Gogga is not looking well

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duckie

Member
We stay in South Africa and we have summer now. We have 2 beardies Gogga (female) & Bug (mail). Gogga is 11 months old now and Bug couple of weeks younger. They have been staying together since we got them. The other day we noticed that it was mating season, after there hibernation period of about 3 months. They were slow on starting to eat again, but 2 weeks ago after giving them gaga grubs they started eating crickets again. Not a lot of veggies though. Gogga has been looking very fat and round since they got up after their sleep. They have also been very busy and don’t want to stay in the cage anymore. We have to take them out the whole time, and sit outside in the sun or let them run in the house. They have a good uv bulb in the cage and a basking spot. The temp is fine as far as we know. When we got them we had astro carpet in the tank which we bought form a pet shop. Just before hibernation we put river sand in the tank and they buried into the sand to sleep. After they got up Bug got very agitated and we put the astro back. We put a cat box full of wet desert sand in the cage with them. They would scratch around in the box but nothing more. Today I noticed that Gogga (female) is looking very lethargic and keeps her eyes shut the whole time. She would just open them for a few seconds at a time. They also just kicked all the crickets out today and didn't eat anything. Early this afternoon one of them made a big mess in the cage and we had to take the astro carpet out. Which left the river sand. Soon after we took the carpet out Gogga dug a small hole and went to sleep. She is just not looking like she normally does and we are very concerned about her, it seems that she just wants to sleep, keeping her eyes shut almost the whole time. We have noticed the sleeping already yesterday but weren’t too concerned about it, but today it really got allot worse, and we are very concerned. We hope there is someone out there that can help us. Thanks Duckie
 

LJean

Extreme Poster
Did they mate?
11 months is too young for a female to mate. Should be 18 months old, perferably 2yrs old.
Is the male stressing her out a bit trying to mate.

I'm sure someone will come along and be able to help otherwise.
 

duckie

Member
Original Poster
They they have definitely mated. What should we do now? We are new at having beardies, so all these things are new to us. Thanks for the help.
 

LJean

Extreme Poster
oh no..
I don't know how to help a young beardie who has mated. I'm sure someone with more knowledge about this situation will reply when they see the post.

But I think you need to seperate them as soon as possible.
 

ArdorAndZeal1

Hatchling Member
ya -

credit to sundial reptile: http://www.sundialreptile.com/care sheet--bearded dragon.htm
Breeding:
*Note: Bearded dragon females may cycle infertile eggs without breeding.
Breeding often requires a period of hibernation or brumation prior to the breeding season (see section on hibernation). When bearded dragons emerge from hibernation, breeding usually takes place quickly, so it is important to be prepared…
We suggest that your dragons (specifically females) be at least 18 months-old prior to breeding. Any small, sick, or young females should be separated from all males to prevent cycling, breeding, and potentially a loss of life. Dragons that are bred too young can wind up with serious health problems including death from egg binding. We cannot stress enough how important it is to have a healthy, mature female. Dragons bred before maturity will divert energy used for growing and maturity into making eggs, disrupting her growth process and altering her health. Female dragons bred too young and/or often will live shorter lives.
We also highly suggest steering clear of inbreeding, especially siblings.

Breeding behavior often appears violent. Head bobbing and black beards are among the breeding behaviors associated with males (*note: these behaviors are also typical of territorial disputes between males). Females often perform arm waving and slow head bobbing. The male usually bites the female around the neck to secure her and attempts to get the female to lift her tail for copulation.
Gravid females will get quite large and often appear lumpy. Feed gravid females often and supplement with calcium more frequently. The eggs can often be felt in the female's stomach when she is close to laying.
As soon as you see breeding behavior it is a good idea to have a lay area in place and an incubator prepared.
A good lay area is imperative to ensure that your bearded dragon does not egg bind. Lay areas may consist of a large area filled with one foot of a mixture of moist, somewhat packed sand and soil, peat moss, or bed-a-beast. You may set up this lay area inside the enclosure or prepare a separate lay enclosure to place the female in when you notice digging behavior. Females will tunnel into this area to deposit their eggs. Some dig for several days before they decide to lay. They like to be fully protected by their burrow (cat litter pans with an opening work well for this cave-like structure). Only her head will stick out while she deposit their eggs. After laying, the female will emerge and bury her eggs back up.
Females may lay clutches as often as 3 weeks apart and can retain sperm for several clutches.

hope this helps, keep us posted
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Hi
I am sorry to hear about your troubles.First let me ask you is your female looking very plump?Can you feel any lumps,if so where? She most likely will not lay her eggs in the presence of a male so you will need to seperate them.However the big roblem here is she was far too young to be mated.Females have to be 2years old or there is a serious risk of egg binding.any chance you can get her to the vet for an XRay?She will also need a laybox.Some wet sand mixed with soil or vermiculite is good but make sure the consistency is good enough for her to tunnel and burrow in.Also what are you giving in the way of calcium?What exactly are the temps and where and how are you taking them?You said you have a good uvb,may I ask which one and how old is it?Males and females really shouldnt be housed together for reasons such as these althoug I am sure the petstore/breeder told you otherwise.How big/long is your female?You also must be prepared that one mating will lead to up to 3 or 4 clutches of eggs so even if she gets passed this, your going to have to do your best to keep her health and nutrition up.
 

duckie

Member
Original Poster
Hi there. O yeah she is definitely plump. When I pick her up she blows her stomach up so I can’t manage to see any lumps. I went to check on her now she won’t let me pick her up. I am concerned about this, she normally loves attention. Wasn’t aware of the fact that she is too young, pet shops don’t tell you these things. We have a cat box with fine desert sand in the cage. Maybe I should mix some vermiculite in with that. Will separate her from the male today. The temps normally stay just above a 100degrees. The uv used to be a Repti Gloor Exo Terra I am not sure we don’t have the box anymore, but I couldn’t manage to find one this time. So we bought a uv from the pet store where we buy our food and they were not in marked boxes, we checked with the pet store owner and she said it’s the same lamp she uses for her bearded dragons, and that it is the correct uv. This has been in the cage for about a week now. How long should the uv stay on every day? Maybe I should rather go and try and find another uv this morning. The temp cage is in the bottom of the cage about in the middle near the basking spot, that is where the pet store told us to place it. Exo terra thermometer. We used to use T-Rex calcium powder but couldn’t manage to get that again the last time we bought. Then we bought Komodo Calcium plus, on the pet stores recommendations. Gogga is about 37cm = 14-15 inches. I notice that the male is also keeping his eyes closed this morning. They are both sitting on the basking spot now. Gogga on top. Poor Bug he is getting squashed. I notice that Bug is a very dark color this morning. I have just changed the basking lamp to an Exo Terra basking lamp, which I bought this week. Is it possible that this is getting caused by the uv which might be the wrong lamp? I will in any case go out this morning and see if I can find an Exo Terra uv lamp. Didn’t know that one breading can lead to 3 or 4 clutches of eggs. Will definitely in any case go out now and buy another uv bulb, and will be moving her to her own cage today. I wonder if you could tell me, we are busy building the new cage that should be finished today. Can we put washed playpen sand in the cage and then the cat box with desert sand mixed with vermiculite? Or rather no playpen sand? Thanks for all the help, replies and all the links I will be reading them, we appreciate it. We all love the beardies the best pets we ever had.
 

LJean

Extreme Poster
If you have a proper UVB light, the name will be stamped on the bulb.
The best UVB lights are the (long tube) ReptiSun 10, The (long tube) ReptiGLO 8, the arcadia D3, and mercury vapor bulbs (Megaray, T Rex ActiveUV Heat, and Solar Glo)

Compacts and coil bulbs are generally not recommended.

Washed and sifted playsand is fine to use as a substrate for an adult dragon. I think mixing in the vermiculite is a good idea for the nesting box.

I really don't know anything else to help you as my female dragon is still a baby.
 

akingsley9000

Gray-bearded Member
Its good that you are going to separate them. Did you get a chance to check out the brand of the bulb?

When you do separate them, i highly suggest moving the male and leaving the female in the enclosure she is already in to avoid causing her relocation stress.

What are your temps? How are you taking them? ie. temp gun, digital with a probe, stick on strip or round gage.

~Allison
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Yes the uvb and the temps will make all the differance in the world so if you can please take a look at the bulb.I agree is possible the best bulb types are reptisun 10.0 or 5.0,reptiglo 8.0(only 8.0) and if they carry it near you the Arcadia w/d3.I would still seperate them especially since she most likely is gravid as I stated many wont lay in the presence of the male.The sifted playsand is fine and you can wet it down if needed.Any chance of getting her to the vet for an XRay?
 

duckie

Member
Original Poster
Hi all. Thanks for all the help, advice and replies. We had Gogga and Bug at the vet this afternoon. The uv bulb in the cage was the wrong one, so there eyes are a bit sore. They also have worms so the vet dewormed them both. She also gave Gogga some antibiotics just in case she has an infection, and said I must phone her to give report back. There is definitely eggs and the vet said if her conditions worsens we should bring her back, or if she hasn’t improved in three days. We moved Bug to the new cage while he was sleeping, after we finished the cage tonight. We put him under his new cave so he hasn’t seen the cage yet. Wait until he wakes up tomorrow. Hehehe…. The vet said Gogga is big enough so there shouldn’t be any problems with the egg laying but obviously there is no guarantee. The vet also said that there is no blockage. I have order a Reptisun 10.0 uv (long tube) and will be able to fetch it on Monday. Tomorrow we will be sitting in the sun. We measure the temp with a round Exa terra thermometer on the inside of the tank. It is stuck almost at the bottom of the side panel in the basking spot area. We have checked and the temps are within the correct range. 100 degrees or bit more.
 

ArdorAndZeal1

Hatchling Member
well thanks for the update!

I know that there is a pretty important diet shift that egg carrying beardies should go on, involving fat and calcium.

Hopefully, an experienced handler with this can give you the right advice here.
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Oh thats good that you had them at the vet.So the uvb was bad?Good that you found out before too much damage was done.I do want to recommend one thing.The thermometer your using should rally be canged out for a digital with a probe on it.They are fairly inexpensive.The reason why is because the round type are inaccurate and also when your reading temps what your goalis to measure the actual surface temp of the basking spot which should be 95F-105F.You do not want the ambient aire temp to be that temp,it would be too hot.Also you want to aim for a temp of 75F-80(no higher) air temp on the cool side of the tank.Please keep us posted on both of their progress.If there eyes are irritated I recommend you dont use any uvb for a few days to allow them to heal.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is she doing today? I am not sure about the antibiotics while she is gravid, unless he could actually confirm an infection. Being gravid at that age is hard enough but the meds are harsh on her system too.
It is not wise to medicate unless you know what you are medicating for.
Good you are going to be getting a new UVB too that will help. Just make sure she is getting adequate calcium 5 times per week, along with plenty of fluids.
Please keep us posted on her.

Tracie
 
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