lethargy and lack of appetite

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Zemanski

Hatchling Member
I posted in the introductions section but realised I might get a better response in health

My baby, Trevor, has not been eating very well for the last month or so (since his last shed really which was about 5 or 6 weeks ago and I think he's a bit small for his age now,till then he was growing fine and eating like a horse).

It's not that he's not eating at all; he's on about 6-10 crickets a day and does eat some of his veg, but he was eating up to 80 a day.

At first I thought it was stress because we went away and he stayed with a friend and shortly afterward we transferred him to his new viv but he should have settled by now. He's not as alert as he was and seems to sleep a lot too. He is also 'digging' and tries to hide under or behind things. (He has no hide or anything that blocks the light because he needs the uvb but he does have places he can be out of sight)


How old is your dragon? Almost 5 months
How long have you had your dragon? Since he was 6 weeks old
How long is your dragon? 10”
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 4x2x4'
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Clay textured tiles
Do you use UVB lights? yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Tube, reptisun 10.0
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb? Less than 1 month; the old tube in his smaller viv was only 3 months old
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? About 6- 8”
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Incandescent 150watt in a reflector shade. I was using a 100 watt reflector bulb but I found it had to work too hard to maintain the temps
What are the basking temps? 110-115
What is the cool side temp? 80
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Digital with probe in the hot end and cool end, I also have a hand held probe thermometer and a temp gun
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? Directly on the spot he basks
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Medium crickets as many as he'll eat, small locust (occasional), dubia roaches 2-3 a day (my colony is still small).
He has fresh veg available all day and eats a small amount – dandelion, clover, alfalfa various greens, basil, mint, rocket, cress, butternut squash (his favourite), occasionally he gets small amounts of sweet pepper, strawberry, apple, kiwi, mango, bilberry
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? I was feeding 3 times a day until he started to refuse – he will now eat most in the morning and hardly any livefood through the day, possibly 1 or 2 in the evening (he used to eat up to 30 crickets at a sitting till about 5-6 weeks ago).
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Calypso calcium 5 days a week on the morning feed, also sprinkled on veg, 2 days a week nutrobal instead
I have just started to give him avipro in the last couple of days
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Yes but not as big or as frequent (down from 2-3 times a day to once a day)
Do you bath your dragon? How often? He really doesn't like baths so I bath him once a week or so
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? He has a shallow drinking bowl which he often sits in but rarely drinks from - since I've had the avipro I've been syringing a couple of times a day which he doesn't seem to mind
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no, he's our only reptile
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? Waiting on the results of a fecal - free as part of research so it's taking longer than usual. He saw a reptile vet when I first got him; partly because he has bent front feet. His fecal then was clear. The breeder told me it was a birth defect but it seems he was probably born with mbd so he has been treated for mbd and I continue to keep his calcium supplements high and make sure his uvb is close. One of his feet has really improved although he still walks on one wrist


I would really appreciate any ideas, he is pretty lethargic at the moment which isn't like him at all
 

duke11

Gray-bearded Member
Do you think he could be getting ready to brumate? I was reading this and some of the symptoms match what Trevor has. Also, you are pretty much taking perfectly good care of him so this is the only thing I can think of.
Brumation is like hibernation, but the Beardie's body doesn't completely shut down. Brumation is largely a result of temperature and light changes when the days get shorter and nights get longer. In captivity, you may keep your Beardie's enclosure fairly consistent as far as temperatures and lights go, and his activity levels may stay the same. However, your Beardie's internal clock might just tell him it's time to brumate, regardless of what you do.

Generally, brumation occurs in the fall or winter. Your Beardie will likely become less active and eat less, or stop eating all together. If your beardie decides to brumate, he may sleep for weeks or months at a time or he may just be lethargic for a while. Also, a brumating dragon may dig under his substrate, hide under something, or just lay around his tank. I continue to provide veggies and occasional mealworms, crickets, or silkworms just in case they want to snack. That's another reason to provide a basking spot, so need to be able to digest food if they decide to eat. Even without eating, a healthy Beardie shouldn't lose much weight while brumating, unless ill or infected with parasites.

There are many theories on what to do when and if your Beardie decides to brumate. Some owners think that forcing brumation by lowering temperatures and light to simulate winter is the way to go while others try to hinder it. Personally, I feel it is best to let your bearded dragon do whatever comes naturally.

If you think your Beardie is about to brumate or is brumating, make sure he is healthy. Have a vet perform a fecal exam to check for parasites. If the dragon is healthy, he will likely brumate for extended periods without any problems. Continue to offer food and water, but don't force it. Continue to offer a basking site in case he wants to bask. If your Beardie decides to eat something he will need the heat for digestion. Monitor your Beardie's weight and check for dehydration during brumation. If you lightly pinch the skin on the back of your Beardie and it goes right back down, your beardie is probably not dehydrated. On the other hand, if the pinched skin stays in place for a few moments and slowly goes back into place, your beardie needs water. Surprisingly, most dragons won't lose much weight or become dehydrated even after brumating for a few months. If you are concerned about dehydration, give your dragon a warm soak once a week.

Also, see our page on Dehydration for more info.

Above all, use common sense. If your dragon begins to lose a noticeable amount of weight, develops smelly/runny stools, or has dark circles under his eyes, consult a vet immediately, as these are often signs of dehydration, parasites, and illness.
 

Zemanski

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
it does sort of sound like it but he's only 10" long and shouldn't be old enough to brumate yet - he should be in his main growing phase still
 

Zemanski

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
well, it isn't brumation!



we've tried everything; temps are right, food is dusted, uvb perfect, avipro perked him up a little...

he seemed a bit better but still wasn't eating and then over the weekend he stopped eating live food altogether so on Monday I rang the vet

the vet is very concerned about the mbd (which he had before I got him) - however careful I've been to make sure he gets enough calcium he's still suffering from it and needs more

he's now on a special calcium mix on all food, not just once a day, I have a special calcium food for the crickets and roaches (I'm not to feed him anything that hasn't been gutloaded with it for at least 3 days), I have a list of very limited foods that are exceptionally high in calcium that he has to have every day and they don't include his favourite, butternut squash, and I have to bath him in electrolyte solution for 20 mins a day. And I have to feed him waxworms :eek:

I think, because he hasn't been eating he hasn't been getting the level of calcium he usually gets and it's set him back again after he'd improved so much

He has improved a lot since Friday, he's still not eating on his own but will take some roaches if I hand feed him and he's much more active

the vet sent off a fecal and got the results today - he has all sorts; coccidia, ecoli, streptococcus, .... and will need a course of antibiotics and injections starting on Wednesday

poor little thing is in a sort of half shed too, the vet said it's being really slow because he's not well

but apart from that she thought he was lovely and in good condition - at least I got something right :D
 
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