Glass surfing troubleshooting

[MarleyAndLennon]

She’s about 3 months old
40 gallon tank
Cool side temp 77 (taken with IR gun)
Warm side temp 90 (taken with IR gun)
Basking spot 105-109 (taken with IR gun)
Greens (eats here and there) bok choy/cilantro/collard greens
Insects: crickets/Dubia (did NOT like BSFL)
We are at the tail end of pin worm/coccidia treatment (recheck fecal in 1 month)
Basking bulb: 100 wattZoo Med repti basking spot lamp
UVB: Arcadia pro t5 12% (resting on wide hole screen top) 9” from basking spot
Poops once a day (formed but a little mucous, white urates, excess water released as well)
Current substrate is paper towel since we are going through deworming. Otherwise it’s repticarpet.
She JUST went through her first shed.
She’s very small for her age, I believe due to the parasites.

She’s always been a glass surfer (was surfing at petsmart when we got her- had no idea it was a sign of stress until it was too late and have deep regrets about getting her from petsmart) but it’s worse the past few days. She has a background on her tank- didn’t help. Went so far as to tape paper on the inside of the tank walls thinking she could still see her reflection- didn’t help. Cage is kept VERY clean , esp. since we are treating for coccidia. Other pets not allowed in this room. I’ve read every thread I can find about this and I’ve gone downthe list of possibilities and im stumped. Im so worried she’s stressing herself out and making the coccidia worse. She doesn’t like being held yet, we are working on bonding so it seems stressful to her when I try and take her out of her tank (thinking she may want change of scenery). Please help, I hate seeing her (?) so anxious and not be able to identify what’s wrong,

 

[Rubble1212]

This is a tuff one since everything about your setup seems pretty solid? How is her basking behavior does she spend a lot of time basking? Or more time surfing? If she’s eating and pooping daily that’s a great sign so you have that going for you I’d be much more concerned if she wasn’t doing those two things. It sounds like it may be something environmental but of course I’m not sure. Is there anything in the enclosure that’s similar to what was in the enclosure she was in at petsmart as far as decor? It’s so hard to pinpoint anything specific. When you put the paper on the sides was on the outside of the glass or the inside? If you put it on the outside it makes the reflection of herself in the glass even worse. Try putting it in the inside if you haven’t already. I want to help I just don’t know how exactly.

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

This is a tuff one since everything about your setup seems pretty solid? How is her basking behavior does she spend a lot of time basking? Or more time surfing? If she’s eating and pooping daily that’s a great sign so you have that going for you I’d be much more concerned if she wasn’t doing those two things. It sounds like it may be something environmental but of course I’m not sure. Is there anything in the enclosure that’s similar to what was in the enclosure she was in at petsmart as far as decor? It’s so hard to pinpoint anything specific. When you put the paper on the sides was on the outside of the glass or the inside? If you put it on the outside it makes the reflection of herself in the glass even worse. Try putting it in the inside if you haven’t already. I want to help I just don’t know how exactly.

Thank you for your reply! I’m at a complete loss. The paper was on the inside. She was doing a solid amount of basking the past few weeks but the past few days she will bask for a bit then go back to pacing. We have one item in her enclosure now that is the same as she had at petsmart (and she willingly longed on it?). I’m at a complete loss and just want her to be happy. I know the stress isn’t helping her parasite issue. I should mention she is also on a daily probiotic, weekly multi vitamin. We did try and take her out for some roaming time but shes so tiny and just frantically runs everywhere, she didn’t seem to enjoy it. My life has been consumed by this dragon

 

[Rubble1212]

Yep and be prepared to be consumed for the remainder of her life lol it’s been 4 years and I’m exactly the same as I was the first few weeks it’s how we show our love. So try taking one thing at a time out of the viv and leave a basking decor item and a hide or two and keep it really simple. Observing each time her behavior and see if it changes when you remove that item. Maybe even try a towel on the bottom instead of paper towels or put the reptile carpet back in and each time you do something watch her closely I bet it something really silly and simple but just try everything you can think of. These guy’s have a way of causing us so much anxiety but give it time and let her settle in especially after the meds it’ll take a little while. If you bring her out cut a big cardboard box so it’s open on the top and she can’t escape but big enough she can run around a little. Line it with something with a little grip cardboard is slippery.

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

Yep and be prepared to be consumed for the remainder of her life lol it’s been 4 years and I’m exactly the same as I was the first few weeks it’s how we show our love. So try taking one thing at a time out of the viv and leave a basking decor item and a hide or two and keep it really simple. Observing each time her behavior and see if it changes when you remove that item. Maybe even try a towel on the bottom instead of paper towels or put the reptile carpet back in and each time you do something watch her closely I bet it something really silly and simple but just try everything you can think of. These guy’s have a way of causing us so much anxiety but give it time and let her settle in especially after the meds it’ll take a little while. If you bring her out cut a big cardboard box so it’s open on the top and she can’t escape but big enough she can run around a little. Line it with something with a little grip cardboard is slippery.

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

This was supposed to be my 13 year old dragon and we all know how that goes so now I’m absolutely obsessed with her but she’s making my already high anxiety higher. Sheesh! I will take your recommendations, thank you! I’ve read they’re already sensitive to change so I can only image the stress I will bring when I start messing with her stuff. She’s already down to pretty bare basics since we are going through deworming and everything needs to be sanitized. I just want her to be happy and healthy and it’s hurting my heart that I feel like I can’t help her right now.

 

[Rubble1212]

I know it’s really hard just love her and be as calm as you can because I swear they can read our anxiety and project it right back to us and take it on themselves to show us our own emotions in their behavior.

 

[KarrieRee]

I don't know what some of your decor is made out of but some IR guns do not read off of certain materials- I would recommend getting 2 digital probe thermometers - they are the most accurate- place the probe on the spot where she sits for basking that will give you the most accurate temps-- everything sounds good in the tank -- is your tank next to a window where she can see birds- that can cause anxiety and stress marks - she is larger you said for her size - she may feel cramped- are you getting her out for a period of time ? If so what is her behavior like after you put her back in?

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

I don't know what some of your decor is made out of but some IR guns do not read off of certain materials- I would recommend getting 2 digital probe thermometers - they are the most accurate- place the probe on the spot where she sits for basking that will give you the most accurate temps-- everything sounds good in the tank -- is your tank next to a window where she can see birds- that can cause anxiety and stress marks - she is larger you said for her size - she may feel cramped- are you getting her out for a period of time ? If so what is her behavior like after you put her back in?

I will look into the probes, I thought the IR gun was a good choice but now I’m questioning it. Tank is not next to a window and we have a background on 3 sides. She is tiny for her age (currently at the tail end of pinworm/coccidia treatment). She’s never had a huge appetite (at least, from what I read of other dragons) but she does eat. She is offered greens first (before bugs) in the morning so I can try to make sure she gets her salad for the day. She doesn’t love it but she will entertain me by eating a few pieces and looking disgruntled She doesn’t love being out of her tank , or if she does, she hides it well. She’s about 8” long and quick so I’m very careful with her- no free roaming until she gets bigger. We have a very large wooden box that I’ve lined and tried letting her run in but she just surfs the walls of that as well. I just don’t know what to do for her. As my original post said, she was surfing at Petsmart when we got her and we just thought she was active, I had no idea it was a stress thing until it was too late. So, she’s always been a glass dancer, it just seems to be magnified recently. I would love it if just taking her out of her tank for a change of pace was the answer but judging by how she’s been acting when we do- it’s not. I’ll definitely grab probe thermometers tomorrow though- thank you for that info!

 

[KarrieRee]

I will look into the probes, I thought the IR gun was a good choice but now I’m questioning it. Tank is not next to a window and we have a background on 3 sides. She is tiny for her age (currently at the tail end of pinworm/coccidia treatment). She’s never had a huge appetite (at least, from what I read of other dragons) but she does eat. She is offered greens first (before bugs) in the morning so I can try to make sure she gets her salad for the day. She doesn’t love it but she will entertain me by eating a few pieces and looking disgruntled She doesn’t love being out of her tank , or if she does, she hides it well. She’s about 8” long and quick so I’m very careful with her- no free roaming until she gets bigger. We have a very large wooden box that I’ve lined and tried letting her run in but she just surfs the walls of that as well. I just don’t know what to do for her. As my original post said, she was surfing at Petsmart when we got her and we just thought she was active, I had no idea it was a stress thing until it was too late. So, she’s always been a glass dancer, it just seems to be magnified recently. I would love it if just taking her out of her tank for a change of pace was the answer but judging by how she’s been acting when we do- it’s not. I’ll definitely grab probe thermometers tomorrow though- thank you for that info!

yes IR guns are good to have on hand but your probes are best for accurate temps- w/ her glass or wood surfing outside of the tank too is odd- usually they are side tracked by being out and looking around- how long has she been doing this? I know you said its been worse the last few days- does she have stress marks on her? I am thinking its just her and hopefully she will settle down here

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

yes IR guns are good to have on hand but your probes are best for accurate temps- w/ her glass or wood surfing outside of the tank too is odd- usually they are side tracked by being out and looking around- how long has she been doing this? I know you said its been worse the last few days- does she have stress marks on her? I am thinking its just her and hopefully she will settle down here

She’s been glass surfing since the day we got her. At first when I looked into it I chalked it up to relocation stress but it’s never stopped- are some dragons just naturally anxious? Her stress marks come and go. She’s NEVER hissed, puffed up or black bearded at us. She just seems like she’s always getting herself worked up. She’s been very patient through the deworming- it’s not easy to have some lady in your face with a syringe so often She has me stumped.

 

[KarrieRee]

She’s been glass surfing since the day we got her. At first when I looked into it I chalked it up to relocation stress but it’s never stopped- are some dragons just naturally anxious? Her stress marks come and go. She’s NEVER hissed, puffed up or black bearded at us. She just seems like she’s always getting herself worked up. She’s been very patient through the deworming- it’s not easy to have some lady in your face with a syringe so often She has me stumped.

Me too- it may just be her- let's see what others say
@CooperDragon
@AHBD
@Drache613

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

Me too- it may just be her- let's see what others say
@CooperDragon
@AHBD
@Drache613

Thank you for tagging!! All I’ve been doing is reading other posts about this and I’d give anything to have it be an easy fix but when I go down the “probable causes” list nothing jumps out. Her tank isn’t dirty, it’s not too small, she’s not housed with other dragons, no other animals in this room, tried to minimize her reflection, she has a pretty good temp gradient, hot enough basking spot, I bought the best lighting from my research, its the right height, she gets greens, she gets probiotics, she gets bugs, filtered water, food/water changed twice daily, poop removed as soon as she goes, tank meticulously cleaned, I spend a ton of time by her- just talking with her, baths every other day…this dragon Like I said earlier, she’s still eating and having regular bowel movements which I know is a good thing but oh my goodness this is driving me nuts that I can’t fix it. Hoping the experts can help troubleshoot.

 

[KarrieRee]

Thank you for tagging!! All I’ve been doing is reading other posts about this and I’d give anything to have it be an easy fix but when I go down the “probable causes” list nothing jumps out. Her tank isn’t dirty, it’s not too small, she’s not housed with other dragons, no other animals in this room, tried to minimize her reflection, she has a pretty good temp gradient, hot enough basking spot, I bought the best lighting from my research, its the right height, she gets greens, she gets probiotics, she gets bugs, filtered water, food/water changed twice daily, poop removed as soon as she goes, tank meticulously cleaned, I spend a ton of time by her- just talking with her, baths every other day…this dragon Like I said earlier, she’s still eating and having regular bowel movements which I know is a good thing but oh my goodness this is driving me nuts that I can’t fix it. Hoping the experts can help troubleshoot.

I think you have a covered all your bases

 

[MarleyAndLennon]

I think you have a covered all your bases

I think I have too. So what in the universe is up with this dragon Thanks again for taking the time to reply and help, I really appreciate it.