Is it safe to give fluids for dehydrated beardie if they have fluid in abdomen?

[EmmaL]

Recently found out my beardie has fluid in her abdomen haven’t gotten all her blood work back yet but I was told by the vet that it looks like she’s in kidney failure . She’s extremely dehydrated so they were going to inject fluids but then decided not to because they thought it would just add to the fluid in her abdomen. They drained some and it was very yellow. Now they’re saying it might be okay to give fluids because they don’t want the dehydration to make her kidneys worse. I’m just scared she’s going to go into shock or something if we drain the fluid in her abdomen and then give her fluids for dehydration. Does this sound like a bad idea? lol

 

[xp29]

Dehydration is serious, i would give her at least some water if she were mine. Maybe ask @Drache613 though she is a vet tech.

 

[EmmaL]

Like continue to try to get her to drink water or injecting fluids? I did message Tracie so hopefully she’ll have some input. She’s in kidney failure so I fear that just getting her to drink water won’t be enough but I don’t want to make things worse.

 

[EmmaL]

Recently found out my beardie has fluid in her abdomen haven’t gotten all her blood work back yet but I was told by the vet that it looks like she’s in kidney failure . She’s extremely dehydrated so they were going to inject fluids but then decided not to because they thought it would just add to the fluid in her abdomen. They drained some and it was very yellow. Now they’re saying it might be okay to give fluids because they don’t want the dehydration to make her kidneys worse. I’m just scared she’s going to go into shock or something if we drain the fluid in her abdomen and then give her fluids for dehydration. Does this sound like a bad idea? lol

@Drache613

 

[xp29]

I would give it to her orally.

 

[Claudiusx]

How is your dragon doing?

What makes you say she is dehydrated?

Hydration during kidney failure is going to be extremely tricky. The kidneys aren't going to be able to process the water coming in very well, which is going to back it up into the bloodstream, possibly diluting the electrolytes in the body essentially causing water toxicity.

What has your vet recommended?

-Brandon

 

[EmmaL]

She’s okay this morning, I got her to eat some of her greens which i haven’t been able to in a few days. So I’m happy about that. I noticed she was dehydrated when the skin on her back seemed very wrinkled and when I would lightly pinch it, it wouldn’t snap back like it usually would. Then a few days after that her eyes sunk in and started drooping at the top. My mom is a vet tech so we’re able to give her fluids at home, so the vet recommended no more than 5 cc of fluid under her skin on by her shoulders. Also said we could drain the fluid in her belly to make her more comfortable, which my mom is very experienced at so we’ve also done that . We’re still waiting on more blood work and then they’re going to consult with a specialist who can interpret the blood work better. She also thinks it could maybe be heart failure as well so she doesn’t want to give too much fluids. I do know that her calcium and phosphorus levels were veryyyy high, especially calcium. From what I heard it’s not looking good for my baby we gave her another X-ray last night and it seemed that the fluid had moved up towards her chest as well, which the vet said was a given since they don’t have a diaphragm. she doesn’t seem to be in pain and isn’t breathing abnormally and shes still eating so it’s very confusing.

 

[SkittlesK]

I wouldn't be doing a procedure like that at home.
You can, but I've worked in laboratory environments, and the chances are that Beardie will die if you inject fluids...
I would pinch the bottom of the throat and open the mouth.
Unless you were recommended by the veterinarian, try to give fluids orally.

 

[EmmaL]

How is your dragon doing?

What makes you say she is dehydrated?

Hydration during kidney failure is going to be extremely tricky. The kidneys aren't going to be able to process the water coming in very well, which is going to back it up into the bloodstream, possibly diluting the electrolytes in the body essentially causing water toxicity.

What has your vet recommended?

-Brandon

I wouldn't be doing a procedure like that at home.
You can, but I've worked in laboratory environments, and the chances are that Beardie will die if you inject fluids...
I would pinch the bottom of the throat and open the mouth.
Unless you were recommended by the veterinarian, try to give fluids orally.

The vet did recommend to inject no more than 5cc fluids daily, but only because she works with my mom and knows she capable of giving them to her safely. But she is not an exotic vet and hasn’t seen many cases like this so if this is dangerous I will definitely not do it anymore. I have been trying to give her fluids orally as well which I’ve had some success with she’s just a very stubborn girl! Just waiting on the rest of her blood work so I can take her to an exotic vet for another opinion.

 

[Claudiusx]

I noticed she was dehydrated when the skin on her back seemed very wrinkled and when I would lightly pinch it, it wouldn’t snap back like it usually would. Then a few days after that her eyes sunk in and started drooping at the top.

Hi there,

Ok, I thought that might have been how you were determining hydration, which is why I asked.
That's a common myth actually. You can't accurately tell hydration levels in dragons based on their skin and/or eyes.

Outside of the vet, the only accurate way to gauge hydration levels is through the stool, namely the urate. If it is hard and chalky, the dragon isn't getting enough water. Discolored urates can be a sign of lack of fluid too, but it can also be a sign of over supplementation.

Watch the stools (just visually inspect them) for signs of hydration level.

I would lay off of the forced extra hydration until you see a stool if the dragon is really in kidney failure. If the dragon wants to drink on it's own, that's fine. Have you already had bloodwork done to confirm that? Can you post the blood work results please?

-Brandon

 

[EmmaL]

Hi there,

Ok, I thought that might have been how you were determining hydration, which is why I asked.
That's a common myth actually. You can't accurately tell hydration levels in dragons based on their skin and/or eyes.

Outside of the vet, the only accurate way to gauge hydration levels is through the stool, namely the urate. If it is hard and chalky, the dragon isn't getting enough water. Discolored urates can be a sign of lack of fluid too, but it can also be a sign of over supplementation.

Watch the stools (just visually inspect them) for signs of hydration level.

I would lay off of the forced extra hydration until you see a stool if the dragon is really in kidney failure. If the dragon wants to drink on it's own, that's fine. Have you already had bloodwork done to confirm that? Can you post the blood work results please?

-Brandon

Hi Brandon! Okay wow thank you for telling me that I had no idea. I will definitely stop the fluids then because she did poop this morning and it wasn’t chalky at all. Actually quite slimey, looked like mucus. I can’t tell if the urate is discolored because of the mucus covering it, but I did take a picture if that would be helpful. It’s definitely not normal looking. I’m still waiting on some of his blood work but I will attach what I have so far. I do think I was over supplementing him which I feel so terrible about. I wasn’t aware that was even possible and I was taking bad advice from someone who I thought knew best. His calcium levels were extremely high. I’m just really worried about the fluid in his belly and whats causing it. The bloodwork that came back so far was very confusing to my vet but she said it looked like kidney failure, so she’s waiting to receive the rest and she’s going to consult with a reptile specialist at the lab. I plan to take her to an exotic vet once I receive the rest of the blood work anyway. I also received the fluid testing but they said they needed to run further tests on that as well which should be back by Tuesday at the latest but I will attach that aswell. She does seem like she feels good today she has tons of energy and a better appetite than yesterday. Also looks like her eyes have perked up a little. Thank you so much for your help, really I appreciate it so much

-Emma

 

[EmmaL]

Hi Brandon! Okay wow thank you for telling me that I had no idea. I will definitely stop the fluids then because she did poop this morning and it wasn’t chalky at all. Actually quite slimey, looked like mucus. I can’t tell if the urate is discolored because of the mucus covering it, but I did take a picture if that would be helpful. It’s definitely not normal looking. I’m still waiting on some of his blood work but I will attach what I have so far. I do think I was over supplementing him which I feel so terrible about. I wasn’t aware that was even possible and I was taking bad advice from someone who I thought knew best. His calcium levels were extremely high. I’m just really worried about the fluid in his belly and whats causing it. The bloodwork that came back so far was very confusing to my vet but she said it looked like kidney failure, so she’s waiting to receive the rest and she’s going to consult with a reptile specialist at the lab. I plan to take her to an exotic vet once I receive the rest of the blood work anyway. I also received the fluid testing but they said they needed to run further tests on that as well which should be back by Tuesday at the latest but I will attach that aswell. She does seem like she feels good today she has tons of energy and a better appetite than yesterday. Also looks like her eyes have perked up a little. Thank you so much for your help, really I appreciate it so much

-Emma

Hi there,

Ok, I thought that might have been how you were determining hydration, which is why I asked.
That's a common myth actually. You can't accurately tell hydration levels in dragons based on their skin and/or eyes.

Outside of the vet, the only accurate way to gauge hydration levels is through the stool, namely the urate. If it is hard and chalky, the dragon isn't getting enough water. Discolored urates can be a sign of lack of fluid too, but it can also be a sign of over supplementation.

Watch the stools (just visually inspect them) for signs of hydration level.

I would lay off of the forced extra hydration until you see a stool if the dragon is really in kidney failure. If the dragon wants to drink on it's own, that's fine. Have you already had bloodwork done to confirm that? Can you post the blood work results please?

-Brandon

Also sorry if I keep switching between saying him or her, I know that’s confusing lol. I thought she was a boy for the first year or so and was never able to get used to saying she lol. She is definitely a girl though!!

 

[Claudiusx]

A picture of the poo would help, we don't mind, we are all used to it here lol.

Also, a picture of your dragon as she is right now would be good.

What started this whole worry of yours that led you to find fluid in the abdomen? How has her behavior been lately, is she eating and active? Any blackbearding?

-Brandon

 

[EmmaL]

Lol I will attach the photo from this morning. I took her in for an X-ray and bloodwork when I noticed that her eyes were sunken and drooping and also because her belly was very bloated even after pooping. She’s being stubborn about eating her greens, but she goes crazy when she sees bugs. I’ve been trying to hold back on the feeders because the vet suspected she could have liver issues as well. Just really trying to get her to eat her greens and she’s getting her appetite for them back it seems. She was really lethargic for a while but the last few days she has had a lot of energy in the morning and then she gets really sleepy as the day goes on. Today has been the most active I’ve seen her in a while. Not really black bearding only when we’re at the vet and she’s unfamiliar with her surroundings. She has been bobbing her head more than usual though. Does the blood work look like kidney failure to you? I’m not familiar with reading bloodwork but when I looked up a reference point for where they should be at the calcium levels seemed crazy high as well.

 

[Claudiusx]

Did you get the results of the X-ray yet?

Has your girl ever laid infertile eggs before?

Nothing in your blood results stand out besides your Calcium and Phosphorus levels. Glucose is just barely out of range but I wouldn't be worried about it.

Your Ca: p ratio is ok though, despite the high levels.

It's possible there is nothing wrong with your dragon besides her being gravid. Eggs won't always show in an X-ray, and they can be hard to feel yourself unless you are very familiar with them. But everything else you are describing points to her being gravid.

If shes been gravid for awhile now and hasn't been able to lay, she might be starting to reabsorb the eggs, but either way, I'd recommend giving her a lay box and seeing how she reacts.

Common signs of a female being gravid include pacing, glass surfing, bloating in the stomach, restlessness. During egg formation, plasma and serum levels of calcium in the blood will be much higher than normal due to the formation of the yolk and shell.

Based on her pictures, she looks healthy to me. Typically in organ failure the first sign is going to be loss of fat stores on the head and base of tail. She has plenty. She is round near the hind legs in her belly, which is also common in gravid females. Her blood levels correlate to what a gravid females would be. If I was a betting man...

EDIT: Oh and PS, that BM has plenty of fluid in it, definitely not dehydrated

-Brandon