I'm very disappointed with you, ASPCA.

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LovemyBernie

New member
Dragon owners and lovers,

I want to inform you all of something that I found very disturbing on the ASPCA web page. In their anti-exotic animal trade page, they raise excellent points on the cruelty of capturing wild animals. However, the photo on the page? A Bearded Dragon. This is the webpage: http://www.aspca.org/Fight-Animal-Cruelty/exotic-pet-faq

You can understand that as a doting dragon caretaker, who adopted her bred, NOT WILD CAUGHT dragon, that this accusation that all Beardies should not be kept as pets, greatly upset me. Now, I like the ASPCA and they do wonderful work in rescuing animals. So I wrote this letter to them.

"To the leaders and members of the ASPCA,
I am a lover of all creatures, thus I wholly support the wonderful work you do to rescue animals in need nationwide. However, I find it sad and troubling that you specifically mention Bearded Dragons on your list of exotic pets that are cruel to own, complete with a large photo of one on your webpage which fights the cruelty of the exotic pet trade.

I am a staunch reptile rights activist, and for years I have combated the cruelty of trying to capture and sell wild-caught creatures such as frogs, lizards, turtles, snakes, and hermit crabs as docile, “easy to care for” pets for children. For many years I have educated unknowing potential pet owners on the horrors that exotic pets endure in the pet store industry, and how wild animals who are accustomed to living in the open wild are not meant to live in inadequate cages in a child’s bedroom. It is a topic that is close to my heart.
However, I find it necessary to point out that Bearded Dragons, for the most part, are not exotic pets. Bearded Dragons have been domesticated for decades, and breed readily and easily in captivity. Dragons that come from a long ancestral lineage of domesticated dragons are available to those who know what they are looking for. There are breeders who are passionate about giving their dragons the very best care they can, and making sure the young grow strong and healthy before they find them suiting homes. These breeders usually do so out of their own home, not in cramped warehouses or other such animal “mills.” Much like finding a reputable, humane breeder of dogs and cats, the same can be done for Bearded Dragons. Sadly, not all Dragons come from such a life, but neither do dogs and cats, when it comes to pet stores.

I have a very beloved Dragon who is about 4 years old now, named Bernie. Bernie went to his first family from a reputable breeder who bred lineages of domestic Dragons for years. The people who purchased and owned Bernie for a year or so took very good care of him and loved him very much, but could no longer take care of him, and put him up for adoption around the neighborhood. That is how he came into my life. Bernie is remarkably tame, calm, and healthy. He sits happily upon my shoulder as I garden or go for walks, taking in all the sunshine he loves. He has rocks and branches to climb, a basking lamp, a UV lamp, but his favorite thing is to sit outside, attended by me. He is a voracious eater and is supplied with all of the nutrients that he would find in the wild, and then some. Bernie has a wonderful life.
Dragons who come from good breeders and who are raised properly make wonderful pets. They eat fresh greens and fruits and bugs, not requiring live mice, which eliminates the cruel need and process to kill mice to feed them. They are accustomed to domestic life, and do not mind being handled. They do not carry Salmonella or other diseases or parasites that can be carried by wild-caught creatures. Being domestic, they do not require intensive attention to the heat and humidity in their environment, and they are less likely to suffer from diseases and deficiencies that wild reptiles often succumb to. Their tame nature and hardiness makes them wonderful pets for children. Most importantly, the ability to care for and interact with a tame, domestic reptile offers the opportunity for a child to love and care for our reptilian and desert creatures, teaching them compassion for what most deem “lesser creatures” than mammals or birds.

I hope that my letter encourages you to take a look at some good Bearded Dragon breeders and owners, and that you see that a domestic dragon makes a wonderful pet, especially compared to wild-caught, feral reptiles. I wholeheartedly agree with your campaign to ban the sale of exotic reptiles, but I hope you decide to remove the label of a wild creature from the domestic Bearded Dragon; and realize that good Dragon breeders and owners are not villains. For a more accurate image of an animal to use on your anti-exotic pet trade webpage, I suggest you use that of the Land Hermit Crab, which is impossible to breed in captivity and quite possibly holds the trophy for "Iconic children's throwaway pet." While not all Bearded dragons are bred in captivity, I don't believe that they deserve the label of an entirely exotic, wild-caught, difficult to own pet. I hope that you too shall learn and agree.

Respectfully,
**********"


Reasonable and educational, no? This was their robotic response-


"Dear Friends of Animals:



Thank you for contacting the ASPCA - America's first humane organization - regarding exotic animals. It is important that our members have a voice in what happens in our organization – your willingness to take the time to send a message is truly appreciated. Due to the large volume of phone calls, mail and e-mails, we apologize for a generic response to your message, but please know that each and every communication is thoroughly read.



The ASPCA's position on exotic or indigenous wild pets is precise and unshakable: No animal taken from the wild should be kept as a pet. No form of wildcat, wolf, coyote or hybrid thereof makes a suitable pet. No primate makes a suitable pet and no wild-caught birds are appropriate. Very few reptiles and amphibians make suitable pets and no venomous forms whatsoever.

No bears or locally trapped mammals are acceptable, the exceptions being those taken in by trained and licensed wildlife rehabilitators and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. No "fad" wild animals such as hedgehogs are suitable.



We know from long experience that inappropriate pets suffer from improper care and frequent abandonment. The placement of exotics after their novelty has worn off is extremely expensive and frequently unsuccessful. The ASPCA is opposed to the traffic in exotic and wild indigenous animals in the pet trade. The ASPCA does not release exotic pets that come under its control to private individuals.
"


Each response is carefully read? Then why did they blatantly disregard the facts that I made very clear in my letter, that not all dragons are wild-caught?

I didn't want to put ASPCA in the same category as pathetically ignorant PETA, and I wish they'd understand the very valid point I tried to make there. Perhaps if more people made this known to them, it'd be different. That's why I came here, to find fellow dragon lovers to make their voice heard to ASPCA.

ASPCA, I deeply respect the work that you do, but good dragon owners and breeders are not villains!

Let them know that. Help me make this issue known. When bred humanely and kept humanely, Dragons are perfectly acceptable domestic pets!

I'm not asking you to attack the ASPCA! I just want such a widespread organization to realize their great error in labeling Dragons as exotic pets. Tell them just like I did. If you own them, tell them how well they are cared for. If you breed them, tell them how strict you are about making sure they are healthy and happy creatures and that they get to good homes. Tell them. If enough people tell them, they might listen.
 

bunnyrut

Gray-bearded Member
do they have parrots listed as wild-caught?

there are plenty of breeders in florida alone who breed captive parrots (macaws, cockatoos, etc), but thos birds are considered exotic, no? so is owning one of those birds wrong as well? even tho they were NEVER in the wild during their lifetime? because my mom would be very upset if they told her that her 20 year old macaw did not belong.
 

kjinxx2

Sub-Adult Member
Ahh, you've finally figured out the ASPCA. They're true motives are horribly corrupt. They (well, PETA, who work directly with ASPCA) are actively trying to ban the trade of any python - including ball pythons due to the current issue in florida with the larger pythons. They don't care about the jobs of exotic pet owners and breeders, it's all politics. There's a group called USARK that is currently fighting the ball python bans, I'm sure bearded dragons will be targetted at some point as well.
 

Infowars

Member
Meh... whatever,
the nanny big brother crap is getting old all the way around . BTW Freddie is part of our family, probably best to just let her be ;0}
timesup.gif

Come+and+Take+it.jpg

amend.jpg
 

Yoshi2012

Member
fyi,

if you read their website they are CLEARLY also against exotic animals bred in captivity. They are basically against keeping ANY exotic animal as a pet regardless of where you got it from. I cant say i agree with them since i also have a bearded dragon, but dont make it seem like they are disregarding you or taking the wrong position.

To them owning a bearded dragon is wrong, bottom line, which their response states. Just because you own one and dont agree with them doesnt mean that your position is more correct than theirs. You have to understand that there are people that consider owning any non-domesticated animal (yes beardies are one) as cruel.

Just my two cents.
 

bunnyrut

Gray-bearded Member
yes, but there are also those who believe that owning ANY animal is wrong.
I don't want to see the ASPCA go the same way as PETA.
 

kjinxx2

Sub-Adult Member
bunnyrut":1ihytlp7 said:
yes, but there are also those who believe that owning ANY animal is wrong.
I don't want to see the ASPCA go the same way as PETA.

It has already, they work in conjunction with one another.
 

TASTIGER

Extreme Poster
kjinxx2":304z1838 said:
bunnyrut":304z1838 said:
yes, but there are also those who believe that owning ANY animal is wrong.
I don't want to see the ASPCA go the same way as PETA.

It has already, they work in conjunction with one another.
ASPCA only cares about and rescues things that are cute and fuzzy...
Sadly they are too lazy to adress the problem, there needs to be set guidelines for caring for exotic pets and someone to enforce it.
Instead of doing whats right they are trying to ban ownership of any kind of exotic animal.
 
Instead of doing whats right they are trying to ban ownership of any kind of exotic animal.

That's because it's so much easier to issue a blanket ban on ALL exotics than for some entity (state or loca gov't, whatever) to hire trained people to look out for animals' rights and to enforce penalties against people who abuse animals. I certainly don't agree w/the ASPCA is going about it, but I do agree that there are far too many people out their who acquire animals and then are unable and/or unwilling to care for them properly, and it seems to happen to reptiles much more often. Just take a look at the "Beardie Rescue" forum on this very website for a million heartbreaking examples of how beardies get mistreated. It'd be nice if the ASPCA advocated education and support as the solution rather than vilifying ALL "exotic" owners.

I also have a problem w/how they're apparently defining an "exotic" pet. We've all heard the stories about the yahoo who somehow manages to acquire a tiger or some other non-domesticated and potentially dangerous animal, keeps in it a tiny backyard cage, feeding it dog food or whatever and basically keeping in a state of misery and near-starvation until the poor thing escapes and gets shot by the local police, right? So isn't the ASPCA basically saying in its statement against ownership of "exotics" that I, as an owner of a loved and well-cared-for beardie, am the equivalent of that guy? Seriously?!? Yes, my beardie's needs are a little more complicated that my cat's or dog's, but I strenuously object to the idea that I'm as ill-equipped to care for my beardie as your average person is to care for a Bengal tiger.
 

pogvitt

Hatchling Member
I gotta say, I don't entirely disagree with the ASPCA - I've seen so many exotics suffer horribly at the hands of their owners. For every Bearded dragon owner that buys the proper equipment/feed/veterinary services and has put in the effort to educate themselves about the biology of these animals, I'd be willing to bet there are a dozen more who won't. As much as I love my dragons, I find it hard to defend an industry that causes so much suffering.
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Hi,
Here's a letter I sent to my local ASPCA as well as sending it to "contact us" on their web site.

To Whom it May Concern,
This is in regards to banning "exotic" animals and reptiles. I agree some "exotics" should be banned for safety reasons and the owners inability to provide a suitable environment for them. Tigers and Chimps to name a couple and of course there are others.
But....I can't even imagine someone taking my much loved Bearded Dragons, which I suppose you, the ASPCA would attempt in some way if you are successful in your ban campaign that includes them. Responsible keepers have to educate you that there are infinite number of keepers who love and take excellent care of their dragons.
My 4 dragons are just as much a part of my family as someone else's furry pets, dogs or cats or rabbits or horses or whatever. I exceed their requirements and provide an excellent environment for them. They have proper UVB and temperatures. They get vet visits and good health care. My 4 have had many vet visits as they're rescues. They have daily individual free roaming time in my 3 dragon proof, dragon friendly safe rooms, they get a variety of live insects and fresh veggies as recommended on beautifuldragon.com nutrition list for dragons. They are taken outside to enjoy the sun. My beardies get calcium and vitamins on a recommended schedule. They get hydration baths daily and are kept in immaculate environments. They are absolutely adored and pampered.
I belong to an on-line forum BeardedDragon.org. It is an educational forum that offers assistance, proven advice and support to bearded dragon keepers from expert and experienced keepers. I would sincerely appreciate someone making the effort to read a variety of the discussion threads and educating yourselves. I think you'd be surprised at the level of commitment we share for our Bearded Dragons.
I recommend you read some "Beardie Rescue" posts in the discussion thread. Being a rescue organization you can appreciate the rescue efforts. You will discover the many keepers who have become rescuers and who rescue many sick, neglected, abused, and forsaken bearded dragons. We don't have the support of a rescue organization, we are using our own time, energy and money to save, help, and rehabilitate these poor dragons. They are either kept as beloved dragons or adopted to excellent homes meeting requirements including knowledge in proper husbandry and environment.
Horribly, to many dragons are purchased by people who don't know {or care about} proper husbandry and requirements and they don't bother to find out. Chain pet shops are notorious for misinformation on proper care, equipment and environments for Bearded Dragons. At the pet shops the dragons are kept in deplorable, dirty conditions and incorrect advice is handed out as facts. If the ASPCA wanted to get involved and be part of the solution rather than ignoring or avoiding poor, abusive, neglectful care, you could visit most any of the chain pet stores and look at the Bearded Dragon tanks. They are over crowded, usually no food in with them, or the insects in with them are almost as big as they are, no adequate basking or heat available, waste everywhere, poor sickly dragons laying in corners of the tanks and more. I am surprised the ASPCA doesn't show an interest in prosecuting the abuse and neglect of Bearded Dragons by big companies and/or the individuals rather choosing to ban the beautiful Bearded Dragon! If it were cats or dogs were kept in those deplorable conditions the pet shop would be criminally charged, fined, and possibly shut down.
Sadly some purchased dragons live a horrible life, are starved, neglected and develope diseases. Sadly some people think they are "throw away pets". All of it makes me sick and ALL OF IT IS A CRIME! It should be treated as such but it's not reason to ban Bearded Dragons. For example, I don't believe puppy's were banned when the neglect, abuse and poor environments at puppy mills was made known.
People are charged with the crime of abuse and neglect on all kinds of animals. The animals are confiscated and the offending owner must go to court and faces the consequences. But you, the ASPCA don't start campaigns to ban cats, dogs, horses, rabbits, or whatever furry animal you find abused. The responsible and loving owners keep their pets!
We Bearded Dragon keepers need to let the ASPCA know not all Bearded Dragons are kept in deplorable conditions. Responsible keepers are trying to educate new keepers. And the rescues continue, using our own time and money. I am in hopes that a responsible organization such as your's would check out all the facts regarding the responsible keeping of Bearded Dragons.
Perhaps you could show an interest in charging the individuals and chain pet shops for the neglect and abuse inflicted on Bearded Dragons. I am in hopes the ASPCA doesn't believe as some do that they are throw away pets. Hopefully they will be deemed as important as furry cats and dogs and afforded status worthy of prosecution of the abusers as with other animals rather than banning them.
I believe your campaign against Bearded Dragons is pet discrimination and would appreciate your responsible organization re-evaluating Bearded Dragons being on your ban list.
Amanda blah
....blah, blah blah, NY

What do you think?
Amanda
 

beardm

Member
What im about to write is not for the sake of argument but simply a opinion not meant to disrespect or lash out at anyone.Please keep that in mind.

In my opinion ASPCA has a good point, it's true that beardies suffer by being owned by bad owners or owners that don't do enough research on them. Alot of animals and reptiles get the short end of the stick you have tons of beardies that die or are so very badly taken care of everyday. For example look at Craigslist, there are many beardies on there that are a perfect example. Yes it's great to own beardies I love them just the same as I love my dog and family but what about all the other unlucky beardies that are sold daily by bad owners or by pet companies like petco that live in horrible conditions or don't live at all? Is it worth it?Is it fair? Is it selfish?Our beardies have wonderful lives but think of the many more beardies that don't. It's unpractical to think we can regulate or form some kind of law that prohibits sales to unfit owners or even something that would enforce it. You have tons of dogs who are neglected,abused, and abandoned. We can't even fix that problem that is much more known to the public. How do you fix the problem you "try" to stop it from happening, would it still happen? Yes but not nearly as much. This is not to insult any breeders that may read this I don't go along campaigning against sales of reptiles I would be a hypocrite if it did I own a beardie and I own a dog all part of my family and I love them very much and couldn't picture life nearly the same with out them. When it comes down to what's fair to the animals and reptiles of any kind though it's to ban the sales of them, even dogs and cats. I would hate for it to happen but it's what would be fair to the animals do I want it to happen? No! But do I think it should happen? Yes.

That's my opinion of the situation once again it's not an argument.Thanks.
 

LovemyBernie

New member
Original Poster
Do you understand that to ban the sale of ALL animals, would be to destroy them all? Where would all thoroughly domesticated animals that no longer exist in the wild go otherwise? You don't see wild packs of Chihuahuas roaming the Mexi-Cali border.

Off topic, but I raised 4 kittens from being 2 weeks old when their mother became gravely ill and could no longer feed them. One had Down Syndrome and didn't know how to feed as well as the others and was morbidly frail. I had to squirt formula down his throat just to keep him from starving. I stayed home all day and night, feeding them every 2 hours, waking up in the middle of the night to do so, every single day, and needed to teach them to eat dry food and drink water, and use the litterbox. They are now adult cats, still living with me. They are my children, and no one can tell me otherwise. No organization or vet or person of any kind could have personally given these kittens every second of devoted attention that I did. They are the picture of perfect health, even the mentally disabled one, and for months I was choked with fear, that I'd mess something up and fail these precious little creatures.

I don't agree with the mass sale and manipulation of animals of ANY kind, and I hate pet stores. But good pet owners do NOT deserve to be punished, and their pets ESPECIALLY do not deserve it. Animal abuse exists, and it is heart and gut wrenching. But to shatter the coexistance between man and animal that has existed for centuries would ultimately destroy both.

Guinea pigs do not exist in the wild any longer, as do not cows or many species of domestic ungulates. Bearded Dragons DO exist in the wild, but that does not mean that all of them come from the wild. To put this label upon them is not fair to those who keep and breed domestic dragons. This, to me, does NOT make them an exotic animal AT ALL, ESPECIALLY not to be compared along the lines with tigers and bears. Yes, wild caught reptiles are a problem and I lost my poor blue-tongued skink who ended up being wild caught and never recovered the mistreatment the pet store gave him, and it was heartbreaking. But Dragons are vastly different. I did not fly to Australia, catch Bernie with a net, and put him in a cage in my room.

That is my point entirely in my letter. I have seen far too much abuse, especially to wild-caught reptiles, but to say that a bearded dragon is not an acceptable pet and to compare them to wild-caught animals is absurd.
 
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