Diarrhea. Really Need Help, at a loss

[Mirthy]

I just noticed that when I first posted in the ER section for this problem on Nov 20th Norris was 15" and 159g. Today he is 18 1/2", 325g.
He is still growing but we really need to fix this for the poor fellow.
If anyone has any ideas I can take back with me to the vet, I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
Carrie

 

[pyffersnpaws]

I saw the placement of the bulb and that looked great, was curious as to the brand... certain bulbs have a tendency to create health issues... I had a reptiglo (my husband thought it was the reptisun) as soon as I realized it I changed it, I can see a big difference with my guys...

 

[Spikey07]

how do you keep him hydrated?
Do you bath him, if so how often?
Does he drink water, if so how much?

...could it be he is VERY well hydrated? Beardies are desert species and if they are eating lots of salad often wont need much more hydration.

You said a fecal check was done for eggs and worms, did this check for things like yeast and coccidia also?

Have you had a blood test done? Not sure if this would be necessary, just trying to give you some more options to try!

 

[MissT]

Carrie, I sent you a PM Hope it is helpful!

 

[Mirthy]

how do you keep him hydrated?
Do you bath him, if so how often?
Does he drink water, if so how much?

...could it be he is VERY well hydrated? Beardies are desert species and if they are eating lots of salad often wont need much more hydration.

You said a fecal check was done for eggs and worms, did this check for things like yeast and coccidia also?

Have you had a blood test done? Not sure if this would be necessary, just trying to give you some more options to try!

Salad is his main hydration. When Norris was a little thing he would drink from his bath but he doesn't anymore. He doesn't even lick water off his lips. His vet also said that he eats enough salad to maintain hydration. When Norris first started having this problem, I was trying to do pedilyte baths and trying to get him to drink more...so we stopped that as long as he keeps eating his veggies. We only have a soak dish in his viv when he is actively shedding. Right now, that is the only time he is getting baths, too. He used to get them nearly every day but starting back in Nov it just gets too cold in the house for his usual soaks. (which he really likes. I can't wait til it gets warmer) So baths are sporadic and timed to shed and in front of a heater. LOL
I know coccidia was covered in the vet check but I don't know about yeast so I can inquire about that! Mrs T gave me another idea to ask about so now I have two, at least, to ask about.

We didn't do any blood work because there were no other symptoms, his over all health was good and the vet wanted to try the food variations. I know that diet changes take time, so I've tried to be patient and just keep a real close eye on him. He seems great! Very active, fantastic appetite. He's young (approx 7 months) and hasn't black bearded yet, but he doesn't have stress marks, either, so if he's in distress, he's hiding it well. Just that one problem, every day.

Thank you both, I really feel clueless so I appreciate all ideas and both of those are good ones.
Carrie

 

[MissT]

Carrie, are we sure that Norris is not a Norrisa??? Also, he may not black beard unless he has a reason to :wink:

 

[Mirthy]

Carrie, are we sure that Norris is not a Norrisa??? Also, he may not black beard unless he has a reason to :wink:

Yup, he finally grew up enough to leave no doubt. He's a two lumper, not a one. It's a Boy! 8)
I've seen him puff up his beard when he was shedding and he did it once when a cat surprised him. He was sitting on my lap and a cat didn't notice and jumped up to the arm of my chair.
But there was no black and no stress marks. I think he just did it out of surprise. He will gray a bit around the beard when he's not happy..but in a baby way. I bet that would change fast if I had another dragon in the house. The cats just don't intimidate him. (which is why I'm always on guard, just in case) He goes over to the glass when they look in and holds his head up nice and high. No real head bobbing, either. I bet that would change if there was another beardie in the house. 8)

and thanks, it's nice to talk about him beyond just his being sick or whatever this is.


EDIT: I put up a couple of photos of him on his photo expressions page, btw. Shed/post shed.

 

[lettergram]

I am fairly sure that my bearded dragon currently has a parasite of some form (smelly poop), but when she was having diarrhea I did try some broccoli (just one day) because the vitamin C can kill some bacteria in her bowls while also feeding her a ton of crickets, the next day I returned her on her diet. Since then I have had no diarrhea, it's been like 4 or 5 days poop still smells and i'm bringing in a sample, but the insects helped make a more solid waste.

I also heard that too much squash can cause diarrhea because it isn't solid enough (or have enough fiber) and kinda falls apart in their stomachs, don't know if there is truth to this, I haven't fed mine any squash as of yet.

 

[Mirthy]

I am fairly sure that my bearded dragon currently has a parasite of some form (smelly poop), but when she was having diarrhea I did try some broccoli (just one day) because the vitamin C can kill some bacteria in her bowls while also feeding her a ton of crickets, the next day I returned her on her diet. Since then I have had no diarrhea, it's been like 4 or 5 days poop still smells and i'm bringing in a sample, but the insects helped make a more solid waste.

I also heard that too much squash can cause diarrhea because it isn't solid enough (or have enough fiber) and kinda falls apart in their stomachs, don't know if there is truth to this, I haven't fed mine any squash as of yet.

Hi there,
I'm glad to hear your dragon is doing better! You are right on both accounts. The thing is that I've had two tests done for parasites and both were negative. It just seemed like it had to be the answer because of the extra smell but both of them came back the same. The next thing the vet had us try was cutting back his diet to just one item....waiting...then cutting out that item and switching to something else...ie: we went through all his usual diet to see if one of the food items were causing it. No luck there either. Mrs T recommended that after all of the swapping through his diet that we stick to some consistency for a while. She has a dragon with some chronic diarrhea problems, too. So we cut out all fruit (which was really just a treat, anyway) and went to a base salad of collard greens and dandelion greens. Norris wasn't eating nearly as much salad as he usually did, so we added little bits of diced butter squash to the top of it. He is very attracted to the color. I would say that it makes up less than 5% of his salad. (a lot less, probably)

The really odd thing is that occasionally his urates are harder than you'd expect them to be since he is having constant diarrhea. Sometimes they are flakes and mush but other times they are hard and chalky, like he is dehydrated??? It is the other portion of his business that is always a mess. His urates are almost always formed. I have NO IDEA what that means. I need to learn more about bearded dragon physiology!

My next step is going to be testing for Adeno virus. Diarrhea is one of the symptoms. If that's what it is, then we can work from there. I'm still going to mention yeasts at my next vet appointment, too. I need to set another one up. My work scheduled is really tight right now but my husband is home dragon sitting.

 

[lettergram]

I am fairly sure you have read this as well, but according to what I have read the virus can only be determined in death, though you may be able to find some dead tissue in the liver (the virus can kill the liver). In any case, best of luck! Tell me how your appointment goes when it happens.

 

[Mirthy]

I am fairly sure you have read this as well, but according to what I have read the virus can only be determined in death, though you may be able to find some dead tissue in the liver (the virus can kill the liver). In any case, best of luck! Tell me how your appointment goes when it happens.

Happily, that is old information. There are two different tests that can now be done to look for adreno virus in bearded dragons.

 

[Spikey07]

Hard chalky urates can also be a sign of too much calcium... I think???

 

[pscaulkins]

Hard chalky urates can also be a sign of too much calcium... I think???

You are correct. To much calcium effects the kidneys.

Benebac can be found in the bird section. Avian and reptile Benebac is the same. Petco carries it.

 

[Mirthy]

Okay, it's been a long time but I wanted to give an update.
I feel it is finally safe to say that Norris is past this problem. I'm not 100% certain what was going on.
He started having normal poops again after we removed some water crystals that some of his feeders had access to. I know they are supposed to be safe but I think that Norris might be very sensitive to whatever they are made of. It could also be coincidence and he just fought off whatever it was that was ailing him but he seems to be all back to normal, finally!
He is 19.25" -- 433 grams.
He never stopped growing through this whole thing and now he is my little baby grown up dragon.
We are keeping an eye on him, naturally. If this starts up again we will have him tested for Adeno which I think can flare up and then recede, so yes, we are being very cautious still. His bowel movements are finally back to being well formed and once every day or every other day with just a little extra clear liquid.
I wanted to post this update in case anyone else is using the water crystals with their colonies and has the same problem. I don't want to bad mouth a product on the reaction of one dragon, but I want to put it out there to add to our collective knowledge base.

Thank you again so very much for everyone's help and support!
Carrie and Sean (and Norris!)