If you love lizards consider reading and sighning to make a

A lot of you are going to disagree with this because it will make lizards harder to own but its for the lizards sake 1000s of people buy reptiles not knowing a thing about them and because of this the reptile suffers some people also just buy it because it looks cool and the animals sits in a cages its entire life because maybe it bit them or there to scared to touch it because of this i want a class to be required to own a reptile this would help many things number one sadly it will most likely cause money because even if do get enough signatures as a 15 yr old i will most likely not have much say in how it is done but this will be semi positive because in most situations if you cant afford 50-100 or more dollars for a permit and class then you cant afford to give the reptile the care it deserves. I know this is not true in all situations as i was relatively poor in the past and took excellent care of my snake but i think this would also help because it will make sure people who get a reptile actually really care and don't just want it cause it looks cool it will make it so most of the people with reptiles are willing to put in the time effort and money required to give these animals a happy life another thing i hope to change is the way these animals are treated at pet stores as many of you have probably seen they have sometimes more then 5 lizards in the same cage and most lizards are highly territorial they are also often missing fingers and toes due to fighting and not well fed due to food dominance by the biggest lizards and because the stores do not provide enough food for all of the reptiles if they were to put a whole bunch of territorial starving dogs in a cage together and throw in a stake every once in a while in a public place it would be shut down in a week it is not fair reptiles don't get this same treatment if you agree with this movement please share my petition has stoped growing and this disappoints me i feel as if people are putting there wants over the lizards needs which i understand because the government will probably make it expensive which will suck but i think it will be Better for the reptiles in the end if i can get a couple thousand signatures i intend to get and attorney and try to make this happen but it wont be easy i will need lots of help and lots of support please share if you agree
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Sounds like you're headed in the right direction, keep fighting for this. I think the key is going to be getting reptiles (and other animals) recognized as beings with rights (similar to what cats and dogs have been getting recently) so that they are no longer treated as property (in the eyes of the law anyway).
 

TurtugaTom

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":198h58s7 said:
Sounds like you're headed in the right direction, keep fighting for this. I think the key is going to be getting reptiles (and other animals) recognized as beings with rights (similar to what cats and dogs have been getting recently) so that they are no longer treated as property (in the eyes of the law anyway).

Yes i agree i just hope i get enough signatures for them to consider it I've tried contacting big animal communities and asking if they would help share but none will respond
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

This is a noble effort & hope that you have success with it! I agree in educating people &
it it difficult to get the large companies & corporations to pay attention to things like this.
Reptiles always seem to get the short end of the stick & need a voice to stand up for them.
Do you have a paper or report ready?

Tracie
 
Hey Tom sounds like you have a great heart! I bought my first beardie on a whim at a local retail pet-store. I knew NOTHING about bearded dragon care but was fortunate enough to have an associate point me in the right direction (for the most part) with what I needed for my beardie to thrive. The best you can do in this world is come to safe places like this website to help share knowledge and provide information to people on proper care for our lizard friends. The fact that you're 15 and motivated to improve the quality of life of all animals is very admirable. My beardie has been my roomate for 7 years now and weve had a lot of great times. its heartbreaking to know giant pet mills mass produce these animals and keep them in poor condition. it sounds like your a very responsible pet owner
 

TurtugaTom

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":52ltcv2w said:
Hello,

This is a noble effort & hope that you have success with it! I agree in educating people &
it it difficult to get the large companies & corporations to pay attention to things like this.
Reptiles always seem to get the short end of the stick & need a voice to stand up for them.
Do you have a paper or report ready?

Tracie
i don't have a paper or report ready i haven't really thought about that altho that would be a great idea i have been grounded for a long time sorry for the late response. my next step is going to be typing up a paper and trying to get to get it posted in a news article or on a news channel if possible
 
While I like the idea and am deeply saddened when I see a neglected beardie, the reality is that I'm not sure how this would be enforceable, and even if it was, we'd see the entire pet market (do we need lizard classes but not dog classes?) diminish to almost nothing if this was the case. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I'll explain why here, and just focus on what this would mean for lizard breeders, as I am one myself.

If a mandated class was enforceable, many people would unfortunately forego getting a lizard entirely. They don't require the amount of care that a dog does, and will always be an easier pet. This is why many people get lizards. They want a pet, but one that requires less dedication and mess than a more traditional one does. Making people take the time to show up and pay for a class where they share info that can be found quite easily on Google will determine whether someone does or doesn't make that purchase, which, given the high number of offspring that beardies produce, will be the difference in making a breeding operation viable. Breeding requires space, money, and considerable time, and if you're not moving dragons, you'll lose money and the operation won't be viable. Every day I have baby and juvenile dragons in my possession is a day that I'm spending money. Those UVB and basking bulbs drive the electric bill through the roof, and those babies eat a lot of roaches (I'm constantly having to buy additional ones even though I breed my own). Moreover, the time I spend feeding and cleaning cages is time that I could spend doing something else. There will also be far fewer dragons out there, and as a result, the price for them will rise considerably. This too will be a deterrent for buyers. Fewer dragons also means fewer feeder insects, and the insect breeders will have to charge more, which will deter breeders. The ones that remain will decide to raise their own insects (which takes time, money, and space), and the roach companies will go out of business.

Like I said, I don't say this to deter you, but if you're passionate about the welfare of pet lizards (something I highly commend), there are probably better ways you could spend your time and effort. I know you're 15, and this probably won't be viable for you at the moment, but there is a huge shortage of exotic pet shelters. I for one have received reptiles in the past who needed to go to one, but I was ultimately unable to find one with space that wasn't multiple hours away by car. Maybe getting one going is something you could do when you're a bit older and out of school?
 

label

Hatchling Member
In Australia here you can only own native reptiles and most of them have to be held under a state licence. While there aren't classes or exams there are legally enforceable requirements on husbandry and you have to keep a logbook of each animal you have, when and where you got it, along with births, deaths and escapes. While there's still poor care out there, it at least pushes people to do the right thing. Good luck with your effort!
 

TurtugaTom

Member
Original Poster
winkydinks":1vashlib said:
While I like the idea and am deeply saddened when I see a neglected beardie, the reality is that I'm not sure how this would be enforceable, and even if it was, we'd see the entire pet market (do we need lizard classes but not dog classes?) diminish to almost nothing if this was the case. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I'll explain why here, and just focus on what this would mean for lizard breeders, as I am one myself.

If a mandated class was enforceable, many people would unfortunately forego getting a lizard entirely. They don't require the amount of care that a dog does, and will always be an easier pet. This is why many people get lizards. They want a pet, but one that requires less dedication and mess than a more traditional one does. Making people take the time to show up and pay for a class where they share info that can be found quite easily on Google will determine whether someone does or doesn't make that purchase, which, given the high number of offspring that beardies produce, will be the difference in making a breeding operation viable. Breeding requires space, money, and considerable time, and if you're not moving dragons, you'll lose money and the operation won't be viable. Every day I have baby and juvenile dragons in my possession is a day that I'm spending money. Those UVB and basking bulbs drive the electric bill through the roof, and those babies eat a lot of roaches (I'm constantly having to buy additional ones even though I breed my own). Moreover, the time I spend feeding and cleaning cages is time that I could spend doing something else. There will also be far fewer dragons out there, and as a result, the price for them will rise considerably. This too will be a deterrent for buyers. Fewer dragons also means fewer feeder insects, and the insect breeders will have to charge more, which will deter breeders. The ones that remain will decide to raise their own insects (which takes time, money, and space), and the roach companies will go out of business.

Like I said, I don't say this to deter you, but if you're passionate about the welfare of pet lizards (something I highly commend), there are probably better ways you could spend your time and effort. I know you're 15, and this probably won't be viable for you at the moment, but there is a huge shortage of exotic pet shelters. I for one have received reptiles in the past who needed to go to one, but I was ultimately unable to find one with space that wasn't multiple hours away by car. Maybe getting one going is something you could do when you're a bit older and out of school?

lizard's are much more difficult to care for then dogs people thinking this is the problems most dogs dont need a really need a tempature gradient(to the extent that huskies are winter dogs that people own in arizona and they do just fine) I dont know(emphasis on i dont know i dont really care for dogs im more of a reptile or cat person) a single dog that require humidity. Unless you are well of most people feed there dogs dog kibble almost entirely.and seeming a bearded dragon one of the most common lizards there are requires a variety of three vegtables a day incects twice a week calcium supplement and a diet with a calcium phosphate level of 2 to 1 which most people dont even know what that is.They require a 60-80 dollar UVB bulbs plus a 30-50 dollar heat bulb(I can already tell your gonna say that you can buy a hybrid bulbs but your not supposed to so this because they need UVB even when they are not baking which mean you have to buy a longwards bulbs as proper care).i realize dogs need alot more attention then lizards which is a big part of it but general care if think lizards are more difficult.This is isnt half of what it takes to take care of a lizard or a dog but I thinks its obvious that reptiles take more effort to keep healthy. I also think that if you will put in the effort to take the class you are more likely do all of the thing that are required to keep your lizard happy and healthy. If taking a class on a animal is sole reason you dont get it you shouldnt get the animal. I also realize price will be a problem for alot of people but in all this will help more reptiles then this will hurt which is my main goal
 

TurtugaTom

Member
Original Poster
label":353lt1kh said:
In Australia here you can only own native reptiles and most of them have to be held under a state licence. While there aren't classes or exams there are legally enforceable requirements on husbandry and you have to keep a logbook of each animal you have, when and where you got it, along with births, deaths and escapes. While there's still poor care out there, it at least pushes people to do the right thing. Good luck with your effort!

Yea I wish other places would do something like that to at least show there making an effort
 

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