GOUT or Arthritis???

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yoshilaca

Member
Beardie name(s)
Yoshi
Hello! I am hoping someone can help us figure out what is wrong with our 15 month old, 13 in long fancy bearded dragon Yoshi. We noticed tonight his left wrist area was very swollen. I have been reading on these forums assuming it was gout, tried to order the meds but couldn't, and happened across one that mention a type of arthritis. The UVB light is the Zilla Desert Flourescent UVB/UVA bulb 20 watt. It is almost exactly 1 year old.

His appetite has been normal- he normally eats 4-5 large dubia roaches a day and maybe 3-5 crickets (they free range in his bioactive enclosure). He feeds on bearded dragon safe live plants that are also planted in his enclosure- he LOVES his cage! He is normally such a happy dude but he definitely seems a little 'off' with this swelling situation.

We live in a very rural area with no specialty vets as an option for us.

I feel awful if this is from inadequate lighting- I am ordering the UVA that I have seen on this site as being the best to purchase.

I am so thankful I found this site and am hoping to hear from you all on what steps we should take!

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yoshilaca

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Yoshi
I should also mention it looks like his bowel movements have been normal with the urate prominent- not sure if that is valuable information. It can be hard to tell because of the real soil but there are definitely fairly recent urate visible.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

He is definitely a colorful handsome boy indeed. I would definitely change out the Zilla tube
bulb to either a Reptisun 10 T5 tube or the Arcadia D3 12% T5 tube. They are both great &
high UVB output & they last for a good amount of time.
How often do you give calcium for him & do you use calcium with or without D3?
It is possible he is developing pseudo gout or secondary gout caused by inadequate UVB or
nutrition, etc but it is reversible. You could try treating it with a better UVB light & starting him
on a black or tart cherry juice extract to help with his kidneys.
I would keep the insects to a minimum right now, to help his kidney function right now.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

yoshilaca

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Yoshi
Thank you so much for the response and information!! I don't give him any supplements... this gives me a pit in my gut that we have missed something necessary in his diet! Please let me know what supplementation he needs and i will get it immediately, thank you!

So you don't think this is full on gout at this point? Do you mind explaining why this may be reversible while true gout is not? Thank you so much for your expertise and time!!
 

yoshilaca

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Yoshi
@Drache613 - do you suggest I try the allopurinol?? I have had no luck finding anything online that doesn't require an rx.

I've also been reading that you suggested the alfalfa powder as a good protein alternative- should I administer that via syringe? If so, how much at a time?

What dose of the cherry concentrate do you suggest? I was able to get about .8ml down him tonight. I did also coat a few crickets with the calcium powder I purchased (pictured above) and he ate 2 of them. I am stressing about what I can feed him consistently with the powder that I know he will readily consume.

He isn't moving as freely around his cage so I'm getting more and more concerned as time is going by!

Again, thank you for your time and expertise.
 
Yoshi is a wonderful name for a male bearded dragon. You like Mario Bros. as much I do! I hope he gets better.
It makes me sad to see a bearded bragon ill. Hang in there. Bearded dragons sometimes take a long time to recover. I dont own a bearded dragon but I do have a medium size dog that is spayed. Her name is Bella.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Gout can be tricky to diagnose but with careful changes to diet, etc many times it can be
reversed. Pseudogout is secondary gout & is usually caused by husbandry problems & is
short term or more quick to come on so there is less renal damage, if any. Primary or visceral
gout is more serious because it can be genetic or caused by continuous use of medications which
will be slower to come on. Repeated use of antibiotics can do a lot of damage on the kidneys that
may not be able to be reversed. When pseudogout is present it many times isn't caused so much
by renal damage but just compromised absorption making it harder on the kidneys. If caught early,
it can be reversed before it damages the kidneys.
Genetic flaws can be causes of malfunctioning kidneys or malformed kidneys from birth which is not
reversible. Damage from long term use or improper use of antibiotics can damage renal cells that
will cause glomular damage affecting function.
If you decide to use the black or tart cherry, you can use full strength or diluted either way. You can
start with .5ml to 1ml daily. So the .8ml is fine. You can go up to a full 1ml daily. The Alfalfa leaf
powder is purine free & a good form of protein that is kidney friendly. I don't think it is full blown gout
but you definitely need to get it taken care of so he wont develop full blown gout or have kidney issues.
That is entirely up to you if you wanted to try the Allopurinol. Let me know if you wanted to give it a try,
I can help with that.
I would use the Reptivite sparingly, just 1 maybe 2 times weekly, max. It is vitamins with D3 & I would
limit the D3 right now, especially if he has a good UVB light now. Use just a plain calcium supplement
without D3 included a few times per week.

Tracie
 

yoshilaca

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Yoshi
Hello,

Gout can be tricky to diagnose but with careful changes to diet, etc many times it can be
reversed. Pseudogout is secondary gout & is usually caused by husbandry problems & is
short term or more quick to come on so there is less renal damage, if any. Primary or visceral
gout is more serious because it can be genetic or caused by continuous use of medications which
will be slower to come on. Repeated use of antibiotics can do a lot of damage on the kidneys that
may not be able to be reversed. When pseudogout is present it many times isn't caused so much
by renal damage but just compromised absorption making it harder on the kidneys. If caught early,
it can be reversed before it damages the kidneys.
Genetic flaws can be causes of malfunctioning kidneys or malformed kidneys from birth which is not
reversible. Damage from long term use or improper use of antibiotics can damage renal cells that
will cause glomular damage affecting function.
If you decide to use the black or tart cherry, you can use full strength or diluted either way. You can
start with .5ml to 1ml daily. So the .8ml is fine. You can go up to a full 1ml daily. The Alfalfa leaf
powder is purine free & a good form of protein that is kidney friendly. I don't think it is full blown gout
but you definitely need to get it taken care of so he wont develop full blown gout or have kidney issues.
That is entirely up to you if you wanted to try the Allopurinol. Let me know if you wanted to give it a try,
I can help with that.
I would use the Reptivite sparingly, just 1 maybe 2 times weekly, max. It is vitamins with D3 & I would
limit the D3 right now, especially if he has a good UVB light now. Use just a plain calcium supplement
without D3 included a few times per week.

Tracie
Thank you so much for all of this information!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

You are welcome. Let me know if you have more questions & how your boy
is doing.

Tracie
 
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