I learned how to get his mouth open...AFTER the fact lol

Well, as I posted earlier, Kai bit me when I tried (gently) to open his mouth. A little later, I see an Aussie vet you tube video where he says to get them to open up their mouth, you cover their eyes with your thumbs (not hard). He had a wild beardie and sure enough, it opened its mouth with that trick! Of course, I find that out AFTER the fact!

 

[Sue E.]

I do the same - and I'm puzzled how little that animal eats, compared to other animals -, with exactly 2x per week bugs (and not much), 1 to even 2 times a week fasting (normally he won't eat for 1 - 2 days per week on his own), extra veggies most days, golliwog available always.


His weight is 560 g. He isn't chubby, and I bet I myself don't lean towards "a bit chubby is still lean" (also not with myself, so for sure also not with pets).
A thought: Is it maybe the case that the wild bearded dragons are smaller, as in: shorter, and maybe also narrower in bone structure*? Similar to e.g. like in some birds e.g. budgerigar where the wild form is just significantly smaller than the domesticated form even in those showing the "wild" colors?

*I'm aware that an overweight individual, being it pet or human, is normally not heavier just as the shoulder bones are wider apart, rib cage is larger, hip bones wider - even as some people claim for themselves
On the other hand, however, if that's indeed the case for some individuals and already the internal dimensions are different (like in the budgerigar case: they are larger, also their bones, beak, all that), more tissue would be needed to go around that, i.e.: heavier despite lean.


I agree on this.
In the beginning I was slightly worried about having the enclosure in front of two windows, and I thought as nice as it looks, maybe I will have to use the curtains once in a while to not overheat.
The reality is: My dragon enjoys sitting under the lamps even when it's really hot outside and it heats up through the glass even more. When he's done basking, he goes away. (This is, in my opinion, also the reason why a large enclosure should be offered - for the temperature zones. A dragon sitting at the same spot for hours - mine does - and not acting "sportive" is IMHO no reason for a small enclosure.)

Oh i wouldve loved to get a 6x2x2 at least but the 4x2x2 barely fit through the doors and theres no way a larger one would! But, yeah, he would use as much space as Id give him. Really need to work on dragon proofing the house for him to roam but its tough because these boys leave all kinds of stuff everywhere even after you clean after them lol.

 

[xp29]

All my beardies have different habits and likes/dislikes. I agree with @Claudiusx when I just had Puff I only knew about 1 beardie in specific. After I started keeping multiples my understanding of them completely changed. Sure they share some over all needs, but they very much each have personal preferences as well.

 

[Sue E.]

All my beardies have different habits and likes/dislikes. I agree with @Claudiusx when I just had Puff I only knew about 1 beardie in specific. After I started keeping multiples my understanding of them completely changed. Sure they share some over all needs, but they very much each have personal preferences as well.

I imagine it would be easier to feel more relaxed about them with many dragons over time. I wish I could have more, well, Ive told you why I cant right now, but I just live vicariously through you guys and your dragons. Thats why I love pics of them! They are so beautiful and fascinating to me.

 

[AHBD]

That makes more sense

To be honest, I shudder when I hear people recommending a basking surface temp of 95 degrees. Even 95-100 is low in my opinion.

From my understanding, 95 degrees is the minimum temperature required to even facilitate proper digestion. It makes sense, space allowing, to aim for a basking surface around 105, or slightly higher for non-adults. The dragon can pick if it wants to bask right at the 105 spot, or if it wants to be an inch to the side where it's a little cooler. If you are only offering such a low temperature, the dragon has no choice but to pick that spot.

Couple caveats with that though -

As with anything, advice is just general guidelines. We can't possibly have individual tailored advice for each dragon in each situation, which is why given advice needs to cover the majority of cases. Some dragons, especially older ones, tend to like slightly cooler temperatures.

One of my old girls, Naughtica, was notorious for refusing to bask unless her temperature was at what she specifically liked. She would not bask at 105. She would not bask at 100. She would not bask at 98. She would only bask if her basking surface temp was exactly at 96. And boy was she a pain at times lol.

But, that is part of being a pet owner. In the beginning you start off with the general advice; you learn and you grow. As you gain more experience, and learn the subtle idiosyncrasies of your dragon, you learn what it likes, and what it doesn't like. After years, I learned some very specific and odd quarks with Naughtica, one of which being that she would absolutely not bask unless her temperature was right where she wanted it. And to this day, she's the only dragon i've ever had that was absolutely that picky about it.

Now, if Naughtica was my only dragon that I ever owned, and I did not have this site, it would be reasonable for me to believe that 96 degrees is the proper temperature for an adult dragon. And it would be reasonable for me to go around spreading that advice. But therein lies the issue with personal experience. Sometimes your personal experience is unique, and is not relatable to the masses. It took me awhile to realize this too, which is why I try to be a bit more "loose" with my suggestions and advice on some things than others here.

But, I digress.

-Brandon

I agree, one thing that gets taken out of context a lot is that beardies should only be soaked if they are dirty [ like run through their poop ] Some beardies enjoy a soak once in a while and others will drink.
But the " soak or bath " that became popular many people were doing was an almost nightly thing or every few days which is excessive. Then they would wrap them in a towel or " beardie burrito " and lay them on the bed as if a human infant. This can't be pleasant for a dragon and it really wouldn't benefit from being wrapped in a towel since their body can't generate heat.
So some baths every now + then ? Absolutely fine IF your dragon enjoys it or drinks while in the water.

 

[ChileanTaco]

Oh i wouldve loved to get a 6x2x2 at least but the 4x2x2 barely fit through the doors and theres no way a larger one would! But, yeah, he would use as much space as Id give him. Really need to work on dragon proofing the house for him to roam but its tough because these boys leave all kinds of stuff everywhere even after you clean after them lol.

I had also wanted an even larger one if possible - the elevator (we're on the 13th floor) was what limited it.
Luckily when ordering, I checked before where that thing must go through and how big at maximum fits through.
(Other option generally would be one that can be put together at home like furniture, but that was not available, and ordering from the glass company something custom-made that can be taken apart, describing that in a language I at that time only could use trough translation software - no way. I could construct something like that (make and provide the plans and be sure it works) because of my job, but if you can't discuss that because of the language barrier, and you likely need when you have something custom-made... So I rather went with what I described "a glass box, like an aquarium, but I will not put water in" of that length, height, width and that glass thickness as not much could go wrong with that.)

Regarding rooming around:
I take mine out whenever he wants, but he rather soon wants back, likely because it's just warmer in the enclosure, and we have tile in the apartment (rather cool to the feet). So rather for minutes than hours.

All my beardies have different habits and likes/dislikes.

And I had also seen this here in the forum. There are dragons who don't do or use things my dragon just couldn't go without.
I've read here about dragons who don't use caves - tell that Taco
Or there are dragons who come to you for food - tell that Taco

 

[AHBD]

I get it. Its like nursing (40 yr nurse). Best practices and standards of care are ALWAYS evolving, and each patient is a particular individual whose needs and idiosyncrasies must be taken into account. In life, we all continually have things to learn, and when you stop learning and stop growing, you stagnate. I try not to pass on anything that isnt hard and fast, esp in reptile care which I probably know next to nothing about beyond basics. That said, I would like to learn enough to reach that level of comfort with beardies that I had in my job...patient does x, I do y, which is correct in 85% of cases in SOME areas of practice. Like you dont have to stop and think doing CPR..where do I place my hands, rate of compressions etc. It just happens. And when things go bad, we all get together after the fact and analyze what went wrong and what we could do better next time. But at the end of the day, when the people whom you've learned from go their way, and its just you, well, you are faced with a living person/being who depends on you to do your best for them. So you need to learn as much as possible to do so well, and keep on learning and growing until you die.
(Like my daughter says, nurses should not have pets lol)

I have a couple friends + family members who are nurses. I respect them very much for that labor of love and they are all sensitive, intelligent and they are go -getters and generally good decision makers as well. Good nurses ARE special people.
ETA - the very intelligent ones love poetry too.

 

[ChileanTaco]

@AHBD

I agree very much regarding all the bathing and treating them like a baby.

The wrapping, however, I think that part would be the thing the dragon enjoys about it. Mine likes tight spaces. Mine also calmed down when firmly putting a hand flat on his back (he could get away, and he is not "calm" like out of fear, but really calms down). For sleeping, he always presses himself tightly into his cave, and so that a branch is firmly over his back.

It won't warm them because of, correctly, the body doesn't generate much heat (it actually generates a tiny bit of heat). But I'm sure that something tightly around they are used to (and not resembling a predator) makes them feel safe as they also in the wild prefer sleeping and hiding tightly squeezed in.

(I don't bathe my dragon. I also don't use anything made of fabric for him because he is very spiky and would get stuck in such as a terry cloth towel. Taco is allowed to be on fabric (i.e.: sitting on me), but no way is he put into something made of fabric that goes over his back, like put in a towel. He had already got stuck in a curtain with his neck shield spikes, luckily I'm always with him when he roams.)

 

[AHBD]

Dragons generally don't like being wet and wrapped up. Nothing about it is really natural or something they would seek out. The point being that it had become a problem when a very large number of dragon owners started soaking, then wrapping them. It's not a good thing to do. A quick soak or bath, pat dry and back in the heat to dry the scales.

 

[ChileanTaco]

@AHBD
Being wet for sure not - my dragon also goes away when I water his plants.
The wrapped up however (I don't do that) I suspect this might be similar to what they seek out: squeezing in tight. My dragon, naturalistic enclosure is used, sleeps like that.
Bathing or those "baby bath rituals", I agree you so much and would not do that (if he would get dirty, I would clean him up pragmatically).
Also regarding things that are natural: Regarding pets, especially those not heavily domesticated, I personally strive very much for keeping it as close as possible to nature (thus: which setup I had chosen for my dragon, not using cuddly toys and such) with deviations from that carefully chosen (like: I use a harness, that is far from being natural, but the only way to allow him being outdoors, so I tried whether he accepts it). And I would also not recommend making a "beardie burrito", but rather: don't bathe, and for squeezing in, provide caves and let the dragon decide.

 

[Sue E.]

Yeah I agree. I felt so guilty after he drank sooo much water in the bath that I put his water dish back in. He knows what it is and has drunk from it in the past (months and months ago), so now he has the option. He doesnt really like the eyedropper thing when hes not thirsty and Im not always there to do it when he might be. Its prob more for my peace of mind than his lol.

 

[AHBD]

That's another thing. Many people will find that by putting a bowl of water in the tank that they come home to a toilet. Their dragon likes to sit in the water and have a poo. Then if they by chance drink it later [because that's how some of them are], it's really unsanitary. Also a weak or ill dragon, especially babies, might in it lay overnight which is really bad to soak their scales for 8-10 hours. This can cause possible scale problems and or R.I.s

I suggest putting the bowl in part of the day and taking it back out, especially before night. It can be done every day or a couple times a week or even less.

 

[AHBD]

@AHBD
Being wet for sure not - my dragon also goes away when I water his plants.
The wrapped up however (I don't do that) I suspect this might be similar to what they seek out: squeezing in tight. My dragon, naturalistic enclosure is used, sleeps like that.
Bathing or those "baby bath rituals", I agree you so much and would not do that (if he would get dirty, I would clean him up pragmatically).
Also regarding things that are natural: Regarding pets, especially those not heavily domesticated, I personally strive very much for keeping it as close as possible to nature (thus: which setup I had chosen for my dragon, not using cuddly toys and such) with deviations from that carefully chosen (like: I use a harness, that is far from being natural, but the only way to allow him being outdoors, so I tried whether he accepts it). And I would also not recommend making a "beardie burrito", but rather: don't bathe, and for squeezing in, provide caves and let the dragon decide.

While some dragons look for a cozy place, in the wild they even sleep in trees flat out on a branch. And in captivity many of them will fall asleep propped up as if standing against the glass. If you want to Google bearded dragons in crazy sleeping positions, it's really hilarious how they are all different.

 

[Sue E.]

That's another thing. Many people will find that by putting a bowl of water in the tank that they come home to a toilet. Their dragon likes to sit in the water and have a poo. Then if they by chance drink it later [because that's how some of them are], it's really unsanitary. Also a weak or ill dragon, especially babies, might in it lay overnight which is really bad to soak their scales for 8-10 hours. This can cause possible scale problems and or R.I.s

I suggest putting the bowl in part of the day and taking it back out, especially before night. It can be done every day or a couple times a week or even less.

Good idea. Its too small for his big butt to fit in though. Im not there in the evening or at night..do you think a couple hours a day of the water bowl would be sufficient? He poops in the same spot every time, in the opposite corner, around the same time of day, and I pick it up as soon as it happens or very shortly thereafter. How often do you think they need to drink if they dont like the eyedropper? Because its definitely not a daily thing with him but his last urate was kind of encapsulated (before the bath). He drank and drank and pooped about half an hour later.

 

[AHBD]

Yes it would be fine. And a little soak maybe every 2 or 3 weeks can still be given if he likes it.

 

[ChileanTaco]

While some dragons look for a cozy place, in the wild they even sleep in trees flat out on a branch. And in captivity many of them will fall asleep propped up as if standing against the glass. If you want to Google bearded dragons in crazy sleeping positions, it's really hilarious how they are all different.

I run across those postings a few times
Mine, when neither basking nor eating nor pooping: cave, and when sleeping, squeezing in. There is a cave he didn't like for sleeping before I added a gnarled branch in front of it and half into it. That branch makes the entrance small, and he can squeeze his body under it where the branch goes into the cave. Since I added that: is favorite spot for sleeping.
Before: behind/under the aloe.