Information on Breeding NEEDED

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In about 5 months I plan on breeding by bearded dragons. This gives me enough time to fatten them up AND they'll be about 15 months old. I have two incubators already and I plan on taking all three to the vet for a overall check-up in 4 weeks to make sure they're perfectly fine, I read something about giving them a place to digg and will need more information on this from you guys =). Do I keep the female in her original cage or put her in a egg-laying cage? Should she go on a certain diet before she's mated. How much is the estimated cost overall for the breeding process babies and all? Thanks and I hope to hear from you guys soon =)!
:study: :blob8:
 

carmallarm

Hatchling Member
FYI, it's recommended that Beardie females be a minimum of 18 months old before breeding. If you breed them too early, calcium which should be going towards their bones goes towards the development of eggs, which can cause an early onset of MBD.

I would recommend looking up brumation (sort of like a pre-mating hibernation), as well as vitamin and calcium +D3 vitamin supplements, especially for your female. Make sure they both have proper lighting and heat, and that they get fresh veggies, gut-loaded prey, etc. For all the time other than when you specifically put them together to mate, each Beardie should have his/her own cage (40 gallon minimum. Wide/deep tanks are better than tall ones).

When the time comes, you'll need a large dig box for your female filled with dirt (I used a soil/peat moss topsoil mix with no added fertilizers from Home Depot). Some people use various mixes of dirt, pearlite, vermiculite, sand, etc. Just make sure that it clumps nicely and is nice and warm. (It's fantastic that you already have incubators, but I'll add info about them for everyone else reading this thread, so they get a complete breakdown of costs). You'll want to pre-order an incubator, and set it up a couple of days before the eggs are due to be laid to make sure that the temperatures stop fluctuating and are set between 84 and 86 degrees F. The Hova Bator is a great incubator for beginners. It's small and cost-effective, and can easily incubate 25 Beardie eggs held in plastic sandwich containers: http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?id=1602N

Hatchling Beardies need to eat 3x/day, and should be eating ~15 crickets/day. You can order pinhead crickets online at http://www.wormman.com/pd_1000.cfm , or any other number of insect breeding websites. Make sure the babies get plenty to eat! If they aren't given enough food, they'll start to nip at eachother's toes and tails. They should also be housed at no more than 5/tank, or less than that for the beginner breeder so you can be more aware of dominance issues. Also, make sure to house hatchlings on newspaper. It's not the prettiest substrate, but crucial to keep the babies from swallowing substrate and dying from intestinal compaction. Here's a website with info on raising hatchling Beardies: http://www.dachiu.com/care/bbeard.html

As for $$, here's an approximate break-down of costs for 1 average-sized clutch (20 eggs) Btw, this doesn't include the cost of vet visits, vitamin supplements for the parents, etc. Just costs for the dig-box, eggs, and hatchlings:

Incubator: $40
Dirt/pearlite mix: $10
Dig-box: $5
Sandwich containers for eggs: $5
Boxes to house babies (5 beardies/box, $10/box): $40
Lighting for babies (1 set of lights/box (1 day light + 1 night light) + clamps for lights (10 total) + 1 long UV bulb + stand which will suffice for all boxes): $155
Crickets for hatchlings (20 hatchlings, 20 crickets/hatchling/day, $0.03/cricket, 1 month of feeding): $360
Mealworms for hatchlings (20 hatchlings, 1 mealworms/hatchling/day, $.03/mealworm, 1 month of feeding): $18
Veggies for hatchlings (1 bunch kale/week + etc. veggies): $15
TOTAL COST (20 well-fed, warm, hatchlings, raised to 1 month old): $648

If you sell each Beardie for $50/piece, you will make $1,000 from the sale, which is reduced to $352 after subtraction of costs of raising the babies. This ends up being a $35% profit. However, remember that you might not sell all of your babies in a month, and simply feeding all those hungry mouths for 2 months instead of 1 will cause you to operate at a loss. Also, your female could become egg-bound which will cost $$ at the vet's office, you may decide to adopt out some of your babies at no cost if you're sure that they'll be going to good homes. If you decide to ship your babies, shipping in temperature extremes is not recommended, so you may need to either keep the babies for a while until temperatures are more conducive to shipping live animals or pack them in cold/hot packs and plenty of insulation. All of this costs money.

In total, raising baby Beardies is an incredible and rewarding experience, but should not be done for profit unless you're a large-scale operation who is breeding for a particular phenotype, where you'd be able to charge lots more for the babies.

Good luck with your beardies, and welcome to the BD forum.
 

3beardies1cup

Member
Original Poster
carmallarm":c9b72 said:
FYI, it's recommended that Beardie females be a minimum of 18 months old before breeding. If you breed them too early, calcium which should be going towards their bones goes towards the development of eggs, which can cause an early onset of MBD.

I would recommend looking up brumation (sort of like a pre-mating hibernation), as well as vitamin and calcium +D3 vitamin supplements, especially for your female. Make sure they both have proper lighting and heat, and that they get fresh veggies, gut-loaded prey, etc. For all the time other than when you specifically put them together to mate, each Beardie should have his/her own cage (40 gallon minimum. Wide/deep tanks are better than tall ones).

When the time comes, you'll need a large dig box for your female filled with dirt (I used a soil/peat moss topsoil mix with no added fertilizers from Home Depot). Some people use various mixes of dirt, pearlite, vermiculite, sand, etc. Just make sure that it clumps nicely and is nice and warm. (It's fantastic that you already have incubators, but I'll add info about them for everyone else reading this thread, so they get a complete breakdown of costs). You'll want to pre-order an incubator, and set it up a couple of days before the eggs are due to be laid to make sure that the temperatures stop fluctuating and are set between 84 and 86 degrees F. The Hova Bator is a great incubator for beginners. It's small and cost-effective, and can easily incubate 25 Beardie eggs held in plastic sandwich containers: http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?id=1602N

Hatchling Beardies need to eat 3x/day, and should be eating ~15 crickets/day. You can order pinhead crickets online at http://www.wormman.com/pd_1000.cfm , or any other number of insect breeding websites. Make sure the babies get plenty to eat! If they aren't given enough food, they'll start to nip at eachother's toes and tails. They should also be housed at no more than 5/tank, or less than that for the beginner breeder so you can be more aware of dominance issues. Also, make sure to house hatchlings on newspaper. It's not the prettiest substrate, but crucial to keep the babies from swallowing substrate and dying from intestinal compaction. Here's a website with info on raising hatchling Beardies: http://www.dachiu.com/care/bbeard.html

As for $$, here's an approximate break-down of costs for 1 average-sized clutch (20 eggs) Btw, this doesn't include the cost of vet visits, vitamin supplements for the parents, etc. Just costs for the dig-box, eggs, and hatchlings:

Incubator: $40
Dirt/pearlite mix: $10
Dig-box: $5
Sandwich containers for eggs: $5
Boxes to house babies (5 beardies/box, $10/box): $40
Lighting for babies (1 set of lights/box (1 day light + 1 night light) + clamps for lights (10 total) + 1 long UV bulb + stand which will suffice for all boxes): $155
Crickets for hatchlings (20 hatchlings, 20 crickets/hatchling/day, $0.03/cricket, 1 month of feeding): $360
Mealworms for hatchlings (20 hatchlings, 1 mealworms/hatchling/day, $.03/mealworm, 1 month of feeding): $18
Veggies for hatchlings (1 bunch kale/week + etc. veggies): $15
TOTAL COST (20 well-fed, warm, hatchlings, raised to 1 month old): $648

If you sell each Beardie for $50/piece, you will make $1,000 from the sale, which is reduced to $352 after subtraction of costs of raising the babies. This ends up being a $35% profit. However, remember that you might not sell all of your babies in a month, and simply feeding all those hungry mouths for 2 months instead of 1 will cause you to operate at a loss. Also, your female could become egg-bound which will cost $$ at the vet's office, you may decide to adopt out some of your babies at no cost if you're sure that they'll be going to good homes. If you decide to ship your babies, shipping in temperature extremes is not recommended, so you may need to either keep the babies for a while until temperatures are more conducive to shipping live animals or pack them in cold/hot packs and plenty of insulation. All of this costs money.

In total, raising baby Beardies is an incredible and rewarding experience, but should not be done for profit unless you're a large-scale operation who is breeding for a particular phenotype, where you'd be able to charge lots more for the babies.

Good luck with your beardies, and welcome to the BD forum.

GREATTTTT Information. now explain about this Phenotype =) 2 of my bearded dragons were bought high-dollar ($300 each) does that mean they have a good phenotype?? (solid orange)
 

carmallarm

Hatchling Member
Okay, we're getting into genetics now. ;-) A genotype is an organism's genetic make-up, while a phenotype is an organism's observable characteristics. Not all genes are expressed, but all phenotypes are, by definition, visible. For example, two people who have brown eyes can have a blue-eyed child, because blue eyes are recessive. The phenotype of the parents is brown eyes, but their genotype is dominant/recessive for brown eyes.

Sorry for the digression. I'm a Bio major and can't help showing off when I get the chance. 8)

What I meant by the phenotype is that if the lizards you're planning on breeding have a particular characteristic, such as clear nails or transparent skin or, in your case, bright orange coloration, you'd be able to charge more for the hatchlings than "normal"-looking lizards. First off, I would recommend trying to make sure that your lizards are not related. Did you buy them from the same breeder? Breeding siblings is not recommended, and you could easily enter a whole other realm of medical issues and vet bills if you go that route voluntarily. Oh, btw, just because you paid $300/lizard does not guarantee that they are either healthy or breed true to type. It just meant that the market could support such a sale at the time.

Secondly, you can start looking around the net to see what ppl are charging for hatchlings with bright orange coloration. There's a good chance you'll be able to sell them for more than $50 a pop if they're healthy, well-socialized, not missing any toes, and have the same coloration as their parents. Post lots of pictures, tell your friends, and basically get yourself as much exposure as you can. Then, when the babies hatch, you will already have an audience waiting for first dibbs on your babies.

It's completely up to you how much you want to charge for the hatchlings, and you may find yourself lowering the fee if you're sure that the baby is going to a responsible, forever home. Remember, however, that it is strongly advisable to charge a fee for the babies, however small, because any kind of monetary transaction is likely to dissuade the crazier people out there who just want to breed for money, or train their attack dogs using your pet as bait, or eat your lizard, or whatever else those nut jobs do with free pets.

As a final note, as I mentioned before, small-time breeding should not be a money-making operation, because the animals in such cases tend to suffer greatly. All you have to do is look up "backyard breeder" on Google and you'll get tons of hits showing you why you shouldn't breed for money. Responsible breeders breed because they enjoy it, and want to improve the breed, not because they want to make lots of money breeding their pets. Remember, also, that breeding your female is a risky business for her, and you should always be aware that egg-laying can quickly become a life-or-death situation for your pet. You should never breed a female Bearded Dragon of whom you are overly fond, because there is always that chance that something could go wrong and you'd lose her in the process.

However, if you're a person who truly cares about Bearded Dragons, and have two healthy adult Beardies, and you want to improve the breed, go ahead and make some babies! I wish you the best of luck.
 

midnight_962002

Sub-Adult Member
You still in school? Have you ever breed these animals? I don't mean to sound like I am putting you down. Your response was very good. Thought of most of the stuff. You have to consider other things. Like the power is going to raise your electrical bill, the meal worms aren't exactly a greet feeder. And you will go through a ton of them.

Breeding these are a lot of fun. Everytime an egg hatches it is like Christmas morning for me. It isn't exactly financially rewarding though. Not to mention the vet bills for the breeders. I just had my male checked out. It wasn't just a simple checkout either. The vet listened to his heart and lungs, did a fecal, and drew blood for a checking of calcium and organ functionality. That bill alone was $257. My girls will be going in shortly before the season starts to make sure there bodies are capable of handling the egg laying.

I would rather my animals be safe than me being sorry that I lost them.

Ernie
 

ilovebeardeddragons

Gray-bearded Member
hey carmallarm you probubly cant tell what would be good to breed with a beardie by just looking at it but you think you can tell me somthing taht would be good to breed with my baby athena when she is old enough heres a pic of her i just dont havae a clue what type would be good to breed with her im hoping you can help me thansk ahead of time Jessica & Nyroc & Athena

one of her face
P8221557.jpg

and one of her body
P8221558.jpg

and this one just cuz its cute lol
P8221559.jpg


p.s sorry i didnt mean to like take over your post or anything :oops:
 

carmallarm

Hatchling Member
midnight_962002":3c983 said:
You still in school? Have you ever breed these animals?

I'm just about to finish my Senior year in undergrad, and have begun the application process for grad school. Wish me luck!

As for breeding animals, I have never intentionally bred any animals before. My female BD was gravid when I rescued her, and since I'm not planning on breeding her any time in the near future (if ever), I figured that I would try to raise her babies, because I've heard that it's an incredible experience and I may not have the chance to hatch lizard eggs again. Since I made the decision to keep the eggs, I've don a ton of research about hatching lizard eggs and raising hatchlings and the breeding process in general, which is how I amassed so much information. The information I decide to pass on to other people has either been information that is consistent from source to source (such as brumation), or methods which I tried myself which I have found definitively to work (such as how to construct a dig box).

As for breeding in general, I am in contact with several people who rescue animals (from turtles to lizards to dogs), which is how I found out about backyard breeders in the first place. Animals are my passion, so whenever I have free time, I tend to surf the net to learn as much as I can about as many topics as I can. I am such a geek that I'll read up on dog breeds on Wikipedia for hours just for fun, :wink: but over the years I've also learned a lot about animal cruelty cases, dog-fighting, horse/greyhound racing, illegal importation of exotic wildlife, and backyard breeding, which is why I stressed in my previous posts about how a person shouldn't breed for profit alone.

One of the people who I know who does dog rescue has passed on some pretty horrific stories about animal cruelty, which is why I tend to be a little over-protective of my pets, and why I try to pass along educated information whenever I get the chance. This lady can tell you stories that will make the hair on your neck rise. She once rescued a 3-lb Chihuahua who had been discarded because she couldn't have puppies anymore. This dog had been bred repeatedly from a very young age, and her owners performed at-home C-sections at each pregnancy to remove the puppies (Chihuahuas are so small that they usually can't deliver their puppies normally). She also knew of a little dog who suffered from a completely dislocated jaw for almost a week because the vet who pulled its teeth was too rough, and refused to acknowledge that anything went wrong during surgery, so the dog went undiagnosed (and suffering terribly) for much longer than necessary. I've read articles about how baby iguanas are gathered from the wild, packed on top of eachother in crates, and shipped to the US with no food or water. Those who arrive alive are crawling on the corpses of those who died of starvation or dehydration, only to be bought at pet stores by people who usually get bored of them and leave them in parking lots assuming that they'll fend for themselves because, after all, "they are wild animals, right? They should have survival instincts. They'll be fine."

I take this stuff seriously, and I didn't mean at all to come off sounding as if I didn't think you knew what you were doing. There are just so many irresponsible breeders out there that I almost thought it was too good to be true to find someone who had planned a breeding so far in advance, and who took his pets to the vet, and who even had incubators set up beforehand. I am truly impressed. 8)

midnight_962002":3c983 said:
...It isn't exactly financially rewarding though. Not to mention the vet bills for the breeders. I just had my male checked out. It wasn't just a simple checkout either. The vet listened to his heart and lungs, did a fecal, and drew blood for a checking of calcium and organ functionality. That bill alone was $257. My girls will be going in shortly before the season starts to make sure there bodies are capable of handling the egg laying.

I would rather my animals be safe than me being sorry that I lost them.

Ernie

Have you considered pet insurance? If you've had the animals for more than 60 days, you can sign them up for pet insurance, which for lizards, is only about $10/month, and they'll cover a whole lot of expenses. You may want to consider that, especially for your females. I'd have signed up my guys already, but I've only had them for just over 30 days.

Good luck with your breeding, and I'd love to see some pictures of your lizards!
 

carmallarm

Hatchling Member
ilovebeardeddragons":9aa96 said:
hey carmallarm you probubly cant tell what would be good to breed with a beardie by just looking at it but you think you can tell me somthing taht would be good to breed with my baby athena when she is old enough heres a pic of her i just dont havae a clue what type would be good to breed with her im hoping you can help me thansk ahead of time...

I'm not a breeder, and I won't pretend that I'm an expert by any means, especially because I don't want to give out false information. My first recommendation would be to research as much about breeding as you can, and make sure that you are ready (emotionally and financially) to go through the entire breeding process. It might sound like fun at first, but that's before you encounter problems such as your female becoming egg-bound or hatchlings nipping eachother's toes, or not having an incubator when the eggs are laid, or having trouble finding good homes for all the babies, etc.

Also, remember what I posted about not breeding a female of whom you are overly fond, because of all the health hazards involved in the breeding process. If, once you've done your research, and you're sure that you can make all the necessary commitments, you still want to breed your Beardie, here's what I would recommend:

You can either acquire a male, or you could request the stud services of a male you think would be a good match for Athena. It all depends on how much time and money you are willing to invest, and how much space you have for additional terrariums in your house. Since Athena seems to have some really nice orange coloration on her back, you may want to try a cross with a yellow or orange Beardie, especially since there's a demand for highly colored Beardies now. It all depends on your personal tastes, and what you find attractive. Maybe you want to make yellow Beardies, or maybe you want to make orange Beardies, but whatever you decide to do, make sure that both of the prospective parents are healthy, with no medical problems

In the meantime, make sure you keep her on calcium + vitamin D supplements, UVB lighting, fresh veggies, gut-filled prey, etc., and that she has a minimum of a 40-gallon tank. Take her to the vet, if you haven't already, and then take her again before you breed her to have blood work done, a fecal exam, etc. If all goes well, baby Beardies are the cutest things in the world, and it's a life-changing experience to hatch them.

I'm eagerly awaiting the hatching of Sunny's first clutch, which is due to hatch in December, and am so relieved that the hatching happens to coincide with winter break from school, because I'll be able to be home to feed the babies 3x/day. I probably won't be able to go away for New Years, however, which kinda sux, but I don't think I'd trust anyone else with my little babies. :)

Those pictures are adorable, by the way! Athena looks really happy. I especially like the picture of her wrapped in the towel. I'm sure she'll grow up to be a beautiful lady lizard.

Good luck!
 

midnight_962002

Sub-Adult Member
carmallarm":9baca said:
I'm just about to finish my Senior year in undergrad, and have begun the application process for grad school. Wish me luck!

I take this stuff seriously, and I didn't mean at all to come off sounding as if I didn't think you knew what you were doing. There are just so many irresponsible breeders out there that I almost thought it was too good to be true to find someone who had planned a breeding so far in advance, and who took his pets to the vet, and who even had incubators set up beforehand. I am truly impressed. 8)

Have you considered pet insurance? If you've had the animals for more than 60 days, you can sign them up for pet insurance, which for lizards, is only about $10/month, and they'll cover a whole lot of expenses. You may want to consider that, especially for your females. I'd have signed up my guys already, but I've only had them for just over 30 days.

Good luck with your breeding, and I'd love to see some pictures of your lizards!

Good Luck with Grad School. I am doing my Masters too. But, it is an MBA in Buisness Admin with a focus in Accounting. Not as exciting.

I am the same way you are when it comes to animals. I can't stand to see one suffering. I have taken animals from irresponsible owners, and refused to sell dragons to owners whom I thought were going to neglect them.

I haven't really looked into pet insurance. I was going to recently. But, just haven't had time. Do you have a link?

I am going to put pictures up in the forsale forum soon. And I am going to put them up on the website hopefully soon.

Ernie
 

midnight_962002

Sub-Adult Member
ilovebeardeddragons":43830 said:
hey carmallarm you probubly cant tell what would be good to breed with a beardie by just looking at it but you think you can tell me somthing taht would be good to breed with my baby athena when she is old enough heres a pic of her i just dont havae a clue what type would be good to breed with her im hoping you can help me thansk ahead of time Jessica & Nyroc & Athena


I know that you didn't ask me. But....I am going to give you my .02 Your best bet is to get the genetics of Athena. Find out what is in her bloodlines and decide which ones you want to try to draw out. Then you can pick a male that has the genetics and coloring you are going to try to acsent.

Ernie
 

ilovebeardeddragons

Gray-bearded Member
oh ok thanks i kinda like th ornge bea rdies so just a all orange beardie with her ya that woudl prolly be cool looking and thansk again for the advice oh and yes i got a two years to learn and plan (athena is only 5 1/2 months old)
 

carmallarm

Hatchling Member
ilovebeardeddragons":a9fff said:
i got a two years to learn and plan (athena is only 5 1/2 months old)

lol. :lol: Nice job for starting so early! I'm sure you'll have everything worked out by then. Have you thought about whether you'd prefer to acquire your own male or request the services of a male stud?
 

ilovebeardeddragons

Gray-bearded Member
well of course i want another beardie but im not sure i'd have room for a full grown beardie plus all the babys and stuff so im not sure yet do you think if i would breed athena with just a standard gray beardie the babays would come out like athena? cuz i have a 2 year old male right now but he's just gray buthes like a light gray almost white unless hes mad then hes gray gray
 
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