MBD? Jaw shifting?

[Jeplusna]

Hey guys. I’m super worried about my Draconus! She’s about 5 years old now. The last time I replaced her UVB I noticed I left it for 9months when I always change it at 6. Now I’m looking through old photos and I feel as though her jaw is starting to shift. Are these early signs of metabolic bone disease? I give her plenty of calcium… I have the zilla desert uvb t8 strip light. Last night I got the Repti sun uvb t5 ho because I heard it was stronger. She is an egg layer. Usually lays eggs November-January. This past June and July she laid. But hasn’t laid since…. Here’s a chart of her egg schedule:
December 27, 2021: 20 eggs

January 24, 2021: 20 eggs

February 17, 2021: 20 eggs

March 17, 2021: 16 eggs

November 2, 2022: 24 eggs

November 19, 2022: 22 eggs

December 5, 2022: 22 eggs

December 25, 2022: 25 eggs

January 16 2023: 22 eggs

February 11 2023: 21.5 eggs

August 31 2023: 27 eggs

September 26 2023: 28 eggs

October 21 2023: 27 eggs

November 19-27 2023: 25 eggs

June 27 2024: 28 eggs

July 18-20 2024: 23-28 eggs


The first two photos are her currently (she has a little bit of big guts on her mouth in one lol). The other photos have dates on them if you click the photo. I’m taking her to the vet next Tuesday. But I’m worried about her. What do you guys think? Will her jaw ever go back to normal?

 

[IAmAMirage]

Lets get some people to help you! @xp29 @Drache613

 

[xp29]

My first question did the zilla light have the plastic cover over the bulb? If so and it isn't removed it blocks 100% of the uvb, rendering it useless. Those lights should be outlawed. If that's the case she likely has developed some mbd. It isn't curable but with good husbandry it can be slowed or maybe even stopped.
Next question is the new t5 bulb a 5.0 or a 10.0. The 5's aren't strong enough, you need to use the 10.0.
I'm on my phone so I can't really see the pictures well enough to evaluate her condition. @Claudiusx, @AHBD, or @Drache613 might have some insight.
The important thing is to get the uvb up to par asap. And continue giving her calcium daily. @KarrieRee is great with lighting if you need help sorting out. Your also welcome to message me with questions as well, I'm always happy to help.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hey guys. I’m super worried about my Draconus! She’s about 5 years old now. The last time I replaced her UVB I noticed I left it for 9months when I always change it at 6. Now I’m looking through old photos and I feel as though her jaw is starting to shift. Are these early signs of metabolic bone disease? I give her plenty of calcium… I have the zilla desert uvb t8 strip light. Last night I got the Repti sun uvb t5 ho because I heard it was stronger. She is an egg layer. Usually lays eggs November-January. This past June and July she laid. But hasn’t laid since…. Here’s a chart of her egg schedule:
December 27, 2021: 20 eggs

January 24, 2021: 20 eggs

February 17, 2021: 20 eggs

March 17, 2021: 16 eggs

November 2, 2022: 24 eggs

November 19, 2022: 22 eggs

December 5, 2022: 22 eggs

December 25, 2022: 25 eggs

January 16 2023: 22 eggs

February 11 2023: 21.5 eggs

August 31 2023: 27 eggs

September 26 2023: 28 eggs

October 21 2023: 27 eggs

November 19-27 2023: 25 eggs

June 27 2024: 28 eggs

July 18-20 2024: 23-28 eggs


The first two photos are her currently (she has a little bit of big guts on her mouth in one lol). The other photos have dates on them if you click the photo. I’m taking her to the vet next Tuesday. But I’m worried about her. What do you guys think? Will her jaw ever go back to normal?

It does look a little off - w/ the proper bulb the 10.0 and distance and placement we can stop the deformity from going any further --

 

[Claudiusx]

Possibly genetics. We used to see a lot more of those short snouted dragons 10-20 years ago. In all of her pictures you can see this feature.

If the recent more pronounced lower jaw that you are seeing now was caused by MBD, there is no point dwelling on it. And it wouldn't have been caused from you forgetting to change the bulb for 3 months, so don't worry about that. Typically, the jaw isn't the first place you see deformities from MBD, especially in older dragons.

As long as she is still eating and active, she will be just fine. But definitely replace your bulb if its a T8 that hasn't been replaced in 9 months. You can go back to the T8 if you want, just make sure she can get within 6-8 inches of the T8 bulb unobstructed (UVB not placed on mesh, mounted inside the tank)

The t5 you bought will need a new fixture if you didn't get it already. If so, and you are wanting to use the T5 bulbs now instead of the T8's, you'll just need to adjust it to the proper distance, depending on whether or not you are going to mount it inside the tank or on the mesh.

With UV, stronger isn't always better; proper is. You can achieve proper UV levels a whole host of ways with a whole host of different bulbs and setups.

-Brandon

 

[AHBD]

My first question did the zilla light have the plastic cover over the bulb? If so and it isn't removed it blocks 100% of the uvb, rendering it useless. Those lights should be outlawed. If that's the case she likely has developed some mbd. It isn't curable but with good husbandry it can be slowed or maybe even stopped.
Next question is the new t5 bulb a 5.0 or a 10.0. The 5's aren't strong enough, you need to use the 10.0.
I'm on my phone so I can't really see the pictures well enough to evaluate her condition. @Claudiusx, @AHBD, or @Drache613 might have some insight.
The important thing is to get the uvb up to par asap. And continue giving her calcium daily. @KarrieRee is great with lighting if you need help sorting out. Your also welcome to message me with questions as well, I'm always happy to help.

Good questions here, the MBD developed in the jaw , you can see from the one picture of her as a baby that is wasn't there. If you've used Zilla bulbs all along that could have contributed to the problem since they are not a strong bulb, plus for SOME reason the fixtures are made with a plastic shield covering the uvb bulb, making the uvb useless.
But anyway, it's not severe and you don't need a vet. Some dragons dragons develop a slight underbite like that and it doesn't affect them at all. But your poor girl has laid a lot of eggs, has she had any trouble laying them ? Keep up with her calcium supplementation and with the good uvb she should be fine.

 

[Jeplusna]

My first question did the zilla light have the plastic cover over the bulb? If so and it isn't removed it blocks 100% of the uvb, rendering it useless. Those lights should be outlawed. If that's the case she likely has developed some mbd. It isn't curable but with good husbandry it can be slowed or maybe even stopped.
Next question is the new t5 bulb a 5.0 or a 10.0. The 5's aren't strong enough, you need to use the 10.0.
I'm on my phone so I can't really see the pictures well enough to evaluate her condition. @Claudiusx, @AHBD, or @Drache613 might have some insight.
The important thing is to get the uvb up to par asap. And continue giving her calcium daily. @KarrieRee is great with lighting if you need help sorting out. Your also welcome to message me with questions as well, I'm always happy to help.

It did have the plastic over that :/ I used to work at a pet store I can’t believe I never knew that… I just purchased the reptisun t5 10 uvb HO. I feel absolutely terrible I just changed the uvb from the zilla to the reptisun. I have a 100 watt light. I used to have a piece of driftwood there instead of the plastic hideaway and back then I was using a 150 watt. Now the 150 watt seems too hot for her? Am I messing up there too?

 

[AHBD]

Don't be too hard on yourself, people would think that pet stores have the proper equipment for exotics but sadly most have a bunch of useless stull including " night lights", " blue and red, inferior uvb bulbs and more. But Draconius still looks reasonably healthy, that would be due to good care you took despite the uvb situation.
As for heating, maybe adjust the basking spot or get a dimmer.

 

[Jeplusna]

Possibly genetics. We used to see a lot more of those short snouted dragons 10-20 years ago. In all of her pictures you can see this feature.

If the recent more pronounced lower jaw that you are seeing now was caused by MBD, there is no point dwelling on it. And it wouldn't have been caused from you forgetting to change the bulb for 3 months, so don't worry about that. Typically, the jaw isn't the first place you see deformities from MBD, especially in older dragons.

As long as she is still eating and active, she will be just fine. But definitely replace your bulb if its a T8 that hasn't been replaced in 9 months. You can go back to the T8 if you want, just make sure she can get within 6-8 inches of the T8 bulb unobstructed (UVB not placed on mesh, mounted inside the tank)

The t5 you bought will need a new fixture if you didn't get it already. If so, and you are wanting to use the T5 bulbs now instead of the T8's, you'll just need to adjust it to the proper distance, depending on whether or not you are going to mount it inside the tank or on the mesh.

With UV, stronger isn't always better; proper is. You can achieve proper UV levels a whole host of ways with a whole host of different bulbs and setups.

-Brandon

I replaced the bulb awhile back. I now have the reptisun t5 HO 10 uvb 24 watt. I use 100 watt heat light from zoo med normally. Right now I’m using a brand from Amazon called lucky herp 100 watt. Is my wattage off? I feel like since around when she started laying eggs is when she started to get a more pronounced chin. I also changed from driftwood to this plastic hide and went from 150 watt to 100 watt because she didn’t seem to like the heat. Do you have recommendations for that? Did I mess up there? I also just bought liquid calcium. I feed her calcium nearly everyday and a multivitamin once a week. She’s my pride and joy and I feel like I caused her a deformity and that makes me feel so terrible. She doesn’t deserve that. No animal does :/

 

[AHBD]

Yes I read that you changed to the t5 HO so that's good ! If the jaw began the slight shift during egg laying that was probably from calcium being drawn from her body to develop the eggs. But she should be fine now, this is not too uncommon. She will be O.K !

 

[Jeplusna]

Good questions here, the MBD developed in the jaw , you can see from the one picture of her as a baby that is wasn't there. If you've used Zilla bulbs all along that could have contributed to the problem since they are not a strong bulb, plus for SOME reason the fixtures are made with a plastic shield covering the uvb bulb, making the uvb useless.
But anyway, it's not severe and you don't need a vet. Some dragons dragons develop a slight underbite like that and it doesn't affect them at all. But your poor girl has laid a lot of eggs, has she had any trouble laying them ? Keep up with her calcium supplementation and with the good uvb she should be fine.

She doesn’t seem to have had trouble laying at all besides this last time. I find it weird she laid them in the summer rather than the winter. In the past years she’s been really great with laying her eggs. I give her lots of calcium after because I know how much a toll that could be on her. I have a dig box in her tank and she digs her little heart out to lay those guys. She even cuts her head by her eyes because she digs so hard :/ Now this time it’s just been for a 2 month span. Weird to me. I’m worried is there something wrong with her currently that maybe eggs are stuck in her? I don’t feel any in her belly and I can usually tell. She does seem a little bloated and when I give her a bath she does her poop, but after she tries again and nothing comes out. Maybe a little speck of urate or poop. She was a rescue. I used to work at petco and she was in the back for months not growing eating or shedding. I took her home and instantly saw a turn around. I grew her into this beautiful lizard. She’s been to the vet tons as a baby. She hasn’t gone in about 2 years. I stopped taking her because I thought she was healthy and I knew what I was doing. Now in these past 2 years she’s slowly developed a more pronounced underbite and I feel as if I’ve let her down. Thanks for all of your advice. Thanks everyone x

 

[Jeplusna]

Yes I read that you changed to the t5 HO so that's good ! If the jaw began the slight shift during egg laying that was probably from calcium being drawn from her body to develop the eggs. But she should be fine now, this is not too uncommon. She will be O.K !

Thanks I’m such a worrier

 

[AHBD]

Thanks I’m such a worrier

Of course it's normal to worry, it's because you love her .

 

[Jeplusna]

Thanks I’m such a worrier

Of course it's normal to worry, it's because you love her .

Do you think I should change anything in her tank? I have a ceramic heat emitter on the left that I put over her at night wherever she sleeps. I don’t always turn it on so maybe that’s contributed to the jaw :/ I have a 100 watt heat light. I used to have thermometers in the tank but I don’t have them anymore

 

[xp29]

Do you think I should change anything in her tank? I have a ceramic heat emitter on the left that I put over her at night wherever she sleeps. I don’t always turn it on so maybe that’s contributed to the jaw :/ I have a 100 watt heat light. I used to have thermometers in the tank but I don’t have them anymore

The basking isn't relevant to mbd, they need basking to digest food. As far as what is the appropriate wattage, it's trial and error. You need to use a digital probe thermometer. Place it on the basking area and give it about 10 minutes to stabilize. For an adult it should be 95 tp 100. Adjust the wattage of the bulb to achieve that. Brand doesn't matter all your after with the basking bulb is heat. Don't use yellowish tinted or colored bulbs though. Just clear bright white light is what you need.
As far as the uvb situation, don't beat yourself up. You bought a reptile branded uvb, you should rightly expect it to friggen work. That's why I said those lights should be outlawed. There needs to be more oversight in products for exotic pets. And personally I think by law any store that sells exotic pets should have to have a licensed and trained employee on staff during all business hours. It's inexcusable that they can sell a pet but have no idea how to care for it.