Help, my bearded dragon is fading with no explanation

[Gry0127]

This is my first time posting here. I'm having a problem with my bearded dragon (Brutus) and without any explanation and I wanted to see if anyone else has run into this. The vet is puzzled as well. I noticed an issue with his movement becoming erratic and increasing lethargy almost a month ago and soon after he stopped eating unless forced. He is only a year a and a half old. We are watching him fade in spite of everything we are trying. He is getting fed critical care for omnivores in the correct amounts for his body weight in addition to supers and some greens mashed up. We have some of the best lighting we can give him. Vapor basking lights, heaters, night lights along with regular daylights. Out lighting setup has been tested for UV density and was given approval by the vet. X-rays show no abnormalities with his bone structure and no cartilage where it shouldn't be. The vet ruled out MBD. He is on broad spectrum antibiotics with injections every three days which rules out infections. Fecal studies show there are no parasites and he's not internally bleeding. Blood work confirms there are no known viral infections like ADV at play. The only abnormalities with his blood work were elevated blood sugar which can partially be explained with the critical care for omnivores and the other is elevated white blood cell count which means his immune isn't shot yet but could also point to a cancer. There aren't any of the other markers present for tumors which has the vet puzzled. The vet postulated that maybe either he has a unusual tumor of some kind or he is a genetic ticking time bomb and this wasn't ever going to be avoidable. Has anyone else encountered this and if so, has it led to any other outcome besides euthanasia?

 

[KarrieRee]

This is my first time posting here. I'm having a problem with my bearded dragon (Brutus) and without any explanation and I wanted to see if anyone else has run into this. The vet is puzzled as well. I noticed an issue with his movement becoming erratic and increasing lethargy almost a month ago and soon after he stopped eating unless forced. He is only a year a and a half old. We are watching him fade in spite of everything we are trying. He is getting fed critical care for omnivores in the correct amounts for his body weight in addition to supers and some greens mashed up. We have some of the best lighting we can give him. Vapor basking lights, heaters, night lights along with regular daylights. Out lighting setup has been tested for UV density and was given approval by the vet. X-rays show no abnormalities with his bone structure and no cartilage where it shouldn't be. The vet ruled out MBD. He is on broad spectrum antibiotics with injections every three days which rules out infections. Fecal studies show there are no parasites and he's not internally bleeding. Blood work confirms there are no known viral infections like ADV at play. The only abnormalities with his blood work were elevated blood sugar which can partially be explained with the critical care for omnivores and the other is elevated white blood cell count which means his immune isn't shot yet but could also point to a cancer. There aren't any of the other markers present for tumors which has the vet puzzled. The vet postulated that maybe either he has a unusual tumor of some kind or he is a genetic ticking time bomb and this wasn't ever going to be avoidable. Has anyone else encountered this and if so, has it led to any other outcome besides euthanasia?

Out of curiosity what exactly are you using for a UVB? Surface basking temps and how your getting them please?

 

[Gry0127]

Out of curiosity what exactly are you using for a UVB? Surface basking temps and how your getting them please?

160 Watt Mercury vapor bulbs. I knew from unrelated work experience that the coil types are not nearly as potent and the actual mercury vapor bulbs. His basking temps are in the range of 100-105 depending on the ambient and this temp is confirmed with equipment I brought home from work. It's pretty hard to throw off 4 separate strip RTD's. He is usually a distance of 8-10 inches from them when basking and that is the distance the bulbs were tested at. This bulb and a backup have both been tested and are within acceptable parameters for their respective tolerances. Thank you for the question.

 

[KarrieRee]

160 Watt Mercury vapor bulbs. I knew from unrelated work experience that the coil types are not nearly as potent and the actual mercury vapor bulbs. His basking temps are in the range of 100-105 depending on the ambient and this temp is confirmed with equipment I brought home from work. It's pretty hard to throw off 4 separate strip RTD's. He is usually a distance of 8-10 inches from them when basking and that is the distance the bulbs were tested at. This bulb and a backup have both been tested and are within acceptable parameters for their respective tolerances. Thank you for the question.

What brand of MVB -- do you also have a long tube fixture for a UVB--- we often recommend a back up one and strip testing for the UVB ???? Those are unreliable -- is the MVB unobstructed? How old is the MVB? Sorry for all the questions but we always ask when people post that first come on

 

[hdochow]

you mentione night time bulbs? what kind do you have? if you have blue or red bulbs, they should not be used at all. they do not need bulbs at night as they like it cool and dark to sleep. if your home drops below around 66°, you can use a ceramic heat emitter. they give off no light, just heat.

 

[Gry0127]

What brand of MVB -- do you also have a long tube fixture for a UVB--- we often recommend a back up one and strip testing for the UVB ???? Those are unreliable -- is the MVB unobstructed? How old is the MVB? Sorry for all the questions but we always ask when people post that first come on

They are exo-terra brand bulbs. The zoo-med ones seem to have too many issues. I had them tested at the place I bought them from and they were tested at the vet's office. I tested the temperatures with strip RTD's. Resistive temperature devices. The same ones trusted to monitor unbelievably expensive hardware where I work.

 

[Gry0127]

you mentione night time bulbs? what kind do you have? if you have blue or red bulbs, they should not be used at all. they do not need bulbs at night as they like it cool and dark to sleep. if your home drops below around 66°, you can use a ceramic heat emitter. they give off no light, just heat.

There is a 40 watt red bulb at the far side of his tank that I use for observation but other than that, I use 100 watt ceramic heaters that socket into lightbulb fixtures. He sleeps inside a hide and all the lighting is on programmable timers with a day/night cycle.

 

[KarrieRee]

They are exo-terra brand bulbs. The zoo-med ones seem to have too many issues. I had them tested at the place I bought them from and they were tested at the vet's office. I tested the temperatures with strip RTD's. Resistive temperature devices. The same ones trusted to monitor unbelievably expensive hardware where I work.

Well the Exo Terra brand for basking bulbs are great -- as long as they are a solid clear bright white bulb --recommended the Intense bulb the most accurate way to get surface basking temps is w/ a digital probe thermometer-- and the most recommended MVB on this site are Power Sun or Mega Ray -- I however am not a fan of MVB and just use the standard basking bulb and long tube UVB-- MVB's haft to be certain distance to get correct UVB unobstructed along w/ surface basking temps - recommended UVB's on this site are Zoo Med -- Arcadia Pro T 5 12% bulb 24 watt and or the Sunblaster Nano Tech w/ the Reptisun 10.0 T5 -- the dragon is not very old and w/ incorrect lighting and temps he would of gotten sick -- surface basking temps and UVB are crucial to their over all health -- I have 2 Zoo Med fixtures and have never had a issue w/ either one of them

 

[Gry0127]

Well the Exo Terra brand for basking bulbs are great -- as long as they are a solid clear bright white bulb --recommended the Intense bulb the most accurate way to get surface basking temps is w/ a digital probe thermometer-- and the most recommended MVB on this site are Power Sun or Mega Ray -- I however am not a fan of MVB and just use the standard basking bulb and long tube UVB-- MVB's haft to be certain distance to get correct UVB unobstructed along w/ surface basking temps - recommended UVB's on this site are Zoo Med -- Arcadia Pro T 5 12% bulb 24 watt and or the Sunblaster Nano Tech w/ the Reptisun 10.0 T5 -- the dragon is not very old and w/ incorrect lighting and temps he would of gotten sick -- surface basking temps and UVB are crucial to their over all health -- I have 2 Zoo Med fixtures and have never had a issue w/ either one of them

Both the primary and backup bulbs were given the ok by the vet. I'll also say that the vet specializes in reptiles and has them himself. The lights are unobstructed by mesh, plexi, or glass

 

[KarrieRee]

Both the primary and backup bulbs were given the ok by the vet. I'll also say that the vet specializes in reptiles and has them himself. The lights are unobstructed by mesh, plexi, or glass

The dragon will not eat w/ out the correct lighting or temps that is the first sign of illness -- sorry but I have been advising people about lighting for years and have had a lot of success w/ this -- hes not able to absorb/ synthesize the calcium hes getting w/out correct UVB -- I can have the vet tech on the board look at your post and see what Tracie has to say --
@Drache613

 

[Gry0127]

The dragon will not eat w/ out the correct lighting or temps that is the first sign of illness -- sorry but I have been advising people about lighting for years and have had a lot of success w/ this -- hes not able to absorb/ synthesize the calcium hes getting w/out correct UVB -- I can have the vet tech on the board look at your post and see what Tracie has to say --
@Drache613

Thank you. We have been playing a rather expensive game of whack-a-mole and feel like time is not on our side.

 

[AHBD]

I'm so sorry to hear about these problems. Can you post a few pics of the entire enclosure , some showing bulb placement ? You mentioned that you use 100 watt CHE's,[ plural ] are there 2 of them and much heat do you have in the night ?

 

[KarrieRee]

There is a 40 watt red bulb at the far side of his tank that I use for observation but other than that, I use 100 watt ceramic heaters that socket into lightbulb fixtures. He sleeps inside a hide and all the lighting is on programmable timers with a day/night cycle.

Colored bulbs disrupt sleep and damage the third eye on top of their heads please get rid of it-- che's are good if your tank is falling below 65 at night but since your dragon is ill I would keep his ambient temp around 80 at night-

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry your young dragon is having so much trouble. I'm
happy that you have been diligent with your lighting & working
hard to get things right for him.
Lighting is crucial, for overall health as I know already know
this!
The Exoterra brand is good. Are you using the Solar Glo MVB
light, 160 watt? Can you remember what the UVB readings
were that the vet measured?
Pictures would be helpful of your tank setup, so we can see how everything is set up. What type of thermometer are you using to measure the temperatures?
Do you have a copy of the blood test you could post here for us, I will look over it.

Tracie