Clyde has Preovulatory Follicular Stasis

[clyde612]

I will get the visit summary and X-rays posted tomorrow, but essentially Clyde has been showing signs of being gravid because he is... kind of.

The eggs are very underdeveloped, and he has been showing gravid symptoms from 3-4 weeks now. The vet is recommending syringe fed calcium supplements, she also wanted to prescribe antibiotics (via injection) but I held off on it for now. Also, Clyde is also currently on de-worming medication for hookworms. Poor guy is going through a lot.

He has been barely eating for 3 weeks now, but not losing weight. Doctor said bone density looked good, but calcium supplement is so he doesn't start leeching calcium. I am also going to try feeding a slurry tomorrow. He ate 4 roaches on Saturday but hasn't eaten anything else all week probably. He will still eat hornworms and I am also going to feed some of those tomorrow (current gut-loading them with kale). The vet wanted to get him on antibiotics to stabilize him in case of a need for surgery (which I am scheduling for late late May just to reserve it). Surgery would mean removing the underdeveloped eggs and getting spayed. I was thinking about holding-off on antibiotics for now, starting the calcium supplements and maybe some slurry, and seeing if he will develop and lay the eggs (seems unlikely though). But she said there was also a risk of the eggs rupturing? If this happens will he suddenly die? Should I start antibiotics now in case this happens? She said to just monitor his behavior. He has been going into his hide halfway through the day and eating less so definitely not thriving. In the mornings he has been glass-surfing like crazy (more gravid behavior) which at least means he isn't extremely lethargic.

The plan I had was to wait on the antibiotics until about a week before I come home (around the 20th). If he hasn't laid anything he can get the antibiotic and then when I come home a week later he will be stable for the surgery.

I don't want to put him on antibiotics if he doesn't need them but I'm very worried about this rupturing business. Also, I am leaving town in 8 days and my mom will have to take over—I just want to leave him in an okay state. I will be back on the 27th of May. Very bad timing but I just need to know what I should do before I leave.

Also, will de-worming meds and antibiotics at the same time be dangerous?

Here's a photo of him looking cute at the vet.

 

[Longfellow777]

Maybe one of these people can answer the questions regarding meds/antibiotics @AHBD
@Drache613

 

[AHBD]

Such a chunky big headed girl, I can understand why you thought Clyde was a male in the past. Well the problem with follicular stasis is that no one can really predict whether they will burst , it may not be super common but it does happen. If Clyde's going in to surgery a vet will prescribe antibiotics ahead of time but I can't say how long it should be. Tracie might have more input but I sure hope everything works out for your girl !

 

[clyde612]

Okay, I am mainly worrying about the rupturing and deciding when to start antibiotics.

Clyde still gets up to bask in the morning but has been shortly returning to bed (hide) and staying in there all day unless I get him out to bask. I got him out today because he ate a hornworm and I wanted him to digest. He puffed up to bask and maybe 30 minutes later did his restless glass surfing shenanigans. He's been exploring the lay box but no dedicated digging. He is not eating salad nor roaches, only slurry and hornworms. I'm worried about his lethargy, it's not too bad but I don't know if I should give the antibiotic now or in two weeks (what is the likelihood an infection is starting?).

I also would love some advice for making slurry. I made one yesterday with kale, collard greens, zucchini, green beans, and water. I think it was too watery. I'll attach a video of him eating it.

I told his babysitter that if he won't eat a hornworm (he's still crazy about them), then he needs to go to the vet and get the antibiotic shot. Does that sound like a good plan?

I'm going to attach his visit summary and some photos. I don't have the X-rays yet but I should be getting them tomorrow.

 

[AHBD]

Flag Tracie [ Drache613 ] to see what she thinks.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Did you figure out a good slurry for your mom to give while you are gone?
Since she is already on deworming meds for hookworms, I would hold off on antibiotics
since she doesn't seem to be showing any signs of infection.
The primary issue is the egg development, correct?
I think the main thing is to make sure her calcium levels are up to par, so getting calcium
into her 4-5 days weekly is important with the egg development.
Eggs can rupture but that doesn't happen all that often. Has she shown any signs of trying
to dig or lay, etc yet? I wouldn't think so, since the eggs aren't shelled nor have they been
shelled & dropped to be ready to lay.
I would go ahead & finish out any deworming medication rounds, work on nutrition & hydration
status along with good calcium intake & see how she does.
Are you using a good UVB light also?
As AHBD suggested, they will most likely be proactive & prior to surgery prescribe an antibiotic
in case of infection. It doesn't sound real likely at the moment, she is at risk for infection right
now.

Tracie

 

[clyde612]

He was digging a couple of weeks ago but not passionately. Just playing around not making huge progress or digging for lots of time. Now he hasn’t dug at all, spending a lot of time in his hide during the day. I ticked him into eating a piece of mustard greens today by putting a hornworm in his salad. He’s still alert enough to stay awake for most the day and bask a little. Still glass surfs after basking a little, not as much as before though.

The issue is that he’s been showing signs of being gravid for at least a month and the eggs are still so underdeveloped. I’ll attack the x-rays below. Signs of being gravid started the very beginning of April. So it doesn’t look hopeful that they will get laid. Or is that normal?? When should I consider the surgery an absolute must? The vet said they usually give beardies a month to develop eggs before surgery and it has already been a month. The surgery would be the very end of May if he doesn’t lay, because that's when they have availability. Does this sound like the vet is being reasonable about the condition and timing?

What is the normal success rate of a spaying and egg removal surgery? If worried about Clyde not making it

@Drache613 you also said I shouldn’t do deworming meds and antibiotics at the same time. But if I were to go through with the surgery, he would need antibiotics before which would be around the same time of his final dose of deworming meds (the 21st). Does that sound like too much for him?

Also yes he was prescribed a calcium supplement. It is a liquid "Calcium Gluconate 23%" and he is getting 0.21mL daily. His UVB is just now 6 months old but it is a Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 HO 39W bulb that is 34". Cooper Dragon told me they are usually good for a whole year so I have been planning on replacing them every 9 months to be safe.

 

[clyde612]

The vet is thinking about getting Clyde in sooner rather than later, in case he is developing any kind of infection due to the stasis. With his energy levels decreasing it might be a good idea. He has been particularly lazy today, not gettin out of his hide this morning. I got him up and he looked out the window, after putting him back to bask he shortly returned to his hide. I came home and gave him slurry and the calcium supplement after getting him out of the hide again. He is out now but not super active.

I'm so worried about him.

The vet wants to schedule the surgery for March 12th, he would need to get the antibiotic shot by Thursday but that is my graduation day (from college) so I would need to do it tomorrow––it's an hour and a half drive each way. I leave on the 8th and my mom would take him to the surgery and take care of him after. I barely even want to celebrate graduation or go on my trip I'm just so worried he won't make it.

Any advice?

 

[AHBD]

I don't have any advice but I'm really sorry that this stressful situation has happened to you + Clyde. All I can offer is my best wishes for a good outcome.

 

[clyde612]

Thank you <3 here's Clyde right now. Not super active but alert and adorable.

I'm not ready to say goodbye on Sunday knowing there's some chance he could not make it through surgery.

 

[AHBD]

Sweet little face ! I can't imagine how stressful this is, such a hard decision. In some ways I'd think that I would want to wait but I'd be on the fence about it .

 

[clyde612]

The vet said that at this point all of the lizards she (and the other vet) have seen never developed the eggs. The stasis can create infection or the rare bursting of the eggs. I would hold off too but with Clyde’s appetite and activity diminishing and the eggs still being so underdeveloped, it doesn’t seem like normal laying is going to be likely. He is still active enough, exploring outside his tank rn. He just climbed up a few pillows to get a better view of the window

I forgot to ask the vet about reabsorption of eggs. Could Clyde reabsorb his eggs or is that a myth?

I won’t be back until the 27th and I guess that would be 2 months of eggs and no laying or significant development. I’m also so scared that if he gets an infection it will be too late.

 

[AHBD]

They can reabsorb them but I don't know if it's a risky thing. You'll have to make the decision though.

 

[Jessss]

The vet said that at this point all of the lizards she (and the other vet) have seen never developed the eggs. The stasis can create infection or the rare bursting of the eggs. I would hold off too but with Clyde’s appetite and activity diminishing and the eggs still being so underdeveloped, it doesn’t seem like normal laying is going to be likely. He is still active enough, exploring outside his tank rn. He just climbed up a few pillows to get a better view of the window

I forgot to ask the vet about reabsorption of eggs. Could Clyde reabsorb his eggs or is that a myth?

I won’t be back until the 27th and I guess that would be 2 months of eggs and no laying or significant development. I’m also so scared that if he gets an infection it will be too late.

Hi,
Did you go ahead with surgery? My girl bee was in this position a couple of weeks ago,she was spayed and recovered well.One egg did burst (her eggs were all soft with no shells) while they were operating but luckily they flushed it out,the aftermath of surgery was very traumatic on both myself and bee but after a few days she was a lot better.I was very worried about surgery but had no choice as they were attaching to her ovaries and she was rushed in for surgery the same day as she was seen by her vet.
I hope all is well and your little one is feeling a bit better

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry, I must have missed your last response. Did you end up having her in for surgery?
The reason it isn't always a good idea to do antibiotics & deworming is it can sometimes overwhelm
their system.
I hope that she is doing better, surgery or no surgery. Please let us know how she is doing. I am
sure it has been stressful with everything, with graduation, your trip, etc.

Tracie