Bone cancer or something else?

Hi, i took my beardie today to the vet because he has a soft lump on his tail. He can't move his tail normally below the lump, other than that he is perfectly normal with a ravenous appetite and lots of energy. The vet took some x rays, which were very concerning. I will post the pics here, and if someone can tell something about the x rays, i would really appreciate it. The vet suspects osteosarcoma, i'm thinking could it be osteomyelitis? Any help is appreciated. We are going to a control appointment in one week.
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
This is also the only spot like this. Everything else is perfectly fine. Clearly there is something there, but could it be something else than cancer?
1000032748.jpg
 

xp29

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Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
This is also the only spot like this. Everything else is perfectly fine. Clearly there is something there, but could it be something else than cancer?
View attachment 93178
Even if it is cancerous it looks to be halfway down the tail. If need be they could amputate it above that and as long as it hasn't spread your beardie can still live a good and long life. Tail amputations don't hugely effect quality of life for beardies. (Not that I'm advocating for that, I hope it's something curable, but if not, hopefully it's something stopable)
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Even if it is cancerous it looks to be halfway down the tail. If need be they could amputate it above that and as long as it hasn't spread your beardie can still live a good and long life. Tail amputations don't hugely effect quality of life for beardies. (Not that I'm advocating for that, I hope it's something curable, but if not, hopefully it's something stopable)
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately the spot is at 1/3 of the tail, and the vet said that amputation probably isn't an option here because of the location being so high up. Although i've seen total tail amputations in beardies. My fella is 13 years old, and i see him using his tail for balance more than in younger years. 😕 Not sure how he would heal from the operation or cope with the tail loss. Good news were that there was no signs of spreading and he is in great condition otherwise. I also thought if they could remove that spot locally through a small incision. I guess we'll have to see what next week brings.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Looks to me like vertebrae are missing at that section. Are there any previous X-rays?
I was thinking of something he was just born with, similar to missing vertebrae and ribs, and spina bifida in other vertebrates like humans, and then maybe that got worse (caused inability to more tail) with age or a normally relatively small injury.
Bone cancer usually looks different, a growth of bones like bones becoming larger and fragile. I'd think this would look differently in an X-ray?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh that is definitely something going on. I agree, you could do amputation, as long as there isn't cancer
which has spread. Bless him. Did they do a blood test?
They do heal up from tail amputation. It is unfortunate he would lose a good amount of his tail. It is good
to hear he is active right now. That is a possibility they could operate just on that area, they could look at
that option perhaps. That is great however, there doesn't seem to be any spreading from the area.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Looks to me like vertebrae are missing at that section. Are there any previous X-rays?
I was thinking of something he was just born with, similar to missing vertebrae and ribs, and spina bifida in other vertebrates like humans, and then maybe that got worse (caused inability to more tail) with age or a normally relatively small injury.
Bone cancer usually looks different, a growth of bones like bones becoming larger and fragile. I'd think this would look differently in an X-ray?
Thank you for your comment. There definitely is vertebrae destruction, or a severe inflammation hiding the bones beneath it(not sure if that is actually possible). Our vet suspected the first, saying it is a lytic lesion which is one possible result of a certain bone tumor. My beardie has had x rays before, i never saw them, but the vet said everything was perfectly normal. Also he developed this tail lump all of a sudden, so i believe this is a fairly new problem with him. Happy to hear that your experience is that bone cancer looks different usually, that was also my experience. There seems to be similar looking outcome of bone cancer, but i've not found anything exactly same looking yet. That spot seems to have some "fluff" in the x ray instead of being totally empty, and you can see the structure of that "fluffy" area.
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh that is definitely something going on. I agree, you could do amputation, as long as there isn't cancer
which has spread. Bless him. Did they do a blood test?
They do heal up from tail amputation. It is unfortunate he would lose a good amount of his tail. It is good
to hear he is active right now. That is a possibility they could operate just on that area, they could look at
that option perhaps. That is great however, there doesn't seem to be any spreading from the area.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
Thank you for your comment. They didn't do any blood tests yet, they didn't see them necessary at this point. My beardie got an antibiotic injection, and we are now waiting if that would help with the swelling, and maybe then we could try to empty that lump next week. Earlier today i called the vet office asking if we should also consider osteomyelitis, i'm waiting for them to call back. I reckon they are doing some consulting since it has been a few hours now. Patient himself has been very happy today, showing bright orange colors.
 

xp29

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Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately the spot is at 1/3 of the tail, and the vet said that amputation probably isn't an option here because of the location being so high up. Although i've seen total tail amputations in beardies. My fella is 13 years old, and i see him using his tail for balance more than in younger years. 😕 Not sure how he would heal from the operation or cope with the tail loss. Good news were that there was no signs of spreading and he is in great condition otherwise. I also thought if they could remove that spot locally through a small incision. I guess we'll have to see what next week brings.
Wow 13 is indeed a good number!!! We see beardies that old from time to time (it's kindda rare) but it is still a testament to the care you've provided! I really hope they can solve his ailment and you have him for another 13 years 🙂
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot. I for sure hope he would be around for many years to come, but never in my wildest dreams when i was 19 and got him did i imagine i would be over 30 and still have him in my life. I am very happy for all these years, and not ready to lose him, although i understand that is inevitable.
Wow 13 is indeed a good number!!! We see beardies that old from time to time (it's kindda rare) but it is still a testament to the care you've provided! I really hope they can solve his ailment and you have him for another 13 years 🙂
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Happy to hear that your experience is that bone cancer looks different usually, that was also my experience. There seems to be similar looking outcome of bone cancer, but i've not found anything exactly same looking yet. That spot seems to have some "fluff" in the x ray instead of being totally empty, and you can see the structure of that "fluffy" area.
Luckily, knowing how bone cancer often looks on X-rays doesn't come from my experience with somebody (human or animal) suffering from it.
I can't see any "fluff" around that in the x-ray your posted, but only in the section where the bones are missing I can see the scales very much. But that depends on the x-ray. The bone is for sure not hidden below something, because everything that is bone or "hides" bone (as it is denser) would appear almost white to white on an x-ray. Dark is where the rays go through very well, and white is where they go through less good to not, like bones, or metal from implants, or when for an x-ray something is marked on the skin with a small metal object like a paperclip. So if that part appears dark, there is no bone "below" and that part is less dense than bone - that bone is mostly gone, i can only see some tiny white points where there might be remnants of the bone. (I got "tons" of spine x-rays done, but luckily not for bone cancer but for a severely deformed spine. And everything as dense as bones, or denser, like an implant or something marked on the skin with sticking a paperclip or wire onto the skin appeared white, too.)

So for some reason the bone is very likely gone, and this would affect his spinal cord as it's now open. Likely the reason for the tail problems. In humans, swelling often appears when the spinal cord is open - like for example in an infant with spina bifida. There is a liquid in it that then leaks and causes swelling.
If that's the case is, of course, something the vet has to tell. It's just of what this reminds me (vertebrae missing, spinal cord open causes problem with moving that part of the body and causes swelling), and of what it reminds me rather not (something "hiding" the spine normally looks different: either bones still visible very much (soft tissue) or brighter than the bones (something made from bone structure)).

Let's see how he does, and what the vet might say.
I also agree, 13 years is an old age - but your dragon seems to be fit otherwise :)
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Luckily, knowing how bone cancer often looks on X-rays doesn't come from my experience with somebody (human or animal) suffering from it.
I can't see any "fluff" around that in the x-ray your posted, but only in the section where the bones are missing I can see the scales very much. But that depends on the x-ray. The bone is for sure not hidden below something, because everything that is bone or "hides" bone (as it is denser) would appear almost white to white on an x-ray. Dark is where the rays go through very well, and white is where they go through less good to not, like bones, or metal from implants, or when for an x-ray something is marked on the skin with a small metal object like a paperclip. So if that part appears dark, there is no bone "below" and that part is less dense than bone - that bone is mostly gone, i can only see some tiny white points where there might be remnants of the bone. (I got "tons" of spine x-rays done, but luckily not for bone cancer but for a severely deformed spine. And everything as dense as bones, or denser, like an implant or something marked on the skin with sticking a paperclip or wire onto the skin appeared white, too.)

So for some reason the bone is very likely gone, and this would affect his spinal cord as it's now open. Likely the reason for the tail problems. In humans, swelling often appears when the spinal cord is open - like for example in an infant with spina bifida. There is a liquid in it that then leaks and causes swelling.
If that's the case is, of course, something the vet has to tell. It's just of what this reminds me (vertebrae missing, spinal cord open causes problem with moving that part of the body and causes swelling), and of what it reminds me rather not (something "hiding" the spine normally looks different: either bones still visible very much (soft tissue) or brighter than the bones (something made from bone structure)).

Let's see how he does, and what the vet might say.
I also agree, 13 years is an old age - but your dragon seems to be fit otherwise :)
Thank you again for your reply. I drew the outlines that i could somewhat see from that "fluffy" area. I'm thinking if that is inflammation, spinal fluid or something else, the shape is weird. I'm not sure if a lytic lesion would be irregular like that? What i saw while googling x rays of osteomyelitis there was one case that looked very similar to this, and during healing there started to appear healthy bone, probably just new forming bone. But i'm probably biased here, trying to find a reason that is curable.

I have to read about that spina bifida. Although i'm not sure if that could be the case here, since he developed these symptoms all of a sudden. I just can't wait for the next appointment, i need an answer and a solution right now. 😅 My beardie is fit, but has definitely been showing signs of aging for the last few years. Those signs added to this situation makes it hard to decide whether i want curative treatment or palliative treatment, if it is something not easily treated. Him being pain free is of course what matters the most.

Ohh how the time stands still while waiting to find out more.
 

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ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
I have to read about that spina bifida. Although i'm not sure if that could be the case here, since he developed these symptoms all of a sudden. I
No, I also would not think of real spina bifida, which is a birth defect. But vertebrae gone missing can cause the same. Only, in humans just vertebrae gone missing "on their own" (no accident, no surgery that removed them) is rather rare as at least when there is medical attention usually it's spotted much earlier that something is going on, long before that vertebrae is gone.
So only similarity I meant here is: What happens when vertebrae are gone? Then the spinal cord usually becomes damaged and this leads to fluid leaking out (swelling) and the spinal cord gets damaged so everything below that can't be moved at all or only little.
Those signs added to this situation makes it hard to decide whether i want curative treatment or palliative treatment, if it is something not easily treated. Him being pain free is of course what matters the most.
Palliative can still mean having a normal life span, especially in relatively old age - and not only such as e.g. pain medication before an animal (or human) will die soon.
Especially when a treatment won't make the situation better, and it indeed could be left as it is (that's something a vet must know) with no or little treatment. At least, it's "only" the tail - I know dragons use it a lot, but at least not as bad as affecting the hind legs (in humans treatment in similar cases can mean the difference between "can walk, sometimes even normally" and "can absolutely not walk").
 

TinyBeardie

Member
Original Poster
No, I also would not think of real spina bifida, which is a birth defect. But vertebrae gone missing can cause the same. Only, in humans just vertebrae gone missing "on their own" (no accident, no surgery that removed them) is rather rare as at least when there is medical attention usually it's spotted much earlier that something is going on, long before that vertebrae is gone.
So only similarity I meant here is: What happens when vertebrae are gone? Then the spinal cord usually becomes damaged and this leads to fluid leaking out (swelling) and the spinal cord gets damaged so everything below that can't be moved at all or only little.

Palliative can still mean having a normal life span, especially in relatively old age - and not only such as e.g. pain medication before an animal (or human) will die soon.
Especially when a treatment won't make the situation better, and it indeed could be left as it is (that's something a vet must know) with no or little treatment. At least, it's "only" the tail - I know dragons use it a lot, but at least not as bad as affecting the hind legs (in humans treatment in similar cases can mean the difference between "can walk, sometimes even normally" and "can absolutely not walk").
You are definitely right, thank you for your wise words.
 

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