Here is the link of the new feeding method which severely restricts the amount given to baby beardies and the rationale behind it.

xp29

BD.org Addict
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Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
I think that... If this *secondary guy* was placed in the wild, he would weigh 2 times less. It turns out he eats too much. Maybe he should go on a diet himself? :ROFLMAO:
I'm sorry if this sounds a little rude :)
I just want to show with a simple example how flawed the presented logic is...
Agreed 👍
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
I don't think he means well, I think he wants to create hype using revolutionary statements, and that makes me angry too.
I agree, i was just playing devil's advocate lol 😆
 

Axil

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Beebz
Ok well I took the time to watch the guide and it does track pretty well with Dr. Howard's recommendations. The only thing that I don't remember from the interview was 30g being the cutoff point where he suggested you swap to every other day feeding.

I don't have the same vitriol towards the maker of the video some of you guys do. He took the time to go to one of the leading voices in the field and this is the advice that was given.

I've seen people defend the 15min 3x a day rule just as enthusiastically where thier only source was some random carw sheet they had followed. I remember being concerned because Beebz would literally eat 40 roaches in 2 minutes and only stop because I cut him off and being told on reddit that if he wanted more he should be given more.

Dr. Howard's recommendations aren't even the *most* extreme I've seen some guy on Facebook was talking about having fed what I believe was a single insect a day for the first year and had taken measurements that shows his Dragon's growth. I'll try to find his article it was pretty extreme.

I found the article and I misremembered what I'd read he fed his dragon 8-10 bugs a day until 6mo and less thereafter. result are in the article.

So personally I'm glad there are people out there challenging the established practices and seeking out the doctors and scientists with thr most up to date husbandry knowledge. I just don't like how these opinions, even expert opinions, are touted as the indisputable truth without hard data to back them up.

And I'm more disappointed in Doctor Howard than I am the video author because as a doctor he ought to be aware that it takes a lot of data to prove out new ideas. Lots of new medications for example look really promising until study results come in and show downstream consequences that were unanticipated.
 
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NickAVD

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Foxy
Ok well I took the time to watch the guide and it does track pretty well with Dr. Howard's recommendations. The only thing that I don't remember from the interview was 30g being the cutoff point where he suggested you swap to every other day feeding.

I don't have the same vitriol towards the maker of the video some of you guys do. He took the time to go to one of the leading voices in the field and this is the advice that was given.

I've seen people defend the 15min 3x a day rule just as enthusiastically where thier only source was some random carw sheet they had followed. I remember being concerned because Beebz would literally eat 40 roaches in 2 minutes and only stop because I cut him off and being told on reddit that if he wanted more he should be given more.

Dr. Howard's recommendations aren't even the *most* extreme I've seen some guy on Facebook was talking about having fed what I believe was a single insect a day for the first year and had taken measurements that shows his Dragon's growth. I'll try to find his article it was pretty extreme.

So personally I'm glad there are people out there challenging the established practices and seeking out the doctors and scientists with thr most up to date husbandry knowledge. I just don't like how these opinions, even expert opinions, are touted as the indisputable truth without hard data to back them up.

And I'm more disappointed in Doctor Howard than I am the video author because as a doctor he ought to be aware that it takes a lot of data to prove out new ideas. Lots of new medications for example look really promising until study results come in and show downstream consequences that were unanticipated.
Your words make sense. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.
As @AHBD said:
"The number of insects is flexible but not to go to the severely restricted diet where they only feed a baby 4-5 insects every other day"
 

Axil

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Beebz
Your words make sense. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.
As @AHBD said:
"The number of insects is flexible but not to go to the severely restricted diet where they only feed a baby 4-5 insects every other day"
I agree. In fact I think @AHBD ought to make a feeding guide because that post was more informative and detailed than just about anything I could find out there when I was a new owner looking for info!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Original Poster
Yikes, let me dip outta here for a while. 🚣‍♂️
JK,I did write a lot about it on the first page of this thread, about 12 posts down it's a long post, can't miss it.
 
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Axil

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Beebz
Yikes, let me dip outta here for a while. 🚣‍♂️
JK,I did write a lot about it on the first page of this thread, about 12 posts down it's a long post, can't miss it.
Yup that was the post I was referring to. It explains a lot of the nuance that is missed by the more popular guides. Especially the sizing info.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Original Poster
I have slowly gotten around to listening to more of the 4 hour video, one thing that caught my attention is at the 2 hr 47 minute mark. When it comes to calcium to phosphorus ratio [ C - P ] in dubia roaches , Dr. Howard said that some studies showed as much as a 1 to 23 ratio which would be extremely off when it comes to a balanced number. The insects should be higher in calcium than phosphorus or at least closer [ in the single digits ] Has anyone heard of this before ?
 

NickAVD

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Foxy
I have slowly gotten around to listening to more of the 4 hour video, one thing that caught my attention is at the 2 hr 47 minute mark. When it comes to calcium to phosphorus ratio [ C - P ] in dubia roaches , Dr. Howard said that some studies showed as much as a 1 to 23 ratio which would be extremely off when it comes to a balanced number. The insects should be higher in calcium than phosphorus or at least closer [ in the single digits ] Has anyone heard of this before ?
I looked for information about this on Google. The first link says that the proportion is approximately 1:1.5, it’s strange that Dr. Howard talks about 1:23
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Original Poster
Yes, I'd like to see that study. It may be what the diet was but that still seems waaaay out of balance. Different feeder insect charts will vary as well but none that I've seen show such a ratio.
 

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