Is my bearded dragon trying to brumate?

[Girlypop]

Hi. I have a 3 year old named Oslo. We recently moved in March, and he’s not taking it well. Since then he’s always hiding, refuses to bask, refuses to eat, and is constantly stressed. When I get him out of his enclosure he starts acting aggressive but has never bitten me. Super out of character for him.

Some details about his set up:

75 cool, 92 hot, 101 bask, on 14hrs off 10. 40% humidity, 4x2x2 enclosure, tile flooring. Constant access to food and water. He follows a meal plan of veggies I have approved with our vet and I used to feed him 6 dubia roaches + soldier fly larvae every week but have just went to 4 Dubia about every week and a half since he is barely eating greens.

We’ve had issues with him not eating before, as recent as October, and my vet always told me to just wait and let him come back around to it. The only thing she was concerned about was how slowly he sheds, and so I bathe him daily and spray him with a shedding aid when he starts looking like he’s about to shed. So I’ve been dismissing his lack of appetite and blaming it on the stress of the move, but I grew concerned when I weighed him the other day and he’s lost 100 grams since his visit in October. He currently weighs 150 (he’s only 13 inches; he was severely neglected when I got him 2 years ago.) so he’s literally lost a fifth of his body weight.

Lately I’ve noticed a bit of a pattern. Dude refuses to bask. He’s always underneath something or inside his cave, I pick him up and he’s cold and stressed. If I put him in the basking area he runs off and goes back to his cave. Then I’ll put him in the bath, get him all warmed up, and after 15 minutes he’s a bright orange, no spots, and is willing to eat for me?

I thought maybe he’s too scared to be out in the open basking in a new place… but I feel like he should be used to it by now? I have no other pets to scare him off, and I’m the only one that goes in the room he’s in. No loud noises… nothing that I could think of that would scare him.

So my other theory is maybe he’s just trying to brumate and im bothering him? He’s never brumated before, and the house never goes below 70, so I’m not sure why he would want to brumate while the weather is warming up… but I wanted to ask what you all think? I’m waiting to get my work schedule for next week to set up a vet appointment, I’ll definitely get her advice as well, but this is just such uncharted territory for me… I went from knowing nothing about bearded dragons to having one basically thrown at me two years ago and it has been a ride and I still learn something new every day if you think it’s brumation and have some resources on how I can help with that process, please send them my way!

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi. I have a 3 year old named Oslo. We recently moved in March, and he’s not taking it well. Since then he’s always hiding, refuses to bask, refuses to eat, and is constantly stressed. When I get him out of his enclosure he starts acting aggressive but has never bitten me. Super out of character for him.

Some details about his set up:

75 cool, 92 hot, 101 bask, on 14hrs off 10. 40% humidity, 4x2x2 enclosure, tile flooring. Constant access to food and water. He follows a meal plan of veggies I have approved with our vet and I used to feed him 6 dubia roaches + soldier fly larvae every week but have just went to 4 Dubia about every week and a half since he is barely eating greens.

We’ve had issues with him not eating before, as recent as October, and my vet always told me to just wait and let him come back around to it. The only thing she was concerned about was how slowly he sheds, and so I bathe him daily and spray him with a shedding aid when he starts looking like he’s about to shed. So I’ve been dismissing his lack of appetite and blaming it on the stress of the move, but I grew concerned when I weighed him the other day and he’s lost 100 grams since his visit in October. He currently weighs 150 (he’s only 13 inches; he was severely neglected when I got him 2 years ago.) so he’s literally lost a fifth of his body weight.

Lately I’ve noticed a bit of a pattern. Dude refuses to bask. He’s always underneath something or inside his cave, I pick him up and he’s cold and stressed. If I put him in the basking area he runs off and goes back to his cave. Then I’ll put him in the bath, get him all warmed up, and after 15 minutes he’s a bright orange, no spots, and is willing to eat for me?

I thought maybe he’s too scared to be out in the open basking in a new place… but I feel like he should be used to it by now? I have no other pets to scare him off, and I’m the only one that goes in the room he’s in. No loud noises… nothing that I could think of that would scare him.

So my other theory is maybe he’s just trying to brumate and im bothering him? He’s never brumated before, and the house never goes below 70, so I’m not sure why he would want to brumate while the weather is warming up… but I wanted to ask what you all think? I’m waiting to get my work schedule for next week to set up a vet appointment, I’ll definitely get her advice as well, but this is just such uncharted territory for me… I went from knowing nothing about bearded dragons to having one basically thrown at me two years ago and it has been a ride and I still learn something new every day if you think it’s brumation and have some resources on how I can help with that process, please send them my way!

Please go over the lighting in the tank --- brand and bulb of the basking bulb how your getting the surface basking temps they should be 95-100 taken w / a digital probe thermometer -- UVB brand and bulb coil or long tube fixture - where is the UVB placed? At 150 grams they dragon is too light of weight to brumate - he needs to be at least 300 grams - cool side should be 80ish -- 75 is too cool that is a good night tinme temp --

 

[Girlypop]

Please go over the lighting in the tank --- brand and bulb of the basking bulb how your getting the surface basking temps they should be 95-100 taken w / a digital probe thermometer -- UVB brand and bulb coil or long tube fixture - where is the UVB placed? At 150 grams they dragon is too light of weight to brumate - he needs to be at least 300 grams - cool side should be 80ish -- 75 is too cool that is a good night tinme temp --

Zoo med T5 10.0 18 inch UVB tube last changed in September. GE halogen bulb 80W last changed in February. Basking temp was measured with a zoo med digital thermometer. UVB is mounted inside of the enclosure next to the halogen bulb.

 

[KarrieRee]

Zoo med T5 10.0 18 inch UVB tube last changed in September. GE halogen bulb 80W last changed in February. Basking temp was measured with a zoo med digital thermometer. UVB is mounted inside of the enclosure next to the halogen bulb.

18" is too small for a 120 gallon tank-- I believe those bulbs are T 8's for the fixture size please look on the bulb-- you want a 24" fixture-- the T 8 has expired they are only good for 5 months-- this would be why his behavior is this way - the distance for a T 8 needs to be 6-8 inches directly above the basking decor - please upgrade to a 24" fixture as soon as you can-

 

[Girlypop]

Please go over the lighting in the tank --- brand and bulb of the basking bulb how your getting the surface basking temps they should be 95-100 taken w / a digital probe thermometer -- UVB brand and bulb coil or long tube fixture - where is the UVB placed? At 150 grams they dragon is too light of weight to brumate - he needs to be at least 300 grams - cool side should be 80ish -- 75 is too cool that is a good night tinme temp --

Zoo med T5 10.0 18 inch UVB tube last changed in September. GE halogen bulb 80W last changed in February. Basking temp was measured with a

18" is too small for a 120 gallon tank-- I believe those bulbs are T 8's for the fixture size please look on the bulb-- you want a 24" fixture-- the T 8 has expired they are only good for 5 months-- this would be why his behavior is this way - the distance for a T 8 needs to be 6-8 inches directly above the basking decor - please upgrade to a 24" fixture as soon as you can-

my bad- just looked at my order history and it’s a 22 inch bulb that fits inside of a 24 inch fixture. Not sure where I was getting 18 from. Was pretty sure they lasted a year but I’ll get on ordering him a new one. Also today I put an old, smaller deep heat emitter on the cool side to warm it up a little and it’s hanging around 87. Might be too warm but I’m not sure how to achieve an exact 5 degree temperature rise. Maybe the increase will stimulate an appetite, but you’d think if dude was cold on that side he’d spend more time basking… then again, not the smartest crayon in the box.

I bathed him yesterday and then put him back, but sat in front of the enclosure with the door open for some time while I painted and dude was acting out. I mean like. All over the place, playing with everything, really showing out for me. Then when I got up he went and hid. It’s almost like he doesn’t feel safe if I’m not around? Idk, probably putting too many human feelings on the little guy. But while I still haven’t seen him eat veggies he’s pooping every day when I give him a bath now and he's never once been dehydrated. So things are looking up. Still have a vet appointment next Friday, though. I’m sure they’ll tell me he’s fine and to just keep bathing him— like they always do, but at least I have the peace of mind.

 

[Chris.]

Zoo med T5 10.0 18 inch UVB tube last changed in September. GE halogen bulb 80W last changed in February. Basking temp was measured with a

my bad- just looked at my order history and it’s a 22 inch bulb that fits inside of a 24 inch fixture. Not sure where I was getting 18 from. Was pretty sure they lasted a year but I’ll get on ordering him a new one. Also today I put an old, smaller deep heat emitter on the cool side to warm it up a little and it’s hanging around 87. Might be too warm but I’m not sure how to achieve an exact 5 degree temperature rise. Maybe the increase will stimulate an appetite, but you’d think if dude was cold on that side he’d spend more time basking… then again, not the smartest crayon in the box.

I bathed him yesterday and then put him back, but sat in front of the enclosure with the door open for some time while I painted and dude was acting out. I mean like. All over the place, playing with everything, really showing out for me. Then when I got up he went and hid. It’s almost like he doesn’t feel safe if I’m not around? Idk, probably putting too many human feelings on the little guy. But while I still haven’t seen him eat veggies he’s pooping every day when I give him a bath now and he's never once been dehydrated. So things are looking up. Still have a vet appointment next Friday, though. I’m sure they’ll tell me he’s fine and to just keep bathing him— like they always do, but at least I have the peace of mind.

Can you post a picture of the enclosure and the dragon?!
I'd not do too many baths, they don't really help with shedding (other than getting the already loose skin off) and could be a factor for stress and premature poops.
Cool side should be 75 - 85 °F but as Karrie suggested you should aim for 80. They won't mind a couple of degrees though, the world is no laboratory

If he was brumating or loosing his appetite due to shedding, he would not be loosing weight. There must be something else going on.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

At 3 years of age, they are old enough to brumate as long as they are
of healthy weight & don't have any health problems. Since he was in
rough shape when you got him, it sounds like he was likely stunted in
growth. If he's losing weight right now, a vet visit would be a good idea.
Let us know how the vet visit goes.
Are you supplementing calcium on a regular basis for him?
A picture of your tank setup & of your dragon is always helpful, too.
The Zoomed Reptisun 10 T5 tube is a good bulb. It should be at a
distance of 10 or so inches for maximum UVB exposure.

Tracie

 

[Girlypop]

Can you post a picture of the enclosure and the dragon?!
I'd not do too many baths, they don't really help with shedding (other than getting the already loose skin off) and could be a factor for stress and premature poops.
Cool side should be 75 - 85 °F but as Karrie suggested you should aim for 80. They won't mind a couple of degrees though, the world is no laboratory

If he was brumating or loosing his appetite due to shedding, he would not be loosing weight. There must be something else going on.

I’m not super fond of giving baths every day either, but it’s been the advice I’ve been given by both vets that have seen him while he has been in my care, and he always seems more energetic and has a better appetite after a bath. I cannot remember for the life of me what she called the condition he has, but basically due to poor nutrition in his earlier years he sheds in sections and super slowly, which also effects his femoral pores getting clogged. Attached are some photos of him and his enclosure.

 

[Girlypop]

Hello,

At 3 years of age, they are old enough to brumate as long as they are
of healthy weight & don't have any health problems. Since he was in
rough shape when you got him, it sounds like he was likely stunted in
growth. If he's losing weight right now, a vet visit would be a good idea.
Let us know how the vet visit goes.
Are you supplementing calcium on a regular basis for him?
A picture of your tank setup & of your dragon is always helpful, too.
The Zoomed Reptisun 10 T5 tube is a good bulb. It should be at a
distance of 10 or so inches for maximum UVB exposure.

Tracie

Yes! He gets d3 twice a week, calcium 3x and a multivitamin powder 2x. He also takes an immune support supplement daily. Photos are attached. We let my niece decorate

 

[KarrieRee]

Please get a digital probe thermometer and place on the hammock if that is his basking area - you want surface basking temps of 95-100 - I see stick ons those will give ambient temps only -- incorrect surface basking temps if too cool will send them into a slumber like state - his tank set up is cute - also the dehumidifier in the tank is questionable - you want a digital probe hygrometer exo Terra makes them stick ons are not very accurate and the probe should go on the center back wall of the tank - 40-50% is optimal -

 

[Girlypop]

Please get a digital probe thermometer and place on the hammock if that is his basking area - you want surface basking temps of 95-100 - I see stick ons those will give ambient temps only -- incorrect surface basking temps if too cool will send them into a slumber like state - his tank set up is cute - also the dehumidifier in the tank is questionable - you want a digital probe hygrometer exo Terra makes them stick ons are not very accurate and the probe should go on the center back wall of the tank - 40-50% is optimal -

Hi yes I have probes I just don’t keep them in there all the time. I check them weekly or biweekly. And I live in the southern US with 95% humidity so the dehumidifier is mandatory. Literally the tank on that thing fills up within a week.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi yes I have probes I just don’t keep them in there all the time. I check them weekly or biweekly. And I live in the southern US with 95% humidity so the dehumidifier is mandatory. Literally the tank on that thing fills up within a week.

What is Oslos weight? You dont want him to brumate under 300 grams- has he brumated before?

 

[Chris.]

I’m not super fond of giving baths every day either, but it’s been the advice I’ve been given by both vets that have seen him while he has been in my care, and he always seems more energetic and has a better appetite after a bath. I cannot remember for the life of me what she called the condition he has, but basically due to poor nutrition in his earlier years he sheds in sections and super slowly, which also effects his femoral pores getting clogged. Attached are some photos of him and his enclosure.

Ah okey. My boy also sheds really slow (he's a leatherback) and I found it sometimes also helps to bring him out in the sun a little. The real uv light and the excitement seems to stimulate him in some way.
Removing the water fountain would also lower the humidity in the tank.
His setup is really cute and he looks not unhealthy or dehydrated on those pictures.