Common lizards

[ChileanTaco]

Lack of room is the biggest reason I don't keep the bigger lizards. I don't have room for more huge habitats and I won't keep one in a habitat that's to small just so I can keep it. If I ever get to build on my ranch in Arizona I'll remedy that lil problem

For me it's also this, and especially the availability of lamps. Not only that they are expensive here (that's not really an issue, we're frugal), there are just not many available (for example, right now I cannot order any basking/ halogen lamps; until beginning of the year I could, and then one out of three pet stores had sometimes something and if, one single lamp). With just one reptile, I can get by, like bringing a 1-year supply or better a 2-year supply when traveling abroad to countries also having 220 V, or if really necessary my in-laws would send me some (steep price for the shipping, however), but if I would have get 2 times or 3 times the amount... Might also not be a funny situation at airport customs coming with a suitcase full of lamps...

I love all kinds of reptiles, herps in general, insects... all the critter.
I remember my husband saying more than once about me: "The problem is... she loves/likes them all"
But with that I'm realistic and just don't bring them home. I remember we were at a reptile show (they also had insects, arachnids, amphibians), when we still lived in the US but it was obvious we would move within 1 - 2 years to "wherever" (could have been Europe, could have been Chile, could have been Hawaii where many species are not allowed). I'd see no animal I would not like or at least be okay with it as a pet and I had seen multiple of which I had bought maybe from one species as many (1 to n) as could be kept in one enclosure. Might have been train millipedes, or a bearded dragon, or...
I bought none because of just not wanting to be in the likely situation of rehoming (because: animal either not allowed on a plane (had the issue before with hermit crabs ) or not allowed in that country) quite soon. Around the same time, a workmate of mine had to rehome his tree frog. If the situation had been differently for me... I'd be a tree frog parent In the situation as it was, I only had taken it, temporarily to further rehome it, in an emergency if nobody had taken it, but luckily somebody else took the frog.

Nowadays, with a more long-term situation (living in Chile but with a permanent job and easily being able to get permanent residency - so no "fixed-term contract runs out, so work visa runs out, you must leave" situation), and more space, realistically I would have space for 1 more large enclosure similar to Taco's or 2 smaller ones. I'd really rather give up space for other stuff. But no, with how difficult it is getting the lamps here, no other pet that requires any kind of light or heating other than LED or aquarium heating (we also have a small fish tank) will be added.
In the case of living in a country where those lamps can be bought more easily, I would however seriously consider keeping more, and especially pets that were rehomed.

Regarding the Chuckwalla in the pet store:
Is it maybe possible that it is wild and non-releaseable? Like some of the animals in ranger stations?
Or can they be bought as captive-breed where you live?
How is it about keeping something from the wild (just as a private person; not ranger, biologist or such)? Is that allowed there, or generally in the US? I do not know; I only know about how it is in my home country and they are pretty restrictive (if animal is from the wild, can keep it only up to 24 hours if you're not wildlife rehab; native species are allowed as pets if from breeder and must come with certificate).

 

[xp29]

For me it's also this, and especially the availability of lamps. Not only that they are expensive here (that's not really an issue, we're frugal), there are just not many available (for example, right now I cannot order any basking/ halogen lamps; until beginning of the year I could, and then one out of three pet stores had sometimes something and if, one single lamp). With just one reptile, I can get by, like bringing a 1-year supply or better a 2-year supply when traveling abroad to countries also having 220 V, or if really necessary my in-laws would send me some (steep price for the shipping, however), but if I would have get 2 times or 3 times the amount... Might also not be a funny situation at airport customs coming with a suitcase full of lamps...

I love all kinds of reptiles, herps in general, insects... all the critter.
I remember my husband saying more than once about me: "The problem is... she loves/likes them all"
But with that I'm realistic and just don't bring them home. I remember we were at a reptile show (they also had insects, arachnids, amphibians), when we still lived in the US but it was obvious we would move within 1 - 2 years to "wherever" (could have been Europe, could have been Chile, could have been Hawaii where many species are not allowed). I'd see no animal I would not like or at least be okay with it as a pet and I had seen multiple of which I had bought maybe from one species as many (1 to n) as could be kept in one enclosure. Might have been train millipedes, or a bearded dragon, or...
I bought none because of just not wanting to be in the likely situation of rehoming (because: animal either not allowed on a plane (had the issue before with hermit crabs ) or not allowed in that country) quite soon. Around the same time, a workmate of mine had to rehome his tree frog. If the situation had been differently for me... I'd be a tree frog parent In the situation as it was, I only had taken it, temporarily to further rehome it, in an emergency if nobody had taken it, but luckily somebody else took the frog.

Nowadays, with a more long-term situation (living in Chile but with a permanent job and easily being able to get permanent residency - so no "fixed-term contract runs out, so work visa runs out, you must leave" situation), and more space, realistically I would have space for 1 more large enclosure similar to Taco's or 2 smaller ones. I'd really rather give up space for other stuff. But no, with how difficult it is getting the lamps here, no other pet that requires any kind of light or heating other than LED or aquarium heating (we also have a small fish tank) will be added.
In the case of living in a country where those lamps can be bought more easily, I would however seriously consider keeping more, and especially pets that were rehomed.

Regarding the Chuckwalla in the pet store:
Is it maybe possible that it is wild and non-releaseable? Like some of the animals in ranger stations?
Or can they be bought as captive-breed where you live?
How is it about keeping something from the wild (just as a private person; not ranger, biologist or such)? Is that allowed there, or generally in the US? I do not know; I only know about how it is in my home country and they are pretty restrictive (if animal is from the wild, can keep it only up to 24 hours if you're not wildlife rehab; native species are allowed as pets if from breeder and must come with certificate).

If I understood right, they can't sell anything that is native to the state. The chuckwalla looked to be in good enough condition to be returned to the wild. I don't think there is any law that says you couldn't keep one as a pet, they just can't sell them. I guess it discourages taking them from the wild (which is ok by me) but captive bread ones can be sourced. As far as keeping wild caught, I think the only real restrictions are only on protected species.
Black Foot Ferrets for example. Normal ferrets are ok (except in a few states where they are not allowed) but the Black foot are endangered and if you were to catch one and try to make a pet of it, the penalty could be quite steep.

 

[ChileanTaco]

If I understood right, they can't sell anything that is native to the state. The chuckwalla looked to be in good enough condition to be returned to the wild. I don't think there is any law that says you couldn't keep one as a pet, they just can't sell them. I guess it discourages taking them from the wild (which is ok by me) but captive bread ones can be sourced. As far as keeping wild caught, I think the only real restrictions are only on protected species.
Black Foot Ferrets for example. Normal ferrets are ok (except in a few states where they are not allowed) but the Black foot are endangered and if you were to catch one and try to make a pet of it, the penalty could be quite steep.

I also could think that not being allowed to sell them discourages from taking them from the wild: Both for people who would take them to sell them, and for people who would catch them on their own and claim they bought it.


So it's really the selling? So it would be fine, if, for example, somebody would offer to catch you one for free? Or breed them and give them away for free?
(Still I think it would be hard to get one, as from national parks you also could take nothing.)

In my home country (Germany) the penalties are, of course, also heavier for the protected than for non-protected ones, but especially around vertebrates, almost everything is protected in some way.
E.g. Lacerta agilis, the fence lizard, sand lizard, Zauneidechse, is "strongly protected", even if, to be honest, it's a fairly common species. Bufo bufo, the common toad, Erdkröte, is also "strongly protected". Anguis fragilis, the slowworm, Blindschleiche, the German native species of legless skinks, is... again, "strongly protected". Also many insects are protected - wasps for example, all butterflies, and many are "strongly protected". I could not name a single reptile who is not and even would have a hard time to name a non-protected insect other than those considered a pest.
And even if not, keeping it is "illegal hunting". E.g. catching a sparrow and keeping it is "illegal hunting".
However, you could buy all the above species from registered breeders. Then you get it, along with the paperwork; everybody who wants it can buy it.

 

[NickAVD]

I also could think that not being allowed to sell them discourages from taking them from the wild: Both for people who would take them to sell them, and for people who would catch them on their own and claim they bought it.


So it's really the selling? So it would be fine, if, for example, somebody would offer to catch you one for free? Or breed them and give them away for free?
(Still I think it would be hard to get one, as from national parks you also could take nothing.)

In my home country (Germany) the penalties are, of course, also heavier for the protected than for non-protected ones, but especially around vertebrates, almost everything is protected in some way.
E.g. Lacerta agilis, the fence lizard, sand lizard, Zauneidechse, is "strongly protected", even if, to be honest, it's a fairly common species. Bufo bufo, the common toad, Erdkröte, is also "strongly protected". Anguis fragilis, the slowworm, Blindschleiche, the German native species of legless skinks, is... again, "strongly protected". Also many insects are protected - wasps for example, all butterflies, and many are "strongly protected". I could not name a single reptile who is not and even would have a hard time to name a non-protected insect other than those considered a pest.
And even if not, keeping it is "illegal hunting". E.g. catching a sparrow and keeping it is "illegal hunting".
However, you could buy all the above species from registered breeders. Then you get it, along with the paperwork; everybody who wants it can buy it.

How is the purchase of feed insects and their keeping for breeding purposes regulated in Germany? Are special permits required?

 

[xp29]

I also could think that not being allowed to sell them discourages from taking them from the wild: Both for people who would take them to sell them, and for people who would catch them on their own and claim they bought it.


So it's really the selling? So it would be fine, if, for example, somebody would offer to catch you one for free? Or breed them and give them away for free?
(Still I think it would be hard to get one, as from national parks you also could take nothing.)

In my home country (Germany) the penalties are, of course, also heavier for the protected than for non-protected ones, but especially around vertebrates, almost everything is protected in some way.
E.g. Lacerta agilis, the fence lizard, sand lizard, Zauneidechse, is "strongly protected", even if, to be honest, it's a fairly common species. Bufo bufo, the common toad, Erdkröte, is also "strongly protected". Anguis fragilis, the slowworm, Blindschleiche, the German native species of legless skinks, is... again, "strongly protected". Also many insects are protected - wasps for example, all butterflies, and many are "strongly protected". I could not name a single reptile who is not and even would have a hard time to name a non-protected insect other than those considered a pest.
And even if not, keeping it is "illegal hunting". E.g. catching a sparrow and keeping it is "illegal hunting".
However, you could buy all the above species from registered breeders. Then you get it, along with the paperwork; everybody who wants it can buy it.

Honestly that's the better system I think. Here if I go out and catch (the chuckwalla for instance) I won't get into any kind of trouble (as long as it isn't protected) but that doesn't mean I know how to take care of it. To me that's the biggest tragedy of wild caught, someone captures an animal, even with good intentions, and it suffers do to their ignorance of it's actual needs.

 

[ChileanTaco]

@xp29
I agree on this very much!

How is the purchase of feed insects and their keeping for breeding purposes regulated in Germany? Are special permits required?

There aren't any, and pet stores have them and of course you can keep and breed them. Widely used to feed reptiles and especially to feed poultry. And why not? It is not a wild animal.

With this

I could not name a single reptile who is not and even would have a hard time to name a non-protected insect other than those considered a pest.

I meant wild ones, taken from the wild. Of course you would not run into problems when smashing a fly But if you would make your own collection of dried butterflies by catching them - huge no-no.

So for the feeder insects: Just buying them, and you can also breed them. Same as you can breed chicken, for example, or cats, or your aquarium fish, triops, whatever.
You can also buy other insects, to keep as pet for example. You can buy (native species) butterfly eggs, raise the butterflies and release them (releasing is optional), but it would not be allowed to get them from the wild. It would be allowed to make your collection of dried butterflies from those, for example, by either waiting until they die, or killing them (no permit needed to kill a invertebrate, and no issue at all as not taken from the wild).

Permits for any kind of pet/ animal are rarely needed in Germany. It is more like: You can buy and have it (without permit), or you can't have it at all (at least as a private person). A permit is needed e.g. for fostering wildlife, or for keeping wildlife that can't be released. If you want to foster and/or keep the e.g. little fawn, or the squirrel with no tail - permit needed (or give it to somebody who has a permit; on the countryside it's usually a hunter, differently to in the US hunting isn't just allowed for almost everybody but needs training, quite difficult tests, certificate).
In case of buying a pet/ animal that is similar, or the same, as wild:
Some CITES paperwork is given by the breeder if an animal is similar to the wild one, so not domesticated. Cat doesn't come with CITES paperwork, Lacerta agilis from a breeder comes with, and when I was younger I had a species of mice that is native to Germany, is protected, and I bought them from a National Park ranger station - came with CITES. But also then you need no permit. Was also breeding them (but not selling them; I don't know what I would have needed to "forward" the CITES, in the sense of: proof I would sell some from captive mouse parents). Permit is needed for certain species like sugar gliders, monkeys... and you could not get that as a private person, so falls under "you just can't have it".