Early MBD?

Hi everyone,

I have a 4-year old boy named Lazlo, previously very healthy aside from an episode or two of pinworms. Recently over the last couple of days, I have noticed that he is walking with his fingers curled under his hands. It sort of looks like he's walking on closed fists. Since I noticed this, I've been paying very close attention to his movements and he does seem clumsier to me. I'm very worried that he's developing MBD.

His diet consists of crickets and collard greens, which we alternate every other day. Collard greens get covered in bee pollen every time, and we inconsistently dust his crickets. If I'm being honest, he hates the taste of the calcium and often refuses his food when dusted in calcium, so I've just gotten complacent with his calcium supplements and thought that he was getting enough calcium through the collard greens and bee pollen. Now that I'm seeing early signs of MBD, I'm horrified and realize that this is not enough calcium supplementation. In regard to basking, Lazlo really doesn't take it upon himself to bask. I put him on his basking platform everyday after he eats, but he usually hops down within a couple of mins and goes to the cool side of his tank (that's where his hammock is - he loves his hammock).

His enclosure is 4x2x2 ft with a UVB bulb mounted inside the tank. I use the 10.0 HO T5 ReptiSun 22 inch bulb, which has been changed out 3 months ago. His basking platform gets to 95 degrees, and the cool side of his tank is 80 degrees.

Today, I mixed a spoonful of calcium powder with D3 into baby food which I then syringe-fed to him. I bought high-calcium cricket food to start gut-loading the crickets. I also bought a liquid calcium supplement which should arrive to my house by 5/13. Until the liquid calcium gets here, I'm planning on continuing with the baby food mixed with calcium, and will continue to dust his salads with bee pollen as well since he likes the bee pollen. I'm looking into new basking platforms that Lazlo might like better, and am thinking of putting a hammock under his basking lamp too since he loves his hammock so much. Does anyone else have experience with this or other recommendations? I'm not sure if this warrants a trip to the vet and/or x-rays, should I try my current plan first or should I just take him to the vet ASAP? I'm not sure how quickly MBD progresses. Any input would be helpful, I'm so worried about my little guy and just want to get him better as quickly as possible. Thanks in advance!

Melissa
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Do you have pictures of Lazlo you could post, along with the tank setup we could see?
The Reptisun 10 T5 tube is a great bulb. If he isn't sitting underneath of it for very long then
you might have to consider moving it to an area where he spends more of his time. As you
had mentioned putting a hammock under his basking light & tube UVB would be a great idea
if he likes his hammock so much!
You can give the plan a little time, & start using the liquid calcium for him. What brand is it that
you bought? If he is just developing metabolic bone disease then you may be able to reverse
most if not all of the weakness or symptoms that might be showing.
If you wanted to get a blood test or x-rays done on him, that is definitely up to you, it's helpful to
know the baseline of their calcium levels.
Let us know how things are going.

Tracie
 

SkittlesK

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Kamo
Hi everyone,

I have a 4-year old boy named Lazlo, previously very healthy aside from an episode or two of pinworms. Recently over the last couple of days, I have noticed that he is walking with his fingers curled under his hands. It sort of looks like he's walking on closed fists. Since I noticed this, I've been paying very close attention to his movements and he does seem clumsier to me. I'm very worried that he's developing MBD.

His diet consists of crickets and collard greens, which we alternate every other day. Collard greens get covered in bee pollen every time, and we inconsistently dust his crickets. If I'm being honest, he hates the taste of the calcium and often refuses his food when dusted in calcium, so I've just gotten complacent with his calcium supplements and thought that he was getting enough calcium through the collard greens and bee pollen. Now that I'm seeing early signs of MBD, I'm horrified and realize that this is not enough calcium supplementation. In regard to basking, Lazlo really doesn't take it upon himself to bask. I put him on his basking platform everyday after he eats, but he usually hops down within a couple of mins and goes to the cool side of his tank (that's where his hammock is - he loves his hammock).

His enclosure is 4x2x2 ft with a UVB bulb mounted inside the tank. I use the 10.0 HO T5 ReptiSun 22 inch bulb, which has been changed out 3 months ago. His basking platform gets to 95 degrees, and the cool side of his tank is 80 degrees.

Today, I mixed a spoonful of calcium powder with D3 into baby food which I then syringe-fed to him. I bought high-calcium cricket food to start gut-loading the crickets. I also bought a liquid calcium supplement which should arrive to my house by 5/13. Until the liquid calcium gets here, I'm planning on continuing with the baby food mixed with calcium, and will continue to dust his salads with bee pollen as well since he likes the bee pollen. I'm looking into new basking platforms that Lazlo might like better, and am thinking of putting a hammock under his basking lamp too since he loves his hammock so much. Does anyone else have experience with this or other recommendations? I'm not sure if this warrants a trip to the vet and/or x-rays, should I try my current plan first or should I just take him to the vet ASAP? I'm not sure how quickly MBD progresses. Any input would be helpful, I'm so worried about my little guy and just want to get him better as quickly as possible. Thanks in advance!

Melissa
I recommend Tracie's website.
Possibly a product like this:
Calci-blast

Get flavored if he doesn't like the taste of the powder.
Tracie has all sorts of flavors.
-Taylor
 

Axil

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Beebz
Are you using a digital probe to get surface temps on the basking decor? If not it's possible the basking surface may be hotter than you think leading him to avoid it.
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
I know it sounds silly, but taste the liquid calcium yourself. I use it some and have found sometimes it taste BAD 👎. My guys refuse it if it had a bad taste.
 

melissamott124

Member
Original Poster
Thank you so much to everyone for all of the replies! I'm attaching some pictures of his enclosure, and a quick video of him walking. I ended up putting a hammock under his heat lamp and he basked for an hour and a half yesterday - I can't believe the solution to get him to bask was that simple! I'm so happy to have found a way to encourage him to bask.

You can give the plan a little time, & start using the liquid calcium for him. What brand is it that
you bought? If he is just developing metabolic bone disease then you may be able to reverse
most if not all of the weakness or symptoms that might be showing.
I recommend Tracie's website.
Possibly a product like this:
Calci-blast

Get flavored if he doesn't like the taste of the powder.
Tracie has all sorts of flavors.
I actually did buy the Calci-blast the other day, both unflavored and blueberry flavor. Tracie, I had no idea this was your website when I made the purchase! Knowing that makes me all the more confident in the product, I'm looking forward to getting it.

Are you using a digital probe to get surface temps on the basking decor? If not it's possible the basking surface may be hotter than you think leading him to avoid it.
Good point! I have been using a digital probe to get the surface temps, so I feel pretty confident that the temps I'm getting are accurate.

I know it sounds silly, but taste the liquid calcium yourself. I use it some and have found sometimes it taste BAD 👎. My guys refuse it if it had a bad taste.
This is great advice, I will definitely do that!


Thanks again to everyone for the responses. I'm feeling really encouraged that I got him to bask yesterday, and that I was able to get him to take in some of the calcium powder with the baby food. I'm looking forward to getting the liquid calcium this weekend.

Melissa
 

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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
Keep us posted 🙂 we all get invested in every beardie and love knowing they are doing well 🙂
 

melissamott124

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone! I'm just popping in with a one month update on my boy, Lazlo. He's been doing great! I'm actually shocked at how quickly his symptoms have improved. He loves the blueberry Bug-De-Lite liquid calcium and nearly attacks the syringe every time, so that's a perk! Thank you so much to everyone who became invested in my boy and provided some advice, I really appreciate it.

Melissa
 

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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
Hey buddy you got a cricket on your head lol.
Now there is a boy that likes his crickets!!! I loved that video, I'm glad he is doing good.🙂
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Melissa,

I just realized I had forgotten to check back in. Good grief, Lazlo has really improved, that is
very surprising! I guess he responded well to the liquid calcium then. I'm so happy that he
really likes it too. That makes it so much easier to get them to take it. Blueberry is one of the
most popular flavors. Don't hesitate to contact me, anytime, if you need anything.
He is such a nice looking, handsome boy, great size to him.

Tracie
 

melissamott124

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone -

I hope you don't mind that I'm reviving this thread! After my last update, I decreased his calcium supplements from twice daily to 3 times weekly. I began to notice after a while that his symptoms of MBD started to return. I resumed the more frequent calcium regimen, but was hoping for some vitamin D3 recommendations to hopefully help maintain his calcium levels better. Preferably liquid as Lazlo really doesn't like the powder.

Thanks in advance!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

No problem at all, you can always bring your threads back up.
So you are using the liquid a few times weekly now, has that helped him out again?
Remind me again, how old is your Reptisun 10 T5 tube bulb? They normally last awhile, but
just making sure it was still on par strength wise.
It is hard finding liquid D3. I know he doesn't like powder, but there is the reptical with D3 out,
I believe.
Honestly, I have been meaning to formulate a D3 mix, but haven't gotten around to it. I can try
to see what I can do. We do need to add that our website though. Are you wanting a D3 liquid
only, or a calcium with D3 or D3 option to add?

Tracie
 

melissamott124

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

No problem at all, you can always bring your threads back up.
So you are using the liquid a few times weekly now, has that helped him out again?
Remind me again, how old is your Reptisun 10 T5 tube bulb? They normally last awhile, but
just making sure it was still on par strength wise.
It is hard finding liquid D3. I know he doesn't like powder, but there is the reptical with D3 out,
I believe.
Honestly, I have been meaning to formulate a D3 mix, but haven't gotten around to it. I can try
to see what I can do. We do need to add that our website though. Are you wanting a D3 liquid
only, or a calcium with D3 or D3 option to add?

Tracie
Hey Tracie, thanks for your response! His bulb was about 6 months old so I switched it out to a new one a week ago just in case. In regard to his symptoms, he seems good during the day but I can tell at night when he's a bit more tired that he's weak at his left wrist. I tried giving him a liquid multivit with Vitamin D but he hated it lol. I'm trying powder currently, but it's been a lot harder to get him to eat his food with the powder. I think a calcium with D3 option on your website would be amazing, I'll definitely keep an eye out! Thanks so much for the help, it's greatly appreciated.

Melissa
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
People are probably laughing at me because I keep saying this, but taste the liquid calcium yourself. I've gotten some that taste horrible and my beardies all refused it.
You can mix it with a little water and some none citrus fruit juice or punch to give it flavor and trick your beardie that way. Use an eyedropper to drip it on his/her snout. Go at your beardies pace and don't force it in, that could cause aspiration. Also be sure to use a wet cloth to wipe away any that runs down his/her chin. No need to take a chance on causing bacteria or fungus to start in their scales from the juice.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Melissa,

You are so welcome. Let me see what I can get done. It is hard to get them to take supplements,
I agree. Maybe powders could be lightly mixed with a diluted juice?
How is he doing today? I hope that he is feeling better.
Oh ok, well that's great you did update his light, just in case. It
probably was still good but keep it as a backup in case you need
it.

Tracie
 

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