Breathing on their back

[jarich]

Ive seen it mentioned on a few different threads here that bearded dragons cannot breathe when placed on their backs. Its the first Ive ever heard of this. The only thing I can think of is that people are referring to tonic immobility. However, this doesnt stop them from breathing, but merely is a normal instinctual response to external stimuli. Im interested to hear more on this and if there is any morphological curiosity regarding this species in particular that I am not aware of.

 

[zandi202]

Bearded dragons don't have a diaphragm to help their lungs move. The same goes for leopard geckos. So when they're on their backs it is impossible for them to breath. Someone's baby on the forum fell onto their back during the night and died because it hadn't been flipped over in time. My Jace also fell onto his back once and couldn't breath, when I flipped him over he started have a mini seizure. He's better now, but I had sincerely thought I was going to loose him.

 

[jarich]

Hmmmmm thats what I was afraid of. Youre right, of course, in saying that bearded dragons do not have a diaphragm, but thats because no lizard does. The most 'evolved' in that regard have a proto diaphragm, but thats about it. Lizards breathe by contracting muscles to expand the ribcage, which thus sucks air into the lungs. Its the same thing as we do with our diaphragm, just a different starting point. Its also why many lizards cant run for more than a short burst of time. The same muscles they use for locomotion are the ones that are used for breathing, so its usually a trade off to a certain extent. (some families of lizard employ what is called gular pumping to compensate for that shortcoming) There is nothing about being on their backs that would negate this breathing apparatus either way though. With the examples you have given the more interesting question is why the lizards were not able to right themselves on their own. Unlike a turtle, a lizard with long appendages and tail should have no problem in righting itself. I would guess with the person whose dragon died that other issues were to blame. As for your Jace, it sounds like you fell prey to the dreaded thanatosis!

 

[Tonja]

I did a very detailed answer in a thread about this subject. Lungs can collapse when beardies are on their backs. Its very serious when that happens. I am not going to repeat all of it here, its way to much to do so.

 

[jarich]

I had someone send me that thread and took a look, and there was some interesting information there Tonja. Obviously your knowledge of human anatomy is extensive, but I think there was some confusion in its transfer for comparative anatomy.

There shouldnt really be any more pressure from the organs as they sit caudal rather than ventral to the lungs. Either way, Im not an authority, so I asked Doug Mader, who said it was not an issue. Again, not too much reason to flip them on their backs that I can think of, but shouldnt be a concern or cause for alarm either.

 

[Tonja]

I will not reply to this again after this. Beardies cannot breathe on their backs and it can lead to collapsed lungs. No matter who you spoke with, it is an issue and we have had one member here already almost lose a beardie to flipping on its back. He no longer has the use of his right lung. I am so sorry that misinformation is going to hurt someones beardie. It is a huge problem and yes I do have a lot of human knowledge after being a paramedic. The research is out there no one wants to take the time to look for it. Some just seem to want to assume that a beardie on its back is perfectly ok when its not.