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Bent Wrists!

Aomusik

Member
Evening all,

Just purchased my bearded dragon from Petco today.

She is 6 months old and is very big.

When getting her, the manager told me that she was very healthy and that she was unique because she was double-jointed and showed me how her hands bent backwards. My beardy did not mind her bending her wrist so I thought it was normal/unique.

I just placed her on my tank (20 gallon, but if I keep her I would upgrade to a 40 gal ASAP) and she walks different. She seems very energetic, and eats a LOT. Can get around on her own but mostly crawls. Here is a video of her moving around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jogMcy1gAgs

What should I do? Should I return her? I have 30 days to make a decision. I am very concerned. She is super nice, likes to be held, and loves being carried. She's super cute but if you guys think I should return her because there is something very wrong with her then I'll listen to your advice. If you think this is normal and I should keep her then I will gladly because I fell in love with her!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

So sorry that your girl has some trouble! You just purchased her today, so they had to know she
was having some trouble.
It appears she has severe neurological issues which are most likely caused by calcium deficiency.
Can you let us know which UVB light you are using for her right now?
That is always a hard call on whether or not to return her. Since you have 30 days, you have
some time. Have you spoken to the store regarding this?
You could get her started on some liquid calcium as well, along with good UVB lighting could
improve her overall condition in a relatively short amount of time.
Since she is eating well, that is a great sign right now.
Let us know what you decide.

Tracie
 

Aomusik

Member
Original Poster
Hello Tracie,

Thank you for your response!

Currently my UVB bulb is a “26 Watt Exo Terra® Repti Glo Desert Terrarium Bulb - UVB 150“ and my basking bulb is a “75 Watt Thrive Essential Reptile Basking Spot Bulb.”

Yesterday i dusted her crickets with “ Fluker's® Phosphorous Free Calcium with Vitamin D3 Indoor Reptile Supplement.” She ate 10 -15 medium crickets in less than 15 minutes.

Do you think she will get better if i keep at it? I really like her, and want her to get better but if the damage she has is permanent, i would think the best move would be to return her.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
If you return her to the store they will just let her die- she need proper care so its up to you -- you can stop it from getting worse but shes going to need the proper UVB placement and distance -- she has not had the proper care at the store and what the manager told you is BS!! If you keep her you need to get rid of the coil UVB and get this a 24" fixture it comes w/ a 5.0 bulb hang on to it use it as a back up if you need to distance and placement is different from the bulb you need to get https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/zoo-med-reptisun-t5-ho-terrarium-hood.html
you want this bulb 22" they are sold out on this website so I sending you to another website that has them https://www.petmountain.com/product/zoo-med-reptisun-t5-ho-100-uvb-high-output-bulbs?variant=40630 this is going to be the best set up for her and you need it ASAP--- it is so sad to see dragons being sold in this condition - and it is the pet stores fault - she has not had adequate UVB -- please get a basking temp of her basking spot where she sits it should be 95-100 taken w/ a digital probe thermometer NO stick ons they are inaccurate -- she should be eating live insects crickets dubia roaches dusted w/ calcium D3 5 x per week ONCE per feeding vitamins w / beat carotene 2 x per week ONCE per feeding she should also be fed salads every morning http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html ignore the kale thing its a good staple feeder
She needs the proper care and if you listen to us we can help you w/ her -- if you return her to the store no telling what will happen w/ her -- as of this time w/ the proper lighting and diet she will have a chance -- DO NOT LISTEN to the pet store people any more -- please let us know what you decide --- but she needs that UVB ASAP
 

Aomusik

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

KarrieRee:

I am currently building a new terrarium for her to accommodate the light fixture you recommended. This new terrarium will be 45" x 16" x 16".

I will be purchasing either the 30" or 36" light fixture you recommended with the Reptisun 10 UVB lamp (17 watts) from my local Petsmart. They have it in stock and I can get it within this week.

Do you think this is enough for her? Also, this light will be 16" from her, is this too much or should I do something to make it closer to her to get the optimal results? Thank you!


Drache613 (Tracie):

Which liquid calcium do you recommend I get? Also, how often should I give her the liquid calcium for optimal results? Thank you!
 

Cuttlefishh

Hatchling Member
Hello, your beardie is very cute and looks to have good energy; sorry that shes not well

What she's doing is referred to as "clubbing" I believe which is telltale of MBD

Please don't get the 17w tube- it is T8 and your beardie would need to be within 6-8inches of it inside the tank. Your beardie will struggle greatly to climb to get its effectiveness due to her issues currently.

Please instead get the 24w T5 and a T5 fixture; have it fixed inside and then 12-14" away directly above basking should be good. Make sure the fixture has a reflector as well!

I've used liquid calcium, you can look up "reptile one" or "vetafarm" for this; get a 0.5 or 1cc syringe and the instructions will be on the bottle on how to dose for her weight
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is your girl doing today?
I have an online store that includes a liquid calcium so if you would like to try some for her,
I can get you my website link. It would help absorb more quickly than just powder.
As for the lighting & the UVB I would recommend upgrading to either the Reptisun 10 tube
bulb or the Arcadia D3 12% or 14% tube bulb for the best exposure of UVB. The basking
light you are using will be fine as long as it's getting to the optimal basking temperatures.

Tracie
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
45" x 16" x 16" is a 50 gallon tank -- I would go w/ a 4x2x2 if you can--- that is a 120 gallon tank and you would be able to accommodate her disabilities since your building it your self --- like Tracie said you should go w/ the T 5 or the Arcadia Desert bulb 12% -- if you went w/ the 24" high tank then you could go w/ the Arcadia 14% bulb those are very strong bulbs and need a distance of at least 24" -- w / a distance of 17-18 inches from basking decor piece ---distance in the 16" tank is really pushing it for the T 5 as they require a distance of 12-15 inches from the basking decor piece -- the UVB your looking at Petco / Petsmart is good but not as strong and like Cuttlefish posted is not as strong and would require the distance of 6-8 inches from basking decor- that would be good for the 50 gallon tank but not as strong as the T 5-- of which she would benefit from versus the T 8-- it is up to you those are just thoughts --- I am glad you have decided to keep her --- and doing the research for a new tank and what would benefit her shows you are looking out for her --- I have heard of clubbing before and if she were to return to the pet store I am afraid she would of been subject to neglect and just not good -- its good she has gone to a loving home --
 

Aomusik

Member
Original Poster
Good morning all,

I think I might be extra hopeful but today her back legs seemed stronger. She ate her morning crickets (5-7) in less than 3 minutes. I gut load those crickets to the max. Then she climbed her hide with little to no effort and chilled under her basking bulb. Temperature readings are showing (from probe) 95 F on the middle of the fixture. The bottom is cooler, the top is hotter, so she can choose the best spot on her own. She still clubbing but, hopefully that will go away. What do you guys think, would that be possible at this stage?

The humidity ranges from 35% to 45%. When i get home (around 6:30 pm) I grab crickets with my tweezers, put some calcium dust on it, then feed them to her so she doesn't have to move much. I do this with at least 6-8 medium crickets. Then get some worms and feed them to her as well. She doesn't seem to like greens that much but I give her some anyways. Her bowl always contains pellets, worms, and kale sprinkled with the calcium dust. She always goes inside her hide around 9:30 pm, scratches everything, then goes to sleep. She's very punctual! I will be getting her some liquid calcium as recommended either today or tomorrow.

I did the research on the bulbs you guys recommended but no one seems to have it locally. I rather get them from Petsmart which is near me and I can get them either today or tomorrow. Does petsmart sell the bulbs you guys recommend? Maybe you can post some links that way I can go get them TODAY!

Worst case scenario, I will get them from www.pangeareptile.com but they will arrive sometime next week, and I rather not wait that long:

• Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB T5 HO (34")
• Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Terrarium Fixture (36")

The tank that I'm building will be upgraded in 6 months to the 4x2x2. Currently the one I'm building is 16" tall but the bulbs will be at least 8" away from the top of her hide, which is 8" tall, where she can climb with no problem. Now that I'm custom-building her terrarium, what do you guys suggest I do to help with her disability? Also, do you think the calcium sand will help or, should I stay away from that?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Stay away from the sand please-- I am going to refer you to AHBD she can help w / the disabilities part better than I and Tracie too -- the fixture I would order from pangea they are really good at getting the orders out --- you need the T 5 Reptisun 10.0 bulb -- the fixture comes w/ the 5.0 bulb but it is like or equivalent to the T 8 it is more for the aquarium use-- that 5.0 bulb would be more for a 20 gallon tank or one real low height wise -- its good shes getting around so well -- that is a good sign and w/ the good UVB I dont know if she will improve or not that is something Tracie would need to answer but she wont get any worse w/ the proper lighting -- please no more pellets - you can order some BSFL from here http://www.symtonbsf.com
feed as many as you want they are a great staple feeder as well -- along w/ her crickets the two would be good-- dubia roaches as well www.dubiaroaches.com
Is she in the 40 gallon tank now? You can go w/ a 24" fixture and use that in the 40 gallon and when you move her to the 4x2x2 it can be used in that tank as well -- I have the 4x2x2 and use the 24" fixture -- it is up to you but whatever you decide to do you have options - you can get some textured NON adhesive shelf liner for the tank now - cut it to the size of the tank and clean w/ vinegar/ water 50/50 solution -- you can find it at your local home improvement store -- your insects cannot get under it --
 

Cuttlefishh

Hatchling Member
She's still growing and looks sturdy other than the current symptoms, I think if you get the husbandry spot on early and give her the calcium you can possibly reverse some of these symptoms; so glad you're taking time and effort to do this shes a beautiful dragon and deserves a loving owner like yourself :)

She should be okay to wait for a week to get the t5, can just take her out in the direct sun for 15-20 minutes a day until it arrives; trust me- it will save you heaps of money and grief to get the right stuff from the get go-- I also used compacts, then went t8 In a 3ft tank only to end up having to do the full upgrade to t5 in a 4x2x2 anyway :lol: it seems like small details but really makes a big difference on their overall quality of life
 

Aomusik

Member
Original Poster
Evening!

Quick Update:
Just purchased the "Zoo Med Reptisun T5 HO Terrarium Hood, 30" with "Zoo Med 26061 Reptisun 10.0 T5-HO UVB 24W Fluorescent Lamp, 22"" from Amazon. They had the fastest delivery, and should be here this Friday!

Also, I ordered 50 Dubia Roaches and a large escape proof feeder dish from dubiaroaches.com like KarrieRee suggested. They should be getting here either Monday or Tuesday. Tomorrow I'll be purchasing more crickets, horn worms, wax worms and the liquid calcium from Petsmart.

I'm almost done building her new terrarium. It will be complete as soon as I get the hood and lamp.
 

Cuttlefishh

Hatchling Member
Aomusik":xm38v6ta said:
Evening!

Quick Update:
Just purchased the "Zoo Med Reptisun T5 HO Terrarium Hood, 30" with "Zoo Med 26061 Reptisun 10.0 T5-HO UVB 24W Fluorescent Lamp, 22"" from Amazon. They had the fastest delivery, and should be here this Friday!

Also, I ordered 50 Dubia Roaches and a large escape proof feeder dish from dubiaroaches.com like KarrieRee suggested. They should be getting here either Monday or Tuesday. Tomorrow I'll be purchasing more crickets, horn worms, wax worms and the liquid calcium from Petsmart.

I'm almost done building her new terrarium. It will be complete as soon as I get the hood and lamp.

Woo hoo!! Yay for Amazon! Glad you ended up going for the t5; Please post some pics of her as you go and keep us updated :)
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is terrific you went ahead & ordered the Reptisun 10 T5 tube, she will really love it
& it should greatly help out for her.
You mentioned you felt that she was a bit stronger in her back legs today?
I'm sure that she will enjoy the dubia you got her. It sounds like she will have a great
variety of foods too!
Hopefully the calcium will help her out. I think also that if this is caught early then hopefully
it will improve drastically. Let us know how she is progressing.

Tracie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, she does look energetic and well adjusted as far as temperament, a real cutie ! :) I agree with the others that hopefully calcium and proper lighting will help her. The manager of the pet store is either lying or seriously lacks proper knowledge about reptiles. I would warn people about that store. Anyway, it would be best to remove those random rocks so she doesn't rub her arms raw or have too difficult a time getting around. You might get a few towels to place in there for a softer flooring. BYW, do you know that she's a female or were you just told that ?
 
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