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Gout, what to do from here? Pics Attached

bayoupig5

Sub-Adult Member
I know that black cherry juice and bee pollen can be used, but how often and for how long?

Husbandry
Enclosure: custom 4 foot by 2 foot by 2 foot
Temps: Basking 97 to 100 F
Cool Side: 75 to 78 F daytime and as low as 67 or 67 night
UVB: Arcadia Tube last changed in July 2021
Vitamins: Always use Reptical Calcium and Repcal Multi - recently switched to Repashy Calcium Plus and adding extra calcium
Food - Dubia, superworms, offer veggies every 2nd day, but none are ever eaten and go dry. Feed slurries veggies as much as I can.
Water - weekly baths, but most of the time she will not drink

Akasha developed a swollen foot after a shed, no sign of sickness prior, other than laziness with eating, which is nothing new for her. She would rather be served directly than hunt for her food (most of my dragons have been like this). She is a very healthy weight. Blood work was very shocking to me, very! Given the fact that She has always had calcium and UVB.

Phosphorous (off the chart) - 13.95
Calcium -0.02 ?!
Uric Acid - 0 ?!
Report - no concern for liver or kidney disease at this time

All kidney function and liver function test were within normal, but a cytology showed Gram Positive Rods and Uric Acid Crystals. (I can provide other test numbers if required)

I have been giving her syringe vitamin water every two to three days in brumation to keep her hydrated. I am hoping to boost her hydration an calcium as much as possible, but cannot for the life of me figure out how she got so deficient in the first place.
 

Shinryu

Hatchling Member
Staff member
Lead Writer
Thank you so much for providing such a detailed description of your husbandry practices. I will tag @Drache613 and @AHBD to review your question since they have some veterinary experience. You sound like an experienced keeper and husbandry looks pretty good. Is the Arcadia tube a T5 or T8? If T8, it should be mounted inside the tank/under the screen. Just to confirm, your beardie is currently in brumation and you're trying to keep her hydrated, correct? I had some other suggestions for improving hydration but I don't think they would work in brumation.

How often were you doing the calcium and the vitamins, and how often do you do Repashy Calcium Plus?

As far as your bee pollen question, I found this helpful thread.


I also found this thread where Tracie (Drache613) explains some of the more common reasons for gout and recommends black cherry extract.

There are quite a few posts regarding gout on the forums so you could take a look until other folks have a chance to chime in regarding your specific situation. I hope Akasha starts to feel better soon! I'm sorry you received this most unexpected diagnosis.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Those values are surprising. So the vet said it was gout, due to the tophi or uric acid crystallization? Do you have pictures
of your dragon so we can see the swelling?
Is there any other areas of concern? It is possible to have an infection in that area with uric acid crystals but not have gout.
What do you feed the dubias?
The Arcadia tube bulbs are very good also. Are you using the T8 or the T5?
Black cherry or tart cherry juice is very helpful for gout. A picture would be helpful but it is surprising the uric acid levels are
so low right now!
Genetics play a role oftentimes when it comes to health problems or inbreeding can affect outcomes, too.

Tracie
 

bayoupig5

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Hello, thanks to Shinryu for the tags :) I know Drache613 and AHBD well through all the yeas of this forum, and as always appreciate all the advice and help through the years.

As for additional info I did not get to on the previous post. This blood work was done at the end of August, the vet wanted to redo again along with x-rays but unfortunately, due to other vet concerns with my plethora of pets ($2500.00 in bills over 2 mon. and an upcoming rabbit neuter), I honestly could not afford to do this. I opted for a more conservative approach. At the visit with the vet on Nov 1. 2021. A FNA and Cytology was done that showed Gram Negative Rods and Uric Acid Crystals in the foot sample, hence gout was diagnosed.

At the first vet visit in August when the swelling was first noticed, there were no concerns with any signs of kidney or liver disease, but definite signs of MBD based on the very low calcium numbers and high phosphorous count. Baytril and Metcam were given, and it was suggested I try Beardie Buffet. Beardie buffet was given, about 2 time's per week with homemade veggie slurries 2-3 times per week. Multivitamin was give once per week and given the very low calcium, calcium was added to each meal in large amounts.

After this treatment, swelling had gone down quite a bit, but was still present. So now Akasha is on Ceftazidime for three weeks.

Dubias are fed oats, and various fruits and veggies (I have also supplemented the beardie diet with superowrms). The Arcadia bulb is a T5 mounted to inside of the viv, 10 inches from basking spot. Beardies were out in the summer during nice days for natural UVB as well.

As all of my beardies have never and will never eat veggies as much as they should. I have prepared various dry powders myself with my dehydrator to include, collard, alfalfa, butternut squash, mint, rosemary, basil and kale. Although now that they are in brumation, I have not been able to feed this slurry yet.

As calcium levels are low, I am giving syringed water mixed with vitamins, every two to three days to keep beardies well hydrated while in bruamtion.
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Hello, thanks to Shinryu for the tags :) I know Drache613 and AHBD well through all the yeas of this forum, and as always appreciate all the advice and help through the years.

As for additional info I did not get to on the previous post. This blood work was done at the end of August, the vet wanted to redo again along with x-rays but unfortunately, due to other vet concerns with my plethora of pets ($2500.00 in bills over 2 mon. and an upcoming rabbit neuter), I honestly could not afford to do this. I opted for a more conservative approach. At the visit with the vet on Nov 1. 2021. A FNA and Cytology was done that showed Gram Negative Rods and Uric Acid Crystals in the foot sample, hence gout was diagnosed.

At the first vet visit in August when the swelling was first noticed, there were no concerns with any signs of kidney or liver disease, but definite signs of MBD based on the very low calcium numbers and high phosphorous count. Baytril and Metcam were given, and it was suggested I try Beardie Buffet. Beardie buffet was given, about 2 time's per week with homemade veggie slurries 2-3 times per week. Multivitamin was give once per week and given the very low calcium, calcium was added to each meal in large amounts.

After this treatment, swelling had gone down quite a bit, but was still present. So now Akasha is on Ceftazidime for three weeks.

Dubias are fed oats, and various fruits and veggies (I have also supplemented the beardie diet with superowrms). The Arcadia bulb is a T5 mounted to inside of the viv, 10 inches from basking spot. Beardies were out in the summer during nice days for natural UVB as well.

As all of my beardies have never and will never eat veggies as much as they should. I have prepared various dry powders myself with my dehydrator to include, collard, alfalfa, butternut squash, mint, rosemary, basil and kale. Although now that they are in brumation, I have not been able to feed this slurry yet.

As calcium levels are low, I am giving syringed water mixed with vitamins, every two to three days to keep beardies well hydrated while in bruamtion.
If your UVB fixture does not have a reflector on it please get one -- its better that the UVB rays are being projected downward toward him --- also I would look at getting it off the back wall and have it directly over him -- depending on the bulb will determine distance over basking decor piece
 

bayoupig5

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
If your UVB fixture does not have a reflector on it please get one -- its better that the UVB rays are being projected downward toward him --- also I would look at getting it off the back wall and have it directly over him -- depending on the bulb will determine distance over basking decor piece
The UVB fixture is not mounted to the back of the viv. It is hung by wire not quite center of the viv top and directly over the basking area. The bulb in question is an Arcadia T5 12% HO (high output). This UVB light manufacturer suggests a reflector when used 18 to 24 inches away from the animal, however, it can be used without a reflector in closer ranges (12 inches and under). When used in closer range a reflector is not suggest and can be dangerous, according to the manufacturer.
 
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