New beardie...upside down?

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My girl just got a new beardie a few weeks ago.
And she's done quite a bit or research before buying one. And got the full kit with the basking bulb, UV bulb and night bulb and all that good stuff.
He's seemed fine, until today. She apparently walked into the room to find the little guy laying upside down.
Anyone know what could be the cause of this?

Any help would be great. It's a very young one. Like, maybe between 3-4 inches.

Thanks.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Maybe ate a cricket that was too large and then had spasms/ seizures. Or maybe low blood calcium. Could he have gotten close enough to the basking bulb to have been burned ?
 

Thndrandlitning5

Member
Original Poster
Doubt it was a large cricket. She only feeds him small, and they are tiny.
Don't know if the calcium is the issue, she gives him the calcium supplement, and the bulb is actually hanging up. So there's no way for it to have gotten close enough to be burnt. The closest thing for it to climb on is about 3-31/3 inches from the lid, and the bulb is hanging about an inch away from the lid.

It may be impaction, no? She has the calci-sand, so I'm thinking that was it.
I warned her not to use it, but she wanted to anyway.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh yes, that's a possibility. Give him some warm, 1" baths, closely supervised, and a little olive or veg. oil, applesauce or strained prunes baby food.
 

coastergirl946

Hatchling Member
No bulb should be used at night. Those disturb their sleep.. if you need more heat, use a ceramic heat emitter.. heat rocks and heat mats can burn their bellies and cause severe damage.

Calcium sand is the worst possible substrate you can use. It can impact your dragons and kill them.. when ingested, it basically hardens into a cement-like lump in their bodies and it is nearly impossible (not to mention very painful) for them to pass. Curt was in so much pain after passing one of his sand impactions that he collapsed in my hands and stopped breathing for several seconds. I didn't get much sleep that night.
Please remove the sand and use paper towels until you can get repti-carpet, or non adhesive shelf liner. Loose substrates have a long history of causing internal damage and death to bearded dragons and many other reptiles.
 

Thndrandlitning5

Member
Original Poster
She turns them off at night. She has a night bulb for night time that gives of no light, just heat. Well, there's a small amount of light, but barely.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

It really sounds like it is going to be a calcium problem.
What type & brand of UVB light are you using, a tube bulb or a compact/coil light?
If no UVB light is used then he will have a hard time absorbing calcium without UVB light.

Tracie
 

coastergirl946

Hatchling Member
Bearded dragons aren't like humans, they don't need a "night-light" per se, for during their sleep.
Any light at night that they can see will disturb their sleep and make them tired during the day, which can lead to them not wanting to eat or bask, and that is not what you want for your pet.

A ceramic heat emitter gives off heat but no light. This is the most suitable and harmless way to keep your dragon's enclosure from dipping below 65 degrees at night. It doesn't need to be on during the day, just at night if it gets too chilly.
 

Thndrandlitning5

Member
Original Poster
I'm not sure what brand it is, but it's a UV bulb.
And the night light is mostly for heating, it gives of very, very, minimum light. It's one of those black ones. More light shines through the windows from the moon, then this gives off.
 

coastergirl946

Hatchling Member
Grogshla":29p9jhvw said:
please be careful dragons find it very hard to breathe on their backs.

Grog is right. Bearded dragons do not have diaphragms, so when they are on their back long enough, their lungs collapse and they can stop breathing long enough to die.
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
Thndrandlitning5":31qx7nis said:
And the night light is mostly for heating, it gives of very, very, minimum light. It's one of those black ones. More light shines through the windows from the moon, then this gives off.
coastergirl946":31qx7nis said:
Bearded dragons aren't like humans, they don't need a "night-light" per se, for during their sleep.
Any light at night that they can see will disturb their sleep and make them tired during the day, which can lead to them not wanting to eat or bask, and that is not what you want for your pet.

A ceramic heat emitter gives off heat but no light. This is the most suitable and harmless way to keep your dragon's enclosure from dipping below 65 degrees at night. It doesn't need to be on during the day, just at night if it gets too chilly.

Agreed. If you want to provide heat at night, I would suggest a ceramic heat emitter. But that's only really necessary if temperatures at night drop to 65 degrees Fahrenheit at night. It also may not be associated with visible light; it could very well be a different type of light being emitted. Even though it emits very little visible light, the primary concern is the type of light being emitted (that may not be visible to human eyes); some black lights provide UV-A, which is unnecessary during the night, and can cause eye damage, if not sleep disturbances. If it is indeed a safe night light, please just be sure to keep an eye on your bearded dragon, particularly if he seems tired during the day, or closes one eye at a time, or both eyes for extended periods of time.

Thndrandlitning5":31qx7nis said:
I'm not sure what brand it is, but it's a UV bulb.

It's very important to know what kind of brand it is, and what type of bulb it is. Can you confirm either? Can you at least confirm whether it is a coil bulb, tube type bulb, or a mercury vapor bulb? Not all UV bulbs work the same, and many have had health issues or improper UVB output associated with them. Also, I know you mentioned how close he could get to the basking bulb (heat-source), but how close can he get to the UVB light source?

Thndrandlitning5":31qx7nis said:
Oil in the bath? Or have him drink it?
Also, how often should the baths be? Once a day?

You can administer a few drops of oil (vegetable, flax, or olive) in pure applesauce (without additives, added sugar, cinnamon, etc.), and place a few drops of the sauce on his snout, and hopefully he will lick it off.

Different people will suggest different bathing schedules: some everyday, some every other day, some three times a week, others once a week, a whole range in between. The important thing is to gauge your bearded dragon's health and hydration; young bearded dragons are prone to dehydration. You can test for whether or not your bearded dragon is hydrated by observing the skin on his back. If it is particularly wrinkled and/or does not "pull back" after being gently pinched, he may be dehydrated. If the skin is taught, he is most likely well hydrated. If you are worried about him being impacted, or if he is in a time of shedding, more frequent baths can be administered.

And last, but not least, the calcium sand should be replaced with a non-particulate substrate, such as paper towels, newspaper, reptile carpet, non-adhesive shelf liner, or tile.
 

Thndrandlitning5

Member
Original Poster
Unfortunantly, the little guy didn't make it through the night. He was dead by the time morning came around.
She's extremely upset about it. Lesson learned the hard way, I guess.
Told her from the beginning not to use the sand, but she was told by a few people that it was safe enough to use "Calci-sand".
I, myself, have 2 very healthy (seem to be anyway, lol) leopard gecko's, and had the same substrate debate when getting them. Went with the carpet cause I'd never intentionally harm my little buddies, or put any potential hazards in there.

I do appreciate all the help given, though.

It was weird cause it just started acting weird yesterday, not too long before finding it laying upside down. After picking him up, she said he seems fine. But she bathed him and massaged his stomach, and seemed to be a little better. Woke up and he wasn't breathing. :(
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
I am so sorry for you and your girlfriend's loss. I hope she doesn't stay upset for too long, though I can understand how it must feel. Hopefully a lesson was learned, at least, and that the bearded dragon is in a better place. I also hope that you and/or your girlfriend will continue to ask questions and seek advice if you should ever get another bearded dragon.
 
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