so I start to wonder if she has some sort of other genetic abnormality with her digestion maybe? no clue

I wonder if it's possible that this is just the way she is...? I read that some beardies just naturally have gross feces even though they are completely healthy. Maybe there's something else I should check and see what's causing the issue. The vet didn't appear concerned for her at all and said she was in very good health, it's just this one thing that's driving me crazy. I don't mind cleaning up after her, but I'm just worried that she's not feeling well, as reptiles are known to hide when their sick pretty well, or if there's a way I can help fix it. I just don't want her in any discomfort or bad digestion if I can avoid it. I would appreciate anyone's advice. Thanks!
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Hi!

My girl Phoebers is 2 years old now and I have a concern about her feces. A couple months ago she started having more loose stool, kind of a little undigested and I was concerned. I have my girl trained to poop whenever I give her a bath, but she had started having more "accidents" as I like to call them, and it was almost as if she could even control her own bowels at some points. I got blessed with a very clean dragon, she actively avoids getting dirty at all costs and even refuses to relieve herself in her cage not wanting to dirty it, so when she kept doing it randomly I knew something was up. Her urate was fine but her feces was always smelly and loose and would come with a fair amount of liquid that was either clear, tinted yellow-green or sometimes brown. That was the only symptom of something wrong she was having, no lethargy, eating like a pig, very normal behaviour and alert, never stressed. I was doing research and I thought that it might be a parasite, since she does enjoy the occasional live insect treat, but she wasn't showing any other symptoms except for the loose stool so I was confused.

But, it did concern me, so, I took her to the vet about a month ago and for starters they called her fat :LOL: and said she had to lose a 50-100 grams. She's only 16 inches and stunted so I guess it makes sense, a smaller beardie can't be as heavy as a normal adult bigger one. I got a fecal done and the results came back as pinworms, which I was told was pretty common in beardies and often could go untreated, but I guess they found the numbers high enough to mention to me....? anyways, I did two weeks worth of medication and she stopped having her "accidents", which I was happy about, less cleaning for me. But, I guess I was under the impression that the medication would cure her of the loose stool, only to be surprised when her stool now is the exact same it was before she took the meds. She only gets fed every second day now to help her shed a few grams, mostly salads with arugula, carrots and butternut squash. She gets 20 crickets about once or twice a week, which are blanched and frozen with the occasional mealworm or hornworm treat. Her temps are 110 F and 90 F and she has a basking bulb and two UVB bulbs, one with her basking light and another tube one. I do notice that she prefers to be cooler compared to other dragons, she has since she was a baby, so she doesn't bask a lot directly but she does sit on her heat rock occasionally. She's very happy, alert and feisty. She jumps and plays with her toys, runs around and watches her fish tank beardie TV every day and I don't think she even notices what I do. She also loves candy, she's stolen it right out of my hand multiple times but the last time was at least two months ago so I don't think that's the issue, she sleeps like a log in her plush bed for the princess she is, so no issues there (I know, she's spoiled to death:)) But, I really can't think of what could be causing this gross feces. I've gone through her diet, her temps and her UVB, a potential parasite now that's been treated and she doesn't show any other signs of being sick or upset and I'm just stumped.

She also had major surgery and had her ovaries removed because of a chronic egg laying genetic condition a year ago (The reason she is stunted), so I start to wonder if she has some sort of other genetic abnormality with her digestion maybe? no clue

I wonder if it's possible that this is just the way she is...? I read that some beardies just naturally have gross feces even though they are completely healthy. Maybe there's something else I should check and see what's causing the issue. The vet didn't appear concerned for her at all and said she was in very good health, it's just this one thing that's driving me crazy. I don't mind cleaning up after her, but I'm just worried that she's not feeling well, as reptiles are known to hide when their sick pretty well, or if there's a way I can help fix it. I just don't want her in any discomfort or bad digestion if I can avoid it. I would appreciate anyone's advice. Thanks!
What a spoiled little girl --- :) ok please tell us what your using for a UVB how old is it -- is it a coil or tube ? Basking temps what are they and how are you getting them? We will start there -- has a second fecal been done to see if the parasites are gone?
 
I’m not the best to answer or question it although I’ll do my best from the knowledge I have of my previous beardie.
I see she’s got her eyes closed in one photo is that after being pet on the head or during night time? How often or when does she sleep?
In terms of food, does she get lots of undigested chunks? For example if you feed her bell peppers or pellets. Did the vet mention anything about the spay (like the ovaries were deformed)? Does she open her mouth randomly exhaling through the mouth?
I really hope it’s not the same abnormality mine had.
 

DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
What a spoiled little girl --- :) ok please tell us what your using for a UVB how old is it -- is it a coil or tube ? Basking temps what are they and how are you getting them? We will start there -- has a second fecal been done to see if the parasites are gone?
She has one 10.0 Thrive Desert coil and 1 10.0 Thrive Desert tube bulb, their probably 4 months old. We've been using them a long time and never had ay issues. Her temps are usually 105-100 hot and 90-80 cold, I get them from a heat gun. No, she hasn't had a second fecal done. I'm a uni student so I'm a bit strapped for cash, but I can save up for one if it's necessary
 

DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
I’m not the best to answer or question it although I’ll do my best from the knowledge I have of my previous beardie.
I see she’s got her eyes closed in one photo is that after being pet on the head or during night time? How often or when does she sleep?
In terms of food, does she get lots of undigested chunks? For example if you feed her bell peppers or pellets. Did the vet mention anything about the spay (like the ovaries were deformed)? Does she open her mouth randomly exhaling through the mouth?
I really hope it’s not the same abnormality mine had.
That picture was taken during bed time, she basically sleeps when I sleep, 7-10 hours a day.

Yes, there are partially undigested parts of her food. There will be pieces of carrot and arugula sometimes.

The vet didn't mention the spay at all. The spay was due to chronic egg laying, she would lay 30-35 eggs every two weeks. She started when she was ten months and had over 150 eggs before I managed to get the money for surgery. I actually saw the ovaries myself after they had been removed and I don't think they were deformed in respect to the actual physical organ, but they were entirely covered in egg follicles in different stages of growth so they were pretty big, at least triple the size they should have been.

Actually, now that you say that random exhaling, she does puff out her beard every now and then and open her mouth, maybe once a week. It's like she's trying to stretch and remove shed from her beard but there's no shed. I thought nothing of it, she can be a little spazzy sometimes 😂, she doesn't struggle to breathe at all.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
She has one 10.0 Thrive Desert coil and 1 10.0 Thrive Desert tube bulb, their probably 4 months old. We've been using them a long time and never had ay issues. Her temps are usually 105-100 hot and 90-80 cold, I get them from a heat gun. No, she hasn't had a second fecal done. I'm a uni student so I'm a bit strapped for cash, but I can save up for one if it's necessary
Please get rid of the Thrive UVB -- they are no good and this could be the issue w/ the poop but mainly shes not getting any UVB --- I cannot stress this enough -- I am going to post what you need for a UVB -- lets work on this first then see what the poop does -- either one of these are the best at this time
24" Arcadia ProT5 12% UVB Bulb With Hood you want the 12% bulb
24" Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Hood this comes w/ a 5.0 bulb keep for a back up the distance and placement will be different from the bulb you want 22" Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB T8 this is for a tank of 40 + gallon --
Please get this first thing -- your dragon needs this to be healthy --
Next the undigested bugs tell me the heat temps are not high enough -- how are you getting the temps? they need to be surface temps taken w/ a digital probe thermometer -- place the probe on the spot where she sits for basking wait 10 min or so then get that temp -- you want two of those --- 90-80 is too hot for the cools side of the tank - you want 80's for cool side and 90's in the middle of the tank -
this bulb is for heat 10.0 Thrive Desert coil ???? another issue for heat and off poops -- You need a solid clear bright white basking bulb like this example Exo Terra® Intense Basking Spot Light | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
or this Zoo Med Reptile Basking Spot Lamp | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
No daytime bulbs they have a coating on them the neodymium coating which is a rare earth mineral, decreases the CRI or Color Rendering Index which affects the overall brightness. It does this by
cutting the yellow color range out to make it appear brighter but since reptiles are very sensitive to light & can see more of the spectrum than we can it is best to use a bright white light for basking
instead.
Thrive bulbs are not a good bulb --- when you get your UVB replaced please post back on here and I will help you set it up for your tank -- they have certain distance and placement this will depend on the screen your using
 
That picture was taken during bed time, she basically sleeps when I sleep, 7-10 hours a day.

Yes, there are partially undigested parts of her food. There will be pieces of carrot and arugula sometimes.

The vet didn't mention the spay at all. The spay was due to chronic egg laying, she would lay 30-35 eggs every two weeks. She started when she was ten months and had over 150 eggs before I managed to get the money for surgery. I actually saw the ovaries myself after they had been removed and I don't think they were deformed in respect to the actual physical organ, but they were entirely covered in egg follicles in different stages of growth so they were pretty big, at least triple the size they should have been.

Actually, now that you say that random exhaling, she does puff out her beard every now and then and open her mouth, maybe once a week. It's like she's trying to stretch and remove shed from her beard but there's no shed. I thought nothing of it, she can be a little spazzy sometimes 😂, she doesn't struggle to breathe at all.
Hmmm, if those aren’t passing correctly I’m a little concerned. This kind of gives me answers for something else but that depends if it leads into that. If she is puffing her beard like that and not “frilling” it (a skirt form thingy made at the lower beard) and opening her mouth this could lead into a respiratory issue/infection.
In terms of UVB I highly suggest Arcadia, it is vet recommended and has a longer lifespan.
I can’t tell by the photo on the condition of her mouth. The best way I find to check without doing damage is to put your thumb and pointer finger on both sides of her face. Both should be on the lips behind the eyes, hold the bottom jaw and shimmy it open the rest of your thumb and finger to hold the head. Not sure if it made sense but basically it’s done with one hand. Depending on how much she trusts you she may or may not bite.
 

DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
Hmmm, if those aren’t passing correctly I’m a little concerned. This kind of gives me answers for something else but that depends if it leads into that. If she is puffing her beard like that and not “frilling” it (a skirt form thingy made at the lower beard) and opening her mouth this could lead into a respiratory issue/infection.
In terms of UVB I highly suggest Arcadia, it is vet recommended and has a longer lifespan.
I can’t tell by the photo on the condition of her mouth. The best way I find to check without doing damage is to put your thumb and pointer finger on both sides of her face. Both should be on the lips behind the eyes, hold the bottom jaw and shimmy it open the rest of your thumb and finger to hold the head. Not sure if it made sense but basically it’s done with one hand. Depending on how much she trusts you she may or may not bite.
I think it's frilling, it looks more like a skirt. She doesn't really open her mouth, it's more like she's just stretching her neck muscles. The only time she really opens her mouth is when she's hot or she's yawning, it looks like the photo. There's nothing wrong with her mouth, at least I don't think so. I brush her teeth once a week and everything is nice and pink
 

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DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
Please get rid of the Thrive UVB -- they are no good and this could be the issue w/ the poop but mainly shes not getting any UVB --- I cannot stress this enough -- I am going to post what you need for a UVB -- lets work on this first then see what the poop does -- either one of these are the best at this time
24" Arcadia ProT5 12% UVB Bulb With Hood you want the 12% bulb
24" Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Hood this comes w/ a 5.0 bulb keep for a back up the distance and placement will be different from the bulb you want 22" Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB T8 this is for a tank of 40 + gallon --
Please get this first thing -- your dragon needs this to be healthy --
Next the undigested bugs tell me the heat temps are not high enough -- how are you getting the temps? they need to be surface temps taken w/ a digital probe thermometer -- place the probe on the spot where she sits for basking wait 10 min or so then get that temp -- you want two of those --- 90-80 is too hot for the cools side of the tank - you want 80's for cool side and 90's in the middle of the tank -
this bulb is for heat 10.0 Thrive Desert coil ???? another issue for heat and off poops -- You need a solid clear bright white basking bulb like this example Exo Terra® Intense Basking Spot Light | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
or this Zoo Med Reptile Basking Spot Lamp | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
No daytime bulbs they have a coating on them the neodymium coating which is a rare earth mineral, decreases the CRI or Color Rendering Index which affects the overall brightness. It does this by
cutting the yellow color range out to make it appear brighter but since reptiles are very sensitive to light & can see more of the spectrum than we can it is best to use a bright white light for basking
instead.
Thrive bulbs are not a good bulb --- when you get your UVB replaced please post back on here and I will help you set it up for your tank -- they have certain distance and placement this will depend on the screen your using
I thought that might have been the problem. I've used Thrive bulbs for about a year now and I don't see the difference, but I've always wondered if she could need a stronger one. She doesn't have any signs of MBD or anything so I thought they would be fine. She also doesn't have any mesh where her bulbs are, she doesn't run away or anything so I don't see the need, she's chill with open concept 👍. She has an infrared heating bulb in a double dome with her UVB coil so that she gets UVB while basking, and a separate UVB tube bulb is what I meant. No, I don't use the UVB bulb for heating. I just find that the infrared gets way hotter than the other zoo med regular basking bulbs I used to use and I live in a basement so it gets a little cold so the extra heat helps. She only has a 40 gallon because she doesn't like a large space. Even when I was moving her from her 20 to her 40 when she got bigger, she threw a tantrum and I'd find she'd crawled back in her old one before I got rid of it. she's a smaller beardie and I do move a lot and have to take it with me alone when I do. I intend on getting her a bigger one once I don't have to move anymore, but she's always seemed to like smaller spaces which is weird but it works.
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I thought that might have been the problem. I've used Thrive bulbs for about a year now and I don't see the difference, but I've always wondered if she could need a stronger one. She doesn't have any signs of MBD or anything so I thought they would be fine. She also doesn't have any mesh where her bulbs are, she doesn't run away or anything so I don't see the need, she's chill with open concept 👍. She has an infrared heating bulb in a double dome with her UVB coil so that she gets UVB while basking, and a separate UVB tube bulb is what I meant. No, I don't use the UVB bulb for heating. I just find that the infrared gets way hotter than the other zoo med regular basking bulbs I used to use and I live in a basement so it gets a little cold so the extra heat helps. She only has a 40 gallon because she doesn't like a large space. Even when I was moving her from her 20 to her 40 when she got bigger, she threw a tantrum and I'd find she'd crawled back in her old one before I got rid of it. she's a smaller beardie and I do move a lot and have to take it with me alone when I do. I intend on getting her a bigger one once I don't have to move anymore, but she's always seemed to like smaller spaces which is weird but it works.
Are you using a infrared like this Exo Terra® Infrared Basking Spot | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
Both of the bulbs are not any good --- the coil UVB's are terrible and basically shes getting no UVB -- she may look healthy now as dragons will hide their illness and one day you might find her walking funny shaking the head having tremors etc--- the coil UVB's do not help them absorb their calcium and we have seen so many dragons on here that have been under coils and are horribly sick -- the infrared bulbs produce a light that causes blindness and other eye issues -- I cannot stress this enough to get rid of both of them you want a solid clear bright white basking bulb for basking and a long tube fixture for a UVB-- w/ the basement getting cold at night I recommend getting a Ceramic Heat Emitter goes in a dome and produces no light only heat -- please change the out -- this is good reason for the runny poop your getting-
this is what our vet tech has advised on another post on here
the compact/coil UVB light.
It is much easier to be proactive with care now, to avoid health problems in the future. If they don't receive adequate UVB over time, they will develop metabolic bone issues which cause them a myriad of health problems. So, it's best to get the proper UVB lighting, initially to help avoid health problems& to have a happier & healthier dragon.
 
I think it's frilling, it looks more like a skirt. She doesn't really open her mouth, it's more like she's just stretching her neck muscles. The only time she really opens her mouth is when she's hot or she's yawning, it looks like the photo. There's nothing wrong with her mouth, at least I don't think so. I brush her teeth once a week and everything is nice and pink
Ah that, yeah that behaviour with the beard is normal. If it was like the beard was a balloon from chin to neck then I would be worried.
The yawning, I know my late sick female did it, I’ve seen a video of another female yawning. My current male beardie has never yawned. Maybe it’s a female beardie thing that is neither good or bad.
Good to know her mouth is nice and pink.
My late beardie had the same digestive issue, this gives me answers to her turn downhill during treatment, it also raises more questions. I’d request an X-ray or ultrasound from the vet, it might be something strange happening.
 
Beardie name(s)
Spike
Yep I’m hoping that doesn’t happen to my bearded dragon
 

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DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
Are you using a infrared like this Exo Terra® Infrared Basking Spot | reptile Bulbs & Lamps | PetSmart
Both of the bulbs are not any good --- the coil UVB's are terrible and basically shes getting no UVB -- she may look healthy now as dragons will hide their illness and one day you might find her walking funny shaking the head having tremors etc--- the coil UVB's do not help them absorb their calcium and we have seen so many dragons on here that have been under coils and are horribly sick -- the infrared bulbs produce a light that causes blindness and other eye issues -- I cannot stress this enough to get rid of both of them you want a solid clear bright white basking bulb for basking and a long tube fixture for a UVB-- w/ the basement getting cold at night I recommend getting a Ceramic Heat Emitter goes in a dome and produces no light only heat -- please change the out -- this is good reason for the runny poop your getting-
this is what our vet tech has advised on another post on here
the compact/coil UVB light.
It is much easier to be proactive with care now, to avoid health problems in the future. If they don't receive adequate UVB over time, they will develop metabolic bone issues which cause them a myriad of health problems. So, it's best to get the proper UVB lighting, initially to help avoid health problems& to have a happier & healthier dragon.
I'll change the bulbs as soon as I can and see if the issue gets cleared up
 

DerangedLava

Member
Original Poster
Ah that, yeah that behaviour with the beard is normal. If it was like the beard was a balloon from chin to neck then I would be worried.
The yawning, I know my late sick female did it, I’ve seen a video of another female yawning. My current male beardie has never yawned. Maybe it’s a female beardie thing that is neither good or bad.
Good to know her mouth is nice and pink.
My late beardie had the same digestive issue, this gives me answers to her turn downhill during treatment, it also raises more questions. I’d request an X-ray or ultrasound from the vet, it might be something strange happening.
I'll have to look into an x ray or an ultrasound in the future if it doesn't get cleared up by changing her bulbs, I'll keep that in mind. Thank you!
 

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