New Beardie doesn't seem well

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
New Beardie owner and new to the forums.

We bought Ziggy from a pet store a few days ago and Im feeling like they didn't prepare us that well for any issues that might arise. He is around 6 months old. Last 48 hours he is very sleepy and not moving much. He opens his eyes sometimes for a quick check and then closed again. Didnt eat much yesterday and hasn't pooped in 48 hours.

We bought this kit and set it up the day before we picked up the dragon: Exo Terra : Bearded Dragon Starter Kit / Starter Kit for Young Bearded Dragons

I didnt use the sand mat at the advice of one of the pet store workers and bought a reptile carpet instead. I made him a cave out of some rocks that I washed in boiling water but he doesn't really use the cave. I had some drift wood that I cleaned very well but I found out it was pine so I removed it after a day. I also have a water dish that came with the starter set, a hammock and some tiles in one area. At the pet store he was in a tank with two of his brothers with no cave, just a hammock and a light and a water dish and some veggies in a bowl. They also kept the tank very wet by spraying it down a couple times a day. The moisture in there was very visible.

The set I bought came with a dual purpose mercury bulb that provides UV and heat. I also have a small fluorescent tube light on the colder side for some extra light. I believe my temps are ok? Average daily temp at mid tank is around 78-79F, cold side is around 75F and under the basking light is around 100F. He stays mostly at the edge of the hammock and not directly under the light but near it. I believe I originally had the light too close. I originally measured the temp under the light after it had been on for only an hour and it was right around 100F but I checked the temp again yesterday and it was quite hot so I raised the light a bit. I assume the new bulb hadn't reached full temp when I measured the first time. Humidity is around 20-25% most of the time but its been dry here lately.

First couple days I think we were bit too excited about him and we were handling him a bit too much. We also have a dog and I think it spooked Ziggy a bit just having the dog nearby. He seems a little sketchy when the dog was near but we have been keeping the dog away from the tank. Im sure Ziggy can still hear the dog barking upstairs sometimes though. First two days he was eating well (veggies and Crickets) and he was having a fairly large bowel moment every day (mostly solid, some liquid and some white goo in there). We bathed him once in clean warm water. I haven't seen him actually drink any water yet.

He seemed fairly active and alert for the first few days but now he's usually just laying in one spot at the edge of the hammock not directly under the light but close enough that its shining on him. He never goes over to the cold side that I have seen. Always has his eyes closed unless he quickly opens them to see what's happening when Im opening the enclosure or when I add the crickets he will look around a bit and eat a few but won't chase them at all. He ate a few crickets yesterday (not as many as he usually did) but wouldn't go for the veggies at all. I usually give him some parsley, Romain lettuce, carrots and yellow peppers. We gave him a little kiwi and strawberries one day too. No bowel movement yesterday at all.

I believe he is too young for brumation and it hasn't really been enough time to tell if he's impacted from what I have read. Visually he looks ok color-wise and he holds his head up during the day but has his eyes closed almost all the time. Im a little scared to handle him right now in case he is really stressed. Doesn't appear to have any black on his throat or lines on his belly but Im going to check again today.

Could his lack of eating, drinking and activity the last couple days be due to all the new stuff he's experiencing the last few days? (New home, changes to enclosure items, not sharing an enclosure, new faces, new sounds, dog in the vicinity, temp/humidity differences from the pet store tank, too much handling etc.)

Im super worried. I would hate anything to happen to him. We love him already and I would feel so bad If I screwed this up. Its not fair to the store that raised him for 6 months and not fair to Ziggy to be healthy and then suddenly feeling bad under our care. Im doing my best to make sure the setup, food and temps are good but seeing him look so lethargic is worrisome and I fear I have done something wrong. Going to a vet isn't an imminent option at the moment.

Any advice would be great. Im suppose to get a call from the pet store today or tomorrow from a lady that has a few dragons of her own and she said she also has the same enclosure I bought. No one else at the store seems to be much help so I haven't reached out to them.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Poor little guy. I hope he feels better soon. He could be stressed out and just tired from the changes. If that's the case he should be able to bounce back. As far as kits go, this one doesn't look too bad to begin with. I think the main thing worth focusing on is the lighting/temps.

The Solar Glo bulb that came with the kit is a step up from older kits in some ways, but it does have a major drawback. The combo lights need to be set at a certain height in order to provide adequate UVB exposure over the basking area. You can't control the temperatures independently. It's important to have an accurate reading of the surface temperatures (a digital thermometer with a probe - or two- is best for this) and be able to adjust as needed. With the 125w Solar Glo, it needs to be around 12'' or so above the main basking area. Probably more like 8-10 if you're shining it through a mesh top which will intercept some of the UVB. The second part of that, is you want the surface temps in the basking area to be somewhere in the 95-105 range(ish). Areas around that should be in the 90s, and the cool side surface should be somewhere in the mid 70s-low 80s during the day. That gradient will allow Ziggy to move around and get what he needs at a given time. It's easier to make these adjustments using a combination of a T5 fluorescent tube style UVB and a halogen or incandescent flood light bulb to produce heat and bright white light. Having the UVB and heat sources separate will allow you to set the UVB at a proper height, and tweak the heat as needed.
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
Poor little guy. I hope he feels better soon. He could be stressed out and just tired from the changes. If that's the case he should be able to bounce back. As far as kits go, this one doesn't look too bad to begin with. I think the main thing worth focusing on is the lighting/temps.

The Solar Glo bulb that came with the kit is a step up from older kits in some ways, but it does have a major drawback. The combo lights need to be set at a certain height in order to provide adequate UVB exposure over the basking area. You can't control the temperatures independently. It's important to have an accurate reading of the surface temperatures (a digital thermometer with a probe - or two- is best for this) and be able to adjust as needed. With the 125w Solar Glo, it needs to be around 12'' or so above the main basking area. Probably more like 8-10 if you're shining it through a mesh top which will intercept some of the UVB. The second part of that, is you want the surface temps in the basking area to be somewhere in the 95-105 range(ish). Areas around that should be in the 90s, and the cool side surface should be somewhere in the mid 70s-low 80s during the day. That gradient will allow Ziggy to move around and get what he needs at a given time. It's easier to make these adjustments using a combination of a T5 fluorescent tube style UVB and a halogen or incandescent flood light bulb to produce heat and bright white light. Having the UVB and heat sources separate will allow you to set the UVB at a proper height, and tweak the heat as needed.
Thank you so much for the quick reply. I get a little long winded writing things out but I wanted to be as thorough as possible.

I was kinda skeptical buying that kit but I have invested in it now so Im going to do my best to make it work until I need to upgrade. If I had done more research I probably would have just bought everything separately and built my own setup. Live and learn I guess. I do really like the tank though because it has front doors rather than having to reach from above. At the moment I think the light is almost exactly 12" from the basking spot so I think it should be ok for now? It does have to go through the mesh though so hopefully he's getting the UV that he needs. I could lower the light a slight bit but I don't want to melt the screen frame and its a bit too hot on the basking area when its any closer. My house can get a bit cold in the summer when we have the AC going so by then I think I will have to change the lights to what you suggested.

When I went home for lunch today he was still sleeping in his usually spot but he woke up when I put some crickets near him. He actually chased a couple and ate some so I think he's on track to feeling better. No veggies yet but I will see later. Still closing his eyes a bit but Im still learning what's normal for them. Gave him little spray too because his tail is shedding a bit. We are going give him little bath this evening. Maybe he was just recuperating yesterday from a stressful weekend being in a new place?

Thanks again for your advice. Now that I have joined this forum I will be on here a bunch.
 

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CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It's encouraging that he chased some crickets! He looks happy in that last photo you posted. Nice bright white beard.

I have the 18'' tall version of the enclosure you have and can give you some tips that might help. It certainly is nice to have the front opening doors. In the past I found that crickets like to hide in the wire channels behind the foam background. It's best to feed crickets just a few at a time in batches so that you can (both) track them more easily. If you find that space is getting limited, you can remove the foam and leave it blank or put a photo background there instead.

The screen top comes off easily so if you don't have other animals in the house (especially cats) that can get into the enclosure, you can try just removing the screen to let more UVB through and see how he reacts. You'll also want to make sure the "furniture" is low enough that he can't climb out and probably remove the foam background if you do this because they can climb the foam. Another thing I found is that if you put some foil over the plastic cross pieces, it helps protect them from being melted by the heat of the basking light (found that out the hard way too). Might be worth a shot if you need the lamp to go closer. Here's how I have mine set up in case you want a reference. It's certainly not the only or best way to do it, just what works in my case. One image has a 36'' T5 UVB across the front of the enclosure. The other has a smaller 24'' T5 that is at a diagonal over the basking area. The dome on the left is the basking light and the dome on the right is a heat projector that kicks in overnight when needed.

76248-4037503768.jpg

76248-9137766766.jpg
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
Awesome tips. Thank you. Probably leave the mesh on for now but I will keep that in mind. I will absolutely be adding the foil like you suggested though. I actually added some rolled up pieces of reptile carpet into those channels at the top of the foam to keep the crickets from going in there. They like to hid in the rocks that I have in there though so its a bit on an issue. Might have to just get a solid dome for a cave.
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
It's encouraging that he chased some crickets! He looks happy in that last photo you posted. Nice bright white beard.

I have the 18'' tall version of the enclosure you have and can give you some tips that might help. It certainly is nice to have the front opening doors. In the past I found that crickets like to hide in the wire channels behind the foam background. It's best to feed crickets just a few at a time in batches so that you can (both) track them more easily. If you find that space is getting limited, you can remove the foam and leave it blank or put a photo background there instead.

The screen top comes off easily so if you don't have other animals in the house (especially cats) that can get into the enclosure, you can try just removing the screen to let more UVB through and see how he reacts. You'll also want to make sure the "furniture" is low enough that he can't climb out and probably remove the foam background if you do this because they can climb the foam. Another thing I found is that if you put some foil over the plastic cross pieces, it helps protect them from being melted by the heat of the basking light (found that out the hard way too). Might be worth a shot if you need the lamp to go closer. Here's how I have mine set up in case you want a reference. It's certainly not the only or best way to do it, just what works in my case. One image has a 36'' T5 UVB across the front of the enclosure. The other has a smaller 24'' T5 that is at a diagonal over the basking area. The dome on the left is the basking light and the dome on the right is a heat projector that kicks in overnight when needed.

76248-4037503768.jpg

76248-9137766766.jpg
Couple other things wanted to ask you. How often do beardies usually poo? He hasn’t had one in a couple days but he didn’t really eat a whole lot yesterday. He ate some greens and peppers and a few crickets today so hopefully that will get things moving. He’s still a little lethargic until you kinda wake him up a bit and he hangs out for a short bit while he eats crickets and moves around a little but then he just heads back to sleep. I gave him a quick bath but he was just laying there and closing his eyes so I made it quick. Maybe he wasn’t feeling comfortable. He’s only 6-7 months old so I would assume he’s not brumating? It’s currently really cold where we live (-25 Celsius) so I wonder if he can somehow sense the time of year even though tank the temperatures are fine and he can’t really see outside? Either that, or he’s still adjusting. He doesn’t seem sickly at all other than sleeping a lot.
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
Poor little guy. I hope he feels better soon. He could be stressed out and just tired from the changes. If that's the case he should be able to bounce back. As far as kits go, this one doesn't look too bad to begin with. I think the main thing worth focusing on is the lighting/temps.

The Solar Glo bulb that came with the kit is a step up from older kits in some ways, but it does have a major drawback. The combo lights need to be set at a certain height in order to provide adequate UVB exposure over the basking area. You can't control the temperatures independently. It's important to have an accurate reading of the surface temperatures (a digital thermometer with a probe - or two- is best for this) and be able to adjust as needed. With the 125w Solar Glo, it needs to be around 12'' or so above the main basking area. Probably more like 8-10 if you're shining it through a mesh top which will intercept some of the UVB. The second part of that, is you want the surface temps in the basking area to be somewhere in the 95-105 range(ish). Areas around that should be in the 90s, and the cool side surface should be somewhere in the mid 70s-low 80s during the day. That gradient will allow Ziggy to move around and get what he needs at a given time. It's easier to make these adjustments using a combination of a T5 fluorescent tube style UVB and a halogen or incandescent flood light bulb to produce heat and bright white light. Having the UVB and heat sources separate will allow you to set the UVB at a proper height, and tweak the heat as needed.
It's encouraging that he chased some crickets! He looks happy in that last photo you posted. Nice bright white beard.

I have the 18'' tall version of the enclosure you have and can give you some tips that might help. It certainly is nice to have the front opening doors. In the past I found that crickets like to hide in the wire channels behind the foam background. It's best to feed crickets just a few at a time in batches so that you can (both) track them more easily. If you find that space is getting limited, you can remove the foam and leave it blank or put a photo background there instead.

The screen top comes off easily so if you don't have other animals in the house (especially cats) that can get into the enclosure, you can try just removing the screen to let more UVB through and see how he reacts. You'll also want to make sure the "furniture" is low enough that he can't climb out and probably remove the foam background if you do this because they can climb the foam. Another thing I found is that if you put some foil over the plastic cross pieces, it helps protect them from being melted by the heat of the basking light (found that out the hard way too). Might be worth a shot if you need the lamp to go closer. Here's how I have mine set up in case you want a reference. It's certainly not the only or best way to do it, just what works in my case. One image has a 36'' T5 UVB across the front of the enclosure. The other has a smaller 24'' T5 that is at a diagonal over the basking area. The dome on the left is the basking light and the dome on the right is a heat projector that kicks in overnight when needed.

76248-4037503768.jpg

76248-9137766766.jpg
Sorry to bother you again. I have a question about lights as well if you don’t mind.

That Exo terra solar glo bulb has been a bit inconsistent so far. For the first few days I had it probably 8” from the basking spot and it was only getting temps of around 92F. It seemed to be getting a little bit hotter every day so I raised the light a little bit to around 10” but when I checked today it was around 110F in the basking spot! That seems like a big change over just a few days and likely too hot for him. Ziggy hasn’t been sitting directly under the light much, always off to the side a bit so I assume it was too hot in the direct light? Could his lethargy be from lack of UVB? I moved the light to around 12” from the basking spot now and I’m going check the temp tomorrow and see where it’s at. Now that I have the light 12” away I’m worried he won’t get the UVB he needs because of the screen top in the way but I have the low profile tank so I don’t really want to take the screen off. I currently have an 18” Sunblaster T5 on the cooler side of the enclosure for extra light because the solar glo doesn’t light the entire enclosure that well. The T5 is also outside the enclosure above the mesh. Would I be able to mount the T5 inside the enclosure? Is there an issue using the T5 and the solar glo at the same time or is that too much light? Is there such a thing as too much UVB?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
As far as their pooping schedule goes, it really kind of varies based on their age, metabolism, and individual routine. Younger dragons will often go more than once a day. Older dragons go less frequently (in general). They go more often when they are in a phase of eating more (higher metabolism). Some of them go daily as adults. Some every other day. Some every week. It really kind of depends on that point and comes down to routine and what seems normal against their own history/routine.

They also go through cycles in which they are a bit sleepier or less energetic. It's not necessarily brumation though. They tend to be a bit groggy in the mornings as well. This isn't a problem in itself, but keep a log of his weight so you can track how that is trending over time. Weight loss can be an early indication of an underlying problem.

The temps will fluctuate a bit depending on the bulb and ambient temps. The bulbs usually tend to "break in" after a while and then kind of stabilize in their heat and UVB output. You may need to keep tweaking it a little for now though. I wouldn't worry too much about 110. He'll just sit off to the side if it's too hot. As long as there is a good gradient available, I'd prioritize having the bulb closer for proper UVB exposure.

18'' Is one of the smaller sunblasters. What kind of bulb do you have in it? If it's the standard 6400k grow light bulb it will produce light but not UVB or much heat. You can set that inside if you'd like to, but that will depend on visual light preference. If you have a UVB bulb in it you can use it in conjunction with the Solar Glo, but I'd arrange it so that there are still some areas of little or no UVB. Usually putting it over the basking area or along the front or back of the enclosure (gradient along the depth) will work. That's why I put my 36'' T5 along the front. The UVB output drops towards the back of the enclosure.
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
As far as their pooping schedule goes, it really kind of varies based on their age, metabolism, and individual routine. Younger dragons will often go more than once a day. Older dragons go less frequently (in general). They go more often when they are in a phase of eating more (higher metabolism). Some of them go daily as adults. Some every other day. Some every week. It really kind of depends on that point and comes down to routine and what seems normal against their own history/routine.

They also go through cycles in which they are a bit sleepier or less energetic. It's not necessarily brumation though. They tend to be a bit groggy in the mornings as well. This isn't a problem in itself, but keep a log of his weight so you can track how that is trending over time. Weight loss can be an early indication of an underlying problem.

The temps will fluctuate a bit depending on the bulb and ambient temps. The bulbs usually tend to "break in" after a while and then kind of stabilize in their heat and UVB output. You may need to keep tweaking it a little for now though. I wouldn't worry too much about 110. He'll just sit off to the side if it's too hot. As long as there is a good gradient available, I'd prioritize having the bulb closer for proper UVB exposure.

18'' Is one of the smaller sunblasters. What kind of bulb do you have in it? If it's the standard 6400k grow light bulb it will produce light but not UVB or much heat. You can set that inside if you'd like to, but that will depend on visual light preference. If you have a UVB bulb in it you can use it in conjunction with the Solar Glo, but I'd arrange it so that there are still some areas of little or no UVB. Usually putting it over the basking area or along the front or back of the enclosure (gradient along the depth) will work. That's why I put my 36'' T5 along the front. The UVB output drops towards the back of the enclosure.
Thanks again. Thats unfortunate that my T5 bulb isn't a UVB. After searching online it looks like they don't make an 18" T5 reptile bulb for my Sunblaster fixture. I can only find 12" and 22". Looks like I may need to invest in a another light or pull the screen from the top of the enclosure.

Ziggy still hasn't gone poo and its been 3 days. He's bit more alert and active today but still pretty docile. He's still eating pretty good. I gave him a warm bath at lunch today so hopefully there is something in his enclosure when I get home. The pet store called me today to check on him. They seemed concerned that he hasn't pooped in so long and they offer to take him in for a couple days to monitor him but I really don't want to stress him out any more than he already has been. Fingers crossed he does his business here soon.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 4 and Blaze is 2
Sorry to bother you again. I have a question about lights as well if you don’t mind.

That Exo terra solar glo bulb has been a bit inconsistent so far. For the first few days I had it probably 8” from the basking spot and it was only getting temps of around 92F. It seemed to be getting a little bit hotter every day so I raised the light a little bit to around 10” but when I checked today it was around 110F in the basking spot! That seems like a big change over just a few days and likely too hot for him. Ziggy hasn’t been sitting directly under the light much, always off to the side a bit so I assume it was too hot in the direct light? Could his lethargy be from lack of UVB? I moved the light to around 12” from the basking spot now and I’m going check the temp tomorrow and see where it’s at. Now that I have the light 12” away I’m worried he won’t get the UVB he needs because of the screen top in the way but I have the low profile tank so I don’t really want to take the screen off. I currently have an 18” Sunblaster T5 on the cooler side of the enclosure for extra light because the solar glo doesn’t light the entire enclosure that well. The T5 is also outside the enclosure above the mesh. Would I be able to mount the T5 inside the enclosure? Is there an issue using the T5 and the solar glo at the same time or is that too much light? Is there such a thing as too much UVB?
You don't need two uvb's-- it's too much- please shut the sunblaster off - use a regular LED house hold bulb for extra light- he sounds like he's getting over uvb's try that see if his behavior changes
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
You don't need two uvb's-- it's too much- please shut the sunblaster off - use a regular LED house hold bulb for extra light- he sounds like he's getting over uvb's try that see if his behavior changes
The bulb in my sun blaster isn’t a UVB reptile bulb. I had it for starting seeds for my outside garden in the spring time so I’m just using it for light. It provides very little heat too. It’s just a standard 6400k grow light bulb. Is that still ok or will it harm ziggy?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 4 and Blaze is 2
The bulb in my sun blaster isn’t a UVB reptile bulb. I had it for starting seeds for my outside garden in the spring time so I’m just using it for light. It provides very little heat too. It’s just a standard 6400k grow light bulb. Is that still ok or will it harm ziggy?
That is still a uvb-- we often recommend them for dragons- uvb's do not provide heat -- please shut it off and see if his behavior changes
 

Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
Okay can I just say Ziggy is flipping beautiful??? I hope you get things all sorted out - looks like you sure got some amazing advice!
Thanks! Hes pretty awesome. I love him so much already. It’s been a tough week for both him and I think. I just want him to be alright so we can enjoy each other but it’s been a bit of a stressful start tweaking his setup and getting to know his habits. Today was pretty good. I think I finally have my temps good and the lights where I want them. He ventured into his cave for the first time today and rested for a bit. He ate pretty good and I had him out for a while and he was climbing all over me and exploring a bit outside his enclosure. He’s warming up to me for sure.

Still no poop though. The first three days we had him home he pooped once a day and it looked normal. The last time he pooped was Sunday morning and it’s now Wednesday evening so I’m a nervous wreck about it. He was more alert and active today, less eye closing and didn’t seem stressed about being held (Monday he was quite lethargic and didn’t eat barely at all) I gave him a warm bath today and rubbed his tummy gently. I didn’t feel anything hard in his belly. I fed him a little bit of canned pumpkin too but he didn’t eat much of it. I used a dropper with some water and he licked a little water off it. I dont think he’s dehydrated but I’m a newbie so I can’t be sure. I’m not really sure what else I can do? I don’t have a reptile vet nearby. I just really wish he would poo so I can relax and know he’s going going to be alright. The pet store said today that I can bring him in and they can look him over and even keep him a few days but I would hate to stress him out with all that change again. If he hasn’t pooped by Friday afternoon I think I might have to bring him in though.
 
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Bunsy44

Member
Original Poster
That is still a uvb-- we often recommend them for dragons- uvb's do not provide heat -- please shut it off and see if his behavior changes
Ok, sorry about that. I shut it off so it won’t come on tomorrow when the timer kicks in. I will see what happens with that light off and I will get an led going instead.

I’m getting some conflicting info. Cooper said earlier today it’s not UVB and I could use it no problem. The pet store also said it should be fine. Im not questioning your expertise, I have just been having a hard time getting the correct info from the start. There is so much info on beardies all over the internet and it seems like the stuff the pet store told me and the stuff I have read on various websites doesn’t always line up. Even from website to website everything other than the temperatures is a little different. I have talked to some people I know that have had beardies that they bought at a different place than I did and they even had conflicting info on feeding and lighting than what my pet store said. It’s been a bit if a zoo for lack of a better term haha.

I’m grateful for this forum and the help I have received here so far. No better people to talk to about beardie problems than experienced owners. I have a bit of anxiety so I just want to get this right. I want Zig to Iive a long happy life. I usually do a ton of research before committing to a pet but I jumped in a little too quickly I think. I think sometimes too much internet research can be a bad thing and I have been reading a lot this past 4 days. Thankfulky I found this website. The pet store made it sound so easy but as I have found out, starting out is a bit of a challenge with these little guys. I wish I would have had my setup going about a week before bringing Zig home and also transitioned him a little better to make it less stressful on him.
 
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