Concern Regarding Possible Egg Laying Behaviour

[ThePJN]

Hey everyone. We have a bit of a story/question/looking for general input for you.

We’re somewhat experienced beardie owners, we’ve had 2 beardies before the one we have now, both were male. This is our first female bearded dragon (Calcifer), and she’s about 1 year old now.

For about 2 weeks now (since Sept 26th) Calcifer has been extremely restless. Lots of glass dancing, lots of running around her tank, lots of climbing and scratching. She was doing this sporadically before but at a more "normal" pace, this is more akin to "freaking out" because she's doing it constantly, all day, every day.

If she's in her tank she'll run around, attack her lights (which she’s never done before), glass dance, frantically try to get out, etc. We'll take her out, and she won't calm down. More running, jumping, wild eyes. We have another tank near the window she likes to sit in and look outside. If we put her in there she'll calm down briefly, but then it is back to freaking out after a few minutes. (See attached images for tank reference.)

She’s also taken to pooping on us when she’s out, and is pooping at least once if not twice a day. Her poop is small, there’s always a urate but the urate is kind of jelly-like, and the poop is formed, but a bit soft, not diarrhea, and there’s always quite a bit of “water” with the movement.

She’s not eating as much as she used to as well. Only picking at her salad here and there; only eating 1 or 2 roaches, instead of her usual 5 to 6. She seems to be drinking more though, we’ve been giving her a bath about 1-2 times per week, but offering her water daily and she usually drinks at least every other day.

She seems to be showing most of the signs of being ready to lay infertile eggs, but the only thing she doesn’t seem to be doing is digging. She might dig incidentally but nothing looks like deliberate, “I’m digging this out so I can lay eggs”-style digging. It might be, she doesn’t know what she’s supposed to do because she’s never laid eggs before…? Maybe we could be doing something better to help her be comfortable to lay her eggs if that’s what she’s doing?

She looks like she’s lost a little bit of weight but also we weighed her and she’s slightly heavier. Her tummy seems a little tender, at least based on how she reacts to being handled sometimes.

We gave her 3 different options for lay boxes:

1. A small one inside her big tank by the window. A mixture of play sand, soil and reptile excavator sand that is moist, sand-castle consistency.
2. We filled the bottom of her large 2 tiered tank with a straight dirt/moss mix, also moist.
3. A large bin filled with a wetter mix of the play sand, soil and reptile excavator sand.

So far she’s not really done any notable digging in any of them. Other than “I’m trying to get out”-style digging.

Other than her “dig box areas” we only have her on paper towel, no other loose substrate.

We had her into the vet for a checkup at the end of July, where she had a fecal, and it was clear.

Wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar? Or if anyone can recommend anything that might make her more comfortable?

At what point should we take her to the vet to be checked? Getting to our exotic specialist is a little bit of a challenge (and expensive), but we will 100% make the trip if there is a need to.

 

[xp29]

Hey everyone. We have a bit of a story/question/looking for general input for you.

We’re somewhat experienced beardie owners, we’ve had 2 beardies before the one we have now, both were male. This is our first female bearded dragon (Calcifer), and she’s about 1 year old now.

For about 2 weeks now (since Sept 26th) Calcifer has been extremely restless. Lots of glass dancing, lots of running around her tank, lots of climbing and scratching. She was doing this sporadically before but at a more "normal" pace, this is more akin to "freaking out" because she's doing it constantly, all day, every day.

If she's in her tank she'll run around, attack her lights (which she’s never done before), glass dance, frantically try to get out, etc. We'll take her out, and she won't calm down. More running, jumping, wild eyes. We have another tank near the window she likes to sit in and look outside. If we put her in there she'll calm down briefly, but then it is back to freaking out after a few minutes. (See attached images for tank reference.)

She’s also taken to pooping on us when she’s out, and is pooping at least once if not twice a day. Her poop is small, there’s always a urate but the urate is kind of jelly-like, and the poop is formed, but a bit soft, not diarrhea, and there’s always quite a bit of “water” with the movement.

She’s not eating as much as she used to as well. Only picking at her salad here and there; only eating 1 or 2 roaches, instead of her usual 5 to 6. She seems to be drinking more though, we’ve been giving her a bath about 1-2 times per week, but offering her water daily and she usually drinks at least every other day.

She seems to be showing most of the signs of being ready to lay infertile eggs, but the only thing she doesn’t seem to be doing is digging. She might dig incidentally but nothing looks like deliberate, “I’m digging this out so I can lay eggs”-style digging. It might be, she doesn’t know what she’s supposed to do because she’s never laid eggs before…? Maybe we could be doing something better to help her be comfortable to lay her eggs if that’s what she’s doing?

She looks like she’s lost a little bit of weight but also we weighed her and she’s slightly heavier. Her tummy seems a little tender, at least based on how she reacts to being handled sometimes.

We gave her 3 different options for lay boxes:

1. A small one inside her big tank by the window. A mixture of play sand, soil and reptile excavator sand that is moist, sand-castle consistency.
2. We filled the bottom of her large 2 tiered tank with a straight dirt/moss mix, also moist.
3. A large bin filled with a wetter mix of the play sand, soil and reptile excavator sand.

So far she’s not really done any notable digging in any of them. Other than “I’m trying to get out”-style digging.

Other than her “dig box areas” we only have her on paper towel, no other loose substrate.

We had her into the vet for a checkup at the end of July, where she had a fecal, and it was clear.

Wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar? Or if anyone can recommend anything that might make her more comfortable?

At what point should we take her to the vet to be checked? Getting to our exotic specialist is a little bit of a challenge (and expensive), but we will 100% make the trip if there is a need to.

@AHBD is probably the best to talk to, she has bread them for a long time.

 

[AHBD]

I'll check this later, I'm actually brushing my teeth + running out the house right now, be back later.

 

[AHBD]

I looked quick at the enclosures, I don't see a nice deep area for digging unless I missed it. Try to get something like that, ttyl !

 

[AHBD]

Can you post pics of the laying bins ? Also, that behavior is how some of them are. They just go crazy up until they lay.

 

[ThePJN]

Can you post pics of the laying bins ? Also, that behavior is how some of them are. They just go crazy up until they lay.

Sure thing. Really appreciate the second opinion. We've got beardie experience but mostly with males.

This is the bottom floor "lay area". It's a little dry at the moment; could use some re-dampening...? It's about 4 inches deep of material. We taped newspaper to the sides and front of the glass in case it helped her feel more safe/private (She seems like she was weirded out/"on the spot" when we could see her a little). There is also a plant seedling heating mat under one side with a temperature control and probe that we could turn on, it doesn't go very high and isn't for basking, it's just to make sure the ambient temp doesn't go too low. I don't know if turning that on to warm the soil a bit more would help? Would probably struggle to get above 80F/26C, again, it's NOT for basking, just to keep temps more even as it's getting colder here this time of year.

And this is the second lay bin. Basic plastic tub with a 5 inch layer of a mix of play sand, Reptisoil and excavator clay. We ended up combining the smaller bin we originally had in the tank by the window, because we realized it was too small, and we needed a bit more for the larger bin.

Dunno how ideal either of those pictures are...

Does it normally take this long? It's been 2 weeks since she started behaving this way, is that normal? We've seen pics of lay bins with heat lamps over them, is that something that we should try? Bin #2 with the sand in it is room temp, and wet, so it's a bit on the cold side, would that be an issue for her to lay comfortably?

 

[AHBD]

Yes, some do act totally crazed while others don't act too different until a few days before laying. So the deeper bin is the better area but you can make it even deeper , adding more damp substrate and piling some of it more to one side. Whenever you add water always use warm .You can even " start " the cave by hand. They like privacy, you can put the lid back on and just cut a section of it off, about 6 ' x 6' to act as entrance. If you don't have the lid , find a piece of carboard to set on top of it. Even after making the best lay box some dragons will lay their eggs in a random place in their tank so there's a chance of that as well but MOST dragons will use a deep laybox. No heat is needed, if you have a ceramic heater [ heaat with no light] that would be O.K
I think the light might bother them.

 

[ThePJN]

Okay. Well good to know that she's more or less going crazy normally.

Gotcha. She does seem to be calmer in the bigger sandy bin. We can try adding in more substrate, for sure. We've been pre-digging a bit of a cave to get her started here and there too, but we will for sure try piling it up more on one side, and dig out more of a starter cave.

Yes, we've got the lid still. We've been placing it on and trying covering the sides with a blanket as well just in case. We've been leaving her in there for a few hours at a time, since it's not in a tank. We can try to get the bin to fit in the tank by the window so we can make a hole in the lid for her to be able to go in and out.

We've seen people using heat lamps but haven't as yet had the time to try. Guess we can skip that. We do have an extra ceramic heater if absolutely needed. She does seem to spend some time warming up between her freak-outs, when she takes a brief break, so probably giving her an option for heat would be good?

 

[AHBD]

They usually take those breaks from being berserk every to catch a few rays and their breath. You could try the che , just be sure she can't jump on it being as she's been jumping at her lights. Btw, you might also try just adding about 7-8" of substrate to the floor of her enclosure if you think she'd prefer that area. Or you could put the bin in there like you said. Either way you wouldn't need extra heat if the lay area is in the enclosure since it's warmer in there than your house temps.

 

[ThePJN]

Ah ok, good idea! Thankfully she still sleeps at night, and was in her other enclosure by the window, so we ended up putting all the sand mixture from the bin into the lower level of tank #1 with the soil. It's still not quite 7-8" deep, it's a bigger area than the bin, but it's at least 6" now, which is deeper than it was for sure. Tomorrow morning when she wakes up we'll mix some more warm water in there and do a little bit of shaping before putting her back and leave the bottom light off.

We might be able to grab some more play sand either tomorrow or Saturday if we need to, we'll see what she thinks of it. We'll see what happens!

 

[AHBD]

O.K, sounds good ! Please post about any developments and maybe some pics of Miss Calcifer.

 

[ThePJN]

Well she was a little more calm today. At least in her tank. She only dove at her lights once. (We took out her ledge that got her closer to them, so that spoiled her fun a little in that regard.) Some light running around, but generally more calm. If she was at about a 10/10 before for craziness, today she was a 7 or 8.

Took her out a couple times because she had to poop and let her explore the desk area while we were working. She's a little dark, not super dark but a bit darker than normal, beard is not black. A few "spots" or stress lines on her belly though. When we picked her up early today she flinched when her abdomen was touched a certain way, but we were gentle and let her decide how she wanted to be and she was mostly fine other than the 7 or 8 out of 10 crazies.

Ah yes. Forgot to pay the tax! Here are some pics from today of our beautiful girl...

and a few from before she started losing her mind lol

Early September:

Middle of June:

 

[AHBD]

Those are great pictures, she's very beautiful ! And there's a certain mischevious look about her that lends more credibility to your description of her antics. Leaping lizards, she looks like a boss character. She's pretty chunky so go very easy on the bug feedings, maybe help her to lose just a little bit of weight.

I'm trying to decide if she looks like a pancake, a burrito or a calzone.

 

[ThePJN]

Lol yeah, we call her our "spicy little potato" ^.^ She's really smart too, she's got "Come here" (come jump on me/my hand) "Let's go" (encouraging the come here more) and "Go warm up?" (when we are putting her back) down pretty well already, though, she decides whether or not she feels like coming to one of us, but you can tell in her face, she knows what it means lol and about 70% of the time, she does it. She's a sweet, curious little soul that has quite a bit of attitude and dramatic flair. Definitely got the standard beardie stubbornness too lol

Yeah, she's about 530g right now, she's a little chonky. She's really food motivated and we accidentally fed her a bit too much for a little longer than we should as she was growing. She's only a year, so we're still trying to iron out the feeding schedule, but we'll go down to probably 2-3 feedings per week pretty soon. Right now she gets fed every other day, but she is already eating less, so probably best to space them out more.

 

[AHBD]

Sounds like a wonderful pet, they really can become cherished family members. Your special potato !

But yes, good to cut back now because once they are big it's pretty difficult to slow the weight gain. She'll be fine since she's young but now is the time.