EllenD":295u9svs said:Hi, welcome to the forum! Your setup looks really good, temps are good, lighting is good, and spike looks healthy and a good size for 6 months old. Don't worry at all about the humidity being over 40%, a lot of people get very worried about the humidity in their beardie's enclosure, but it has to be very high and consistently so to actually cause a respiratory infection or any other health issues, my enclosures will sometimes spike into the 60% range on very humid days, it's not an issue. 41% is perfectly acceptable for a beardie. I do want to ask though, what is the purpose of the PVC pipe on/around his enclosure? I have the same size EXO Terra for my rescue beardie, it's a great size tank and I love the front doors, but I couldn't figure out what the purpose of the PVC is?
So how is Spike's breathing now? How long has he been on the antibiotics now for the upper respiratory infection? I'm glad he's starting to eat more, not only was he sick with the infection, but in addition the antibiotics are always hard on beardies, so something to always think about any time they're on any meds or even the moment they start acting like they may be sick and they stop eating, is to get them on a once daily dose of probiotics, they work wonders in settling their stomachs, getting their bowel movements normalized, and replacing the normal, healthy bacteria that lives in their gastrointestinal tracts which is killed off by the antibiotics. Yeast infections often arise after a course of antibiotics because the antibiotics kill off the normal, healthy bacteria in their gastrointestinal tracts that normally keeps the yeast at bay. So whether by giving him a reptile-specific probiotic supplement, a non-dairy lacto acidophilus supplement you can find at health food stores or in the organic and vegan foods section of higher end grocery stores, or by simply buying a container of non-dairy soy yogurt with live and active cultures and feeding him as much as he'll eat throughout the antibiotic course, it will help him get back on track quickly.
I definitely see the lump that you're taking about, but the question is going to be can you see it from inside his mouth, if you look down under his lip and tongue? Is it always there (when he's sitting upright of course, if turned on his back you probably wouldn't see it)? It looks like it's down in his jaw, not a growth that is in his outer skin or on his face...When did this first appear? Before or after he started having symptoms of the upper respiratory infection?
Take a look if you can inside his lower left mouth, under his lip, and see if you can see any wounds, blood, growths, discolorations, or swelling. Beardies have lymph nodes just like we do, though I'll admit I don't know where their lymph nodes all are, but they work just like ours, so it could be a swollen glands in reaction to the upper respiratory infection. Does it seem to be sore or cause him pain if you press on it? When you do press on it, is it hard or soft?
Beardies also hold food and water in their beards all the time, I've actually thought my big girl's neck or mouth was swollen in one area before, only to see her holding her greens in her mouth/beard for later. So if it comes and goes (especially if it shows up right after he eats) it may be him holding something in there as well.
Beardienewbie8792":3pixs8m1 said:Hi,
Thanks for your response. The PVC is connected to a humidifier which is hooked up to a hygrotherm and is set at 38%. If the humidity goes under that percentage it blows into the tank (the pvc has holes cut into it going across the top of the tank) I've had it for a couple of months now, but before I got it, I was struggling daily to keep the humidity up. It was dropping into the 20s or lower.
<<<< unnecessary .... if the humidity falls to low levels this is NOT an issue as ultralow humidities are common in the dry season in their natural range.
I dare say many here will be envying your low relative humidities.
When I saw the PVC piping I thought it was to hold the power cables and I thought , this person has small kids and wants to make sure the cables are away for their fingers ....
My question is, if the temps are good, and humidity is good what could have caused the respiratory infection?
<<< aspirating water while drinking or bathing will do it.
He didn't seem to have any breathing issues before I took him to the vet, and he did that thing where their beard goes in and out and they look like they're going to throw up once and it was on sunday, I took him to the vet this past Monday. I started his antibiotics on Tuesday so hes been on them for 5 days now. He didn't eat anything on Tuesday, and barely anything on Wednesday. Yesterday he ate 20 worms, and most of his veggies. Today he ate well too he's been more active, and more alert the past 2 days. He hasn't had any side effects so far from the antibiotics. He hasn't pooped since sunday, however he just started eating yesterday. Do you still think I should look into a probiotic? and do you have any brands that you recommend?
>>> only a week no poo ? no great drama , see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=232446
I tried taking a look, but he's not having it. I will try it again in a little bit and let you know if I see anything. I did press on it and it is hard and he didn't seem to have a reaction. Yes it is always there, and no if turned on his back you probably wouldn't see it, but you would think you would feel it right? when the vet had him on his back and was feeling his beard, he asked me to show him where the bumb was and i felt around and didn't even feel it. and when he was upright the vet didn't notice anything, and I wasn't really able to see spike to point it out because he was standing in front of me. He did put a camera in his mouth and looked at his throat. I'm not sure if he looked around his jaw or tongue though.
I noticed the bumb about 4 weeks ago. But there were no symptoms of the respiratory infection besides the day before when he did the hacking and beard thing. I had to travel for work, and the week prior is when I noticed it. He was eating, but not the normal amount and seemed very lethargic before I left. While I was gone my dad took care of him and said he was eating but not the normal amount. I got back the 14th. He wouldn't eat at all the entire week I was back, and was very lethargic and not basking. I couldn't take him to the vet because being out of the office I needed to catch up. So I took him this past Monday. When this all started I did not think he had a respiratory infection because he was not showing signs of trouble breathing, or the looking like he was going to throw up thing. He was just very lethargic and laid with his head down. What I did notice prior to the bump was that he kept doing this thing with his tongue (this is going to be hard to explain lol) like he kept sticking it in and out multiple times at a time in the air, it sorta seemed like he was doing it because something was on it or something. but there was nothing on it so I have no idea why he was doing that.. do you know what I mean?
Thank you for help!
Drache613":2bwb8id0 said:Hello,
Your setup sounds fine, so I don't think it's something with your setup.
A small, hard bump like that is probably a cyst, not likely an abscess.
You could take him in to see the vet so that they could x-ray it to determine what
it could be.
See if you can keep his tank around 80 overnight to help boost his system, in case
he possibly has any respiratory issues developing.
Is he doing well otherwise?
Tracie
AHBD":3rv3qy85 said:Hi there, how did the vet determine that he has an R.I. ? Sometimes just being too cool is what causes it. It looks like there may be just one hot area there in his tank so if he spent much time on the floor then he could become sick from the constant cooler temps.
Another way they get sick is that some owners bathe their beardie in the evening like you would a child, then either let them out in the room to run around [ where it's not hot enough to properly dry off ] or they put them back in the tank + turn lights out before the dragon can dry off completely.
The bump looks like a small cyst of some sort but may be connected to his strange tongue movements....like he feels something that he wants to dislodge.
Drache613":2srietli said:Hello,
Your setup sounds fine, so I don't think it's something with your setup.
A small, hard bump like that is probably a cyst, not likely an abscess.
You could take him in to see the vet so that they could x-ray it to determine what
it could be.
See if you can keep his tank around 80 overnight to help boost his system, in case
he possibly has any respiratory issues developing.
Is he doing well otherwise?
Tracie
EllenD":1kw9r94w said:Clever way of monitoring and controlling the humidity in his enclosure, though as I and others have said, humidity is not a big issue at all with beardies. They can deal with a very wide range of humidity levels, and honestly the range that is acceptable is from very, very low (below 20%) to up into the 60's+. Just as with some reptiles UVB light exposure is not terribly important yet it is vital to a beardie, humidity is crucial to most tropical reptiles, but not to desert ones.
So basically you have no idea if he actually ever had a respiratory infection at all? The only way to diagnose a respiratory infection is by doing a culture, and often times they are caused by a bacterial infection, a fungal infection, or both. But if Spike was not wheezing, coughing, clicking, etc. he most likely never had a respiratory infection to begin with. Basically your vet based that diagnosis on the tongue thing he was doing as either you described to him, or maybe he actually saw it. This is not a sign or symptom of an upper respiratory infection at all, but rather of a problem with a tooth, of the inside of the mouth, or with the tongue itself. If you had come in and describe the tongue thing he was doing to me along with the hard lump in his lower jaw, I would ask about any noises while breathing, and coughing, or any trouble breathing. When you said he was having none of those issues I'd most likely think that his entire issue had to do with the lump in his jaw, not with his respiratory system.
As already stated, I think its most likely a cyst of some kind. It could be causing him pain, especially when he eats, which could very well be the explanation for his recent behavior. If the vet did blood work (I don't recall if he did or not) and his white cells were elevated, then it very well could be an abscess, I doubt it but you never know. Has it gotten any larger since you first saw it?
It may just get folded up in his beard when he's on his back, it definitely is if it's in his cheek or lip and not on his gums or jaw, as it would be able to move with the excess skin. I would call your vet again and explain the mass to him, and tell him your concerns. Tell him he has to examine it while he is upright, he should be able to explore the inside of his mouth a lot easier than you can. The fear is that it's an abscess or could be the start of mouth rot or some other type of infection that could not only make him very sick, but could also effect his teeth. He should be able to try and draw fluid from it with a syringe, or if it is fibrous, which it probably is if it's hard, he can take a sample for biopsy to rule out a malignancy and possibly determine what it is. I'm almost certain that's what he's doing with his tongue, I've seen them do that when they have mouth rot too, it's just a reaction to something being wrong inside their mouth.
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