my beardie has gout

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Tracey13

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Hello this is my first time posting on this (or any) forum so I don't really know my way around yet but I've been learning a lot from this forum since one of our beardies Dyrdek, was diagnosed with gout.A little over a month ago we noticed his limbs were swollen and there was a pink spot on his arm. He went to the vet that day, she did x rays and blood work. She kept him overnight to give him antibiotics and fluids. His bone density was good but his uric acid was a little high. She thought it unlikely he had gout or MBD but wanted to try him on extra fluids (soaks everyday) and antibiotics for the infection and test him again in 2 weeks. When the antibiotics ran out the infection came back, she tested again and the uric acid was much higher confirming gout. He is now taking Colchicine, Allopurinol, and Tramadol for pain. HE is also taking Ceftiofur for the infection and Betadine lidocaine and Baytril topically on his arms where they drained the infection. His gout symptoms have improved a lot, he is catching his own prey again but the infection is very stubborn. Has anyone else had this kind of problem? I just want to know if he'll be okay.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

We have had a dragon with gout & successfully treated him with allopurinol & colchicine for several years.
One thing though, care must be taken not to use any antibiotics with a dragon with gout as it will cause more kidney issues.
What type of infection was present that they detected? You can take a more alternative approach by using colloidal silver for help with any bacterial infections instead of using antibiotics. The infection was likely secondary caused by uric acid crystallization that may have initiated irritation in the local area.
Do you happen to have a copy of the blood test results I could see?

What type of diet are you giving him?
How old is he?
Are you using a UVB light & calcium for him, too?
Be sure to give extra oral fluids daily to help with kidney function.

Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for replying. The vet thinks he is a little over a year old, he was a little bigger than a baby when we got him. We used to give them as many crickets as they could eat in a few minutes, a few meal worms and salad. Their salad was made up of greens(collard, turnip, bok choy or Arugula) mixed with a couple of vegetables like zucchini, yellow swash, sweet potato, green beans, bell peppers and one fruit (Apple's, strawberries, blueberries or grapes). They used to eat a lot of salad but recently nitpicky and mostly wanted just insects. We continued to offer salad everyday. The doctor wants Dyrdek to have only 3 to 5 crickets a day meal worm s 2x a week and keep offering salad, we do 2x a day. We do dust the crickets with calcium and we have 2 UVB lights because their enclosure is large. Not sure if the infection is bacterial vet said this type of antibiotic is one that won't hurt the kidneys. I don't have the blood work but we see her again this week. She has been great and hasn't even charged us for everything she could have thank goodness. Has your bearded had problems with infection as well. Your story gives us hope that Dyrdek might pull through. We are very attached to him.
 

Tracey13

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We are also giving him a soak every day and giving him water and a little pedialyte by dropper. He drinks a lot compared to our other Beardie Stubs maybe the meds make him thirsty. Meanwhile we are giving Stubs soaks 2x a week, he doesn't seem to enjoy them and he drinks a little from the dropper.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Which antibiotic is it? How long is he supposed to be on it?
The meds will make him thirsty so definitely continue to give baths & oral fluids as much as possible.
Drinking from a dropper is an easy way to monitor fluid intake.
The feeding regime was right when they were younger, as they do need a good amount of protein for growth.
Gout does not discriminate & there is no rhyme or reason as to why one will develop gout & another one doesn't.
Is he still eating greens regularly or not as much now?
As far as the number of insects, I would say 25 or so per week is adequate along with greens will maintain his weight.
I am glad to hear your vet is trying to help out a lot & isn't charging for everything either.
Our dragon never had any secondary infections due to the gout.
I am anxious to see pictures of Dyrdek too.
Which brand of UVB light do you have, a tube bulb or a mercury vapor bulb?
He is very young but if you have caught it early I believe the approach you have already taken is definitely going to give him a great chance.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
The antibiotic is Ceftiofur his last dose is tomorrow making it 10 days. He already stopped taking the topical one. He will be seen by the vet Thursday. Do vets usually give people copies of blood work if they ask? I hope the infection is gone but the arms are still swollen. How does thev colloidal silver work? Does is have to be injected? Is it usually effective?
The last couple of months, they have both almost stopped eating their greens but still eat their insects. Since I've cut down on the insects, the last few days they have begun to eat the greens a little more. I don't know why they would lose interest in the greens, I thought they are supposed to eat more as they get older.
One UVB bulb is a tube Zilla desert series 50 17 watt full spectrum. The other is a reptisun 10 13 watt mini compact fluorescent.Both boxes say they need to be replaced after 12months. Thanks for the advice.These are our first beardies I wish we had seen this forum from the beginning.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
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Moderator
Hello,

Oh sorry about that, sure, Ceftzadine is a commonly used antibiotic. I hope he is off of it soon.
How is he doing today?
Yes, if you request a copy of the blood test they should give you one.
The colloidal silver is an oral supplement he could take which is a natural antibacterial/antibiotic with no harmful side effects.
Sometimes they can begin to prefer insects more if they are gearing towards brumation but once they get out of a brumation phase they normally start to eat them more again.
I hate to have to tell you about your lights, but, they both need to be replaced. The Zilla T-50 tube bulb has been known to cause health issues & it doesn't really emit the proper wavelength of UVB which is conducive to D3 synthesis. The Reptisun 10 mini compact light has also been known to be hazardous to their health & it as well does not have the greatest UVB wavelength, either.
The better choice for lights are the Zoomed Reptisun 10 tube bulb or the Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb, either one. I usually recommend that they are replaced every 8 or so months for best results.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
Wow that's bad news about the lights. We will replace them as soon as possible. I hope it has not done too much harm yet and hope it didn't help cause the gout. At least the vet said Dyrdeks calcium and bone density is good so far. I think I can at least replace the tube bulb, should I just turn off the other compact one for now? I don't know what costs tomorrow's appointment will bring.
This evening we attempted to give Dyrdek his final Ceftiofur shot, he he flared out his beard and opened his mouth. He never did that to us before and we got a little freaked out and didn't give him the shot. I cant blame him though, he has really been through a lot. I hope tomorrow's appointment will bring good news. He does seem to be doing so much better.
As far as brumation goes, is that normal for their age? Stubs will go nap in his cave for a while every day but then he comes out and basks. Thanks for all the info.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Tracey,

Oh my, poor Dyrdek, I guess he didn't want his shot! Where were you giving it to him, in the upper arm?
Since he is so young, it could be several variables which caused the gout. He is on the right track no though so hopefully a lot of the damage can be healed.
I would turn the compact off for now, it is very glaring to the eyes. I am sorry you have gotten set up with the wrong lights! Are you using a bright white light for basking?
They can brumate at 9 months or so. It is a quite normal behavior though. I wouldn't let him brumate right now until he is under control & even then not a hard brumation, just a semi-brumation.

I am happy to help. Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
Hello
Dyrdeks appointment went well today. He has gained some weight (yay). One arm looked fine and the other did have some mucous in the blood which was infection but the last time it looked like cottage cheese so it is much better. With any luck it will be better by next week. When we got home and put him back in his enclosure, Stubs came up and put his hand on Dyrdeks and they huddled together for a couple of hours like he was trying to comfort Dyrdek. It was really cute.
I'm really glad we found a good vet and we found this site. I hope every new beardie parent will find their way to a website like this so they don't make the mistakes we did. The book I got said beardies got most of their fluid from insects and plants, so I thought I was doing well providing a water dish and misting them. I didn't know they take in water through their vent and needed soaks. There is a lot to learn.
Here is a picture of the two buddies Dyrdek is on the left.
Tracey
Picture065.jpg


Picture066.jpg
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Tracey,

That is a great picture! Are they housed together currently?
Is Stubs a female? Just wondered as housing 2 males normally would not work.
I am glad that he has gained some weight, he must be feeling better. So it sounds like the infection has improved for him then, that is good news!
I am glad your vet is good also. It seems they are trying to help out, too.
You are correct, they do get most of their water through plants & insects. Honestly I don't think you did anything wrong it was likely due to genetics I believe. Baths & soaks are important, but I don't think the lack of them caused the gout.
Were you able to get a copy of the blood test results by chance?

Keep us posted on Dyrdek.

Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie
I did ask for the copies of the blood work but left them at the vets office. My husband replaced the alternator on my van today so I can't go back to the vet until tomorrow or Monday but I will show them to you as soon as I get them. You asked about their light, we use a basking bulb for them. I think it's 100 watt and it may be zoo Med but I'm not sure. Yes Stubs is a male.
When we got them, my son chose Stubs because he was cute and alert but only had half his tail and he thought he would have a hard time getting adopted. We also really liked Dyrdek and thought theyd be happier together. We know it may not work out forever but right now they seem attached. When Dyrdek had to spend the night in the hospital, poor Stubs sat in the spot where Dyrdek usually sleeps with his eyes half closed all day looking all depressed. He wouldn't eat, the crickets crawled all over him til we removed them. We were afraid he was sick but when Dyrdek came back, they huddled together for hours then Stubs seemed like his old self. I'm not sure how we will separate them if the time comes, but if we have to we will.
I hope you are right about our not having caused he gout by anything we did it was nice of you to say so. You have talked about cherry juice before. In the organic section at the store there is tart cherry juice don't know if it's the same as no as black cherry juice. Should we be giving that?
Tracey
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Tracey,

That is ok, whenever you get a chance for the blood tests. :)
Great to hear the basking light is a bright white light & not a colored one. Have you gotten the UVB light yet?
That is very interesting because normally housing two males would not work, they become very aggressive towards each other. Are you sure of the sex of them?
The black cherry & the wild or tart cherry is different. They both offer benefits that are strikingly alike.
They both contain anthocyanins but I have read that tart cherries are higher in concentration of it than black cherries. So for inflammation they may work better. Though both would be effective for gout & swelling. If the tart cherry is what you found then you can definitely get that.
How is he doing today?

Tracie
 

Tracey13

Member
Original Poster
Hello Tracie
I have the blood tests results, working on getting them on. Between the vet and the car repairs, we couldn't get the new light we are just using the tube light for now.
Suddenly seems to be doing well, his feet still look bumpy but the vet said they may never look better. But he is getting around well, climbing over branches and on rocks. He learned to drink water from a bowl today and we got it on video!
We know that the boys getting along together is unusual and may not last but they do seem to enjoy being together. We have noticed though, if you take Dyrdek out of the enclosure, Stubs will try to get out also until you pick him up but if Stubs comes out first, he will try to jump back into the enclosure. They also seem to have their own areas of the enclosure that they spend most of their time in. If it becomes a problem, we may be able to seperate them with a screen or something.Hopefully the results will be up shortly.
Tracey
 
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