Beardie wheezing randomly/open & closing mouth and thrashing head around violently

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hello, its been a while since I've visited here; but I've run into a health issue with my beardie Bellamy and I'd like some help trying to identify the problem, if someone here has had a similar illness incident.

For a bit of background: NORMALLY Bellamy is a healthy weight, pretty active (still is, believe it or not despite whats going on), as well as has had very minimal health issues for almost 3-4 years since I remember getting him and has the following:

- 75 watt basking bulb above heat spot (a zoo med brand)
- 50 watt ceramic heat emitter above the lower basking spot
(both basking and emitter are resting on the wire mesh)
- Reptisun 10.0 UVB along the back of the tank held by a strip
- elevated basking locations (I have a large cinderblock in the left back corner that he sometimes pancakes on or partially rests upright along the edge, and a halfed-log hide south of the cinderblock that he rests in and uses as a lower basking area)
- 120 gallon wide exo terra tank
- ceramic tile substrate
- cool side of the tank is around 80-85 degrees, hot is around 100-110 (however been considering getting a mercury bulb 100 watt for the basking bulb and taking the emitter out except for winter)
- regular baths (2-3 a week, which he often drinks while getting these)
- poops seem healthy with solid white urate and brown stool, no blood

Diet:
- Calcium w/ D3 dusted Superworms with breeder recommended multivitamin powder
- Repashy Veggie Burger mix once in a while
- ocassional mustard greens/other beardie-safe produce

-- I want to note that Bellamy is a *very* picky eater when it comes to veggies/fruits of any kind, and when I fed him repashy's, thats the only way I could get him to eat the stuff, but he's been snubbing that too as of late. The food always offered in a variety of ways; short of force feeding him (I dont really feel 100% comfortable doing that either) a liquid mixture of this stuff, him eating non-live prey is seldom.

I do realize that it might not be the greatest for him, but believe me that I am doing my best to tease an apetite out of him for these things. I have tried different combinations of varities too.

Current Situation
- I've noticed about two weeks back from now that hes been doing a 'light wheezing' with his mouth agape--initially I figured it was just a thing he was doing while yawning/stretching his beard in the mornings. Over time, I noticed it started to get a little worse. I kept a close eye on it, since beyond that, he seemed fairly healthy-- active, head up high, basking, beyond the ocassional wheeze, havent seen anything abnormal.

- However I did start to notice his appetite decrease a bit over all. It wasn't too substantial at the start, but it was like 5-7 worms (he is an adult beardie) down to 3, and now we're lucky if he takes one after he goes poo. He is offered food once every other day, as he generally wouldnt eat (even when healthy) the next day if he had food the day before.

- I began to notice that in his hind quarters, he started looking thin, so I started to try offering food every day regardless, to no avail. Its slowly gotten worse. We had a vet check up made for this Saturday, HOWEVER, things took a worse turn when I woke up to him yesterday:

- He began to wheeze a with heavier breaths than usual, and kind of gasping/open-closing his mouth and violently thrashing his head around in unison with his tongue out bit, his beard very black and very pale overall, like bone-white.

Emergency Vet Visit

- Deciding that this was FAR from normal now, and honestly scared me half to death, we booked an emergency visit to the ER yesterday night to the only exotic one in our area.

- We had him in a beardie sling to try keeping him as comfortable as we could, and it was like as soon as he got into the car, all the behavior stopped, like he never even had these issues. His scales were fairly normal shade, ocassional black bearding (but he may have just been stressed from the ride)--otherwise he slept all the way there with no issues.

- We're waiting for the vet to see us, and its like nothing was going on at all. He just sat there with his head poking out and being inquisitive to stuff.

The Vet Check
- So they look him over, they tell us it could e signs of stomatitis? But if it is, there doesn't appear to be any redness or anything along the gums, however perhaps we caught it early enough?

- Going by that, they gave him antibiotic, fluids and some pain med injections. They gave us some pain med for us to give orally at home once every 24 hours.

- After administering this, they left im under a ceramic heat emitter for a short time to metabolize the stuff.

Today

- I woke up today with him, and it seems so far that hes not as bad as yesterday when I woke up to the thrashing/etc, but he is still ocassionally wheezing to a much lesser degree while leaning along his basking cinderblock with his head up as normal. Havent tried feeding yet.


But, has anyone had this situation with their beardies? Does it sound like stomatitis? Could it be something else? Im mostly trying to see if it can be identified as ANYTHING else so I might have some suggestions to check for in a follow up vet check up. I will try uploading a video asap.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Wow, he is looking better & sounds like he is feeling better slowly. I completely agree, the head
thrashing isn't a symptom of mouth rot at all. It does sound like he was developing a respiratory
infection & possibly had some type of obstruction or was very congested & couldn't breathe well.
Which antibiotic did they prescribe for him?
Be sure to keep him a little warmer overnight, to help boost his system. Usually around 75-80F is
perfectly fine.

We are pulling for him & I Hope he recovers completely.

Tracie
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hey guys, another update; I've attempted o get a specialist appointment made for the 12th; I am uncertain of that date since I had to leave a message (they were out by 3pm on Friday) so I have to wait to see what they have when they get back to me Monday.

However, Bellamy seems to be doing a HELL of a lot better now than the day I shot the thrashing/wheezing video. No wheezing, interest in live food (however I am continuing to give him a little liquid food to continue bulking him up with that) and basking.

Though I re-checked the basking spot temperature today with the 75w/ceramic emitter; it was coming to about 35c/95 degrees depending on the location it was either a little higher or a little lower.

My question here is this--I have considered getting a mercury vapor bulb (100w) for his basking bulb, but most seem to have UVB with those. The long white tube light (Reptisun 10.0) is also a UVB; does it hurt to have a UVB basking bulb WITH that, or should I try just getting him a regular 100 basking from zoomed/etc? Any other suggestions?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Hey guys, another update; I've attempted o get a specialist appointment made for the 12th; I am uncertain of that date since I had to leave a message (they were out by 3pm on Friday) so I have to wait to see what they have when they get back to me Monday.

However, Bellamy seems to be doing a HELL of a lot better now than the day I shot the thrashing/wheezing video. No wheezing, interest in live food (however I am continuing to give him a little liquid food to continue bulking him up with that) and basking.

Though I re-checked the basking spot temperature today with the 75w/ceramic emitter; it was coming to about 35c/95 degrees depending on the location it was either a little higher or a little lower.

My question here is this--I have considered getting a mercury vapor bulb (100w) for his basking bulb, but most seem to have UVB with those. The long white tube light (Reptisun 10.0) is also a UVB; does it hurt to have a UVB basking bulb WITH that, or should I try just getting him a regular 100 basking from zoomed/etc? Any other suggestions?
Are you using any type of basking bulb? CHE's are good for night time temps or help in getting temps in the tank up to what they need to be -- they are not good basking bulbs they produce NO UVA of which the dragon needs -- MVB's are good for heating not so much UVB - if using a MVB a long tube fixture UVB is recommended - to me they are over kill for heat and expensive and not all MVB's are good there are two on this board recommended -- all you need for your tank is a good solid clear bright white basking bulb like Flukers basking Exo Terra Intense or Arcadia Halogen --- and one good long tube UVB - there are 3 recommended on this board - if you need more help please ask
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Are you using any type of basking bulb? CHE's are good for night time temps or help in getting temps in the tank up to what they need to be -- they are not good basking bulbs they produce NO UVA of which the dragon needs -- MVB's are good for heating not so much UVB - if using a MVB a long tube fixture UVB is recommended - to me they are over kill for heat and expensive and not all MVB's are good there are two on this board recommended -- all you need for your tank is a good solid clear bright white basking bulb like Flukers basking Exo Terra Intense or Arcadia Halogen --- and one good long tube UVB - there are 3 recommended on this board - if you need more help please ask
Thank you for the reply Karrie,

Yes, I currently have a 75w Basking Bulb (Zoo Med Brand) but it appears it might not be strong enough heat wise since it seems to fluctuate between 85-95 degrees; I will try out the arcadia halogen though I think. I *think* I had a 90w PAR38 Halogen Flood Light before, it felt like it got hot enough/spread pretty evenly for the tank, but I had trouble finding them at decent prices.

And thank you for the info on Mercury's--I mostly wasn't one hundred percent sure if it would be harmful to have both an MVB with UVB *and* the UVB tube light at the same time. Like, would the UVB from both lights be too much UVB for him?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Thank you for the reply Karrie,

Yes, I currently have a 75w Basking Bulb (Zoo Med Brand) but it appears it might not be strong enough heat wise since it seems to fluctuate between 85-95 degrees; I will try out the arcadia halogen though I think. I *think* I had a 90w PAR38 Halogen Flood Light before, it felt like it got hot enough/spread pretty evenly for the tank, but I had trouble finding them at decent prices.

And thank you for the info on Mercury's--I mostly wasn't one hundred percent sure if it would be harmful to have both an MVB with UVB *and* the UVB tube light at the same time. Like, would the UVB from both lights be too much UVB for him?
No- mvb's need certain distance and placement to get uvb and sometimes it's not enough- plus the uvb rays expire before your heat will - 6 months they need to be replaced if your relying on them for uvb- heat is good uvb- not so much
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I agree. Using a Mercury vapor bulb with low to moderate UVB levels in combination with a UVB tube bulb is very good because it gives more UVB coverage & exposure.
The combination is usually very good.

Tracie
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hey guys! Just another update--Im proud to say that Bellamy pulled through and is no longer wheezing/coughing, put on a good weight and shows interest in food again.

The specialist we took him to today also said hes looking much, much better, aside from what appears to be a benign abscess on his forearm and to keep an eye on that for any changes.

He did recommend a live prey diet/dubia roaches however over anything veggie/fruit based diet. He mentioned its a bit of a touchy subject within the herp/scientific community, but he's cared for a lot of reptiles in his life and he's seen more mouth rot/stomatitis in beardies that are fed greens/fruits rather than strictly a varied gutfed live prey diet. Beyond that, he did a very thorough exam and he was surprised that hes looking so good. :)
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Hey guys! Just another update--Im proud to say that Bellamy pulled through and is no longer wheezing/coughing, put on a good weight and shows interest in food again.

The specialist we took him to today also said hes looking much, much better, aside from what appears to be a benign abscess on his forearm and to keep an eye on that for any changes.

He did recommend a live prey diet/dubia roaches however over anything veggie/fruit based diet. He mentioned its a bit of a touchy subject within the herp/scientific community, but he's cared for a lot of reptiles in his life and he's seen more mouth rot/stomatitis in beardies that are fed greens/fruits rather than strictly a varied gutfed live prey diet. Beyond that, he did a very thorough exam and he was surprised that hes looking so good. :)
Dragons are vegetarian by nature protein should be fed 2-3 times per week and fruit occasionally - I disagree w/ your vet- too many dubias can cause gout- too much uric acid -- it's good he is doing better
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
I think Ill just continue what I've done for him for years; overall it seems like thats been doing good for him, except for the R.I. but I really do think it was a fluke incident, since he's rarely had any kind of medical issues outside of a scratched eye and the R.I. recently which he's both recovered very well from--thank you guys for the love and support for my best buddy <3
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is Bellamy doing today? It sounds like he has really improved now. It is very possible that the
incident was a fluke. He might of choked on something, that does happen. At least he ended up not
having a respiratory infection or pneumonia, etc.
How is the abscess on his forearm looking?

Tracie
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

How is Bellamy doing today? It sounds like he has really improved now. It is very possible that the
incident was a fluke. He might of choked on something, that does happen. At least he ended up not
having a respiratory infection or pneumonia, etc.
How is the abscess on his forearm looking?

Tracie
He did have a respiratory infection for sure--I'm thinking perhaps he may have accidentally taken too big of a drink of water and it caused it (I do watch him while he is in the bath and he only has water up to his forearms), or a prey item may have lodged itself somewhere and caused it--not really sure how plausible that a lodged prey item could cause a respiratory infection, but--as soon as he got the one antibiotic shot from the ER, he began to slowly improve over time. It was slow, but he certainly was showing signs. Less coughing until no coughing/wheezing, and the night he got the antibiotic, he stopped thrashing the next day. Its kind of amazing how quickly he bounced back. I kind of wish I had that kind of bounce-back power. :)

The abscess is looking the very same as it did the day that I brought him in to the ER (no redness, just a little bit of a bump there--the scales aren't discolored or mottled); so the specialist said to just keep an eye on it and if it seems to change, give him a call. The ER doctor (who wasn't a specialist) was thinking it was MDB, but the specialist I brought him to yesterday said he looks very good, better than most of 8 years he's seen. His teeth were in great condition, no gum lining issues, none of that. He also checked out his limbs, and he was very certain there was no MDB present. It would be very odd if there was, because I dust the prey items, as well as have a UVB tube light for him (and replace it every 3-6 months).
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am happy to hear that Bellamy did recover so quickly, so he must feel a lot better now. They seem
to be prone to respiratory issues, for some reason. Bacteria could build up in the respiratory tract if
a food item got lodged in the throat area. Perhaps he just took in water the wrong way which is the
most common cause of these problems.
Have you tried silver gel or manuka honey or raw unpasteurized honey on the forearm issue?
That's good news he doesn't seem to have any metabolic bone issues, either.

Tracie
 

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Does this look like a healthy beardie
LarryTheLizard wrote on ForLeonard!'s profile.
Aww your profile picture is precious ❤️‍🩹
Hey! I'm planning on ordering a 4x2x2 for my next beardie but I'm worried about lighting. I have a UVA and a UVB but they are small (the UVA just being a bulb and the UVB being 12 ish inches?) My house is drafty so I need a strong light that puts off quite a good amount of heat, any suggestions?
cookie event at my library today, quite fun! Made some bracelets for my comrades too, to give them at church in the morning. Got a busy day tomorrow even though I’m off work… i go back on tuesday so atleast I’ll have 2 days off to rewind….then back to hell lol
The head tilt tho! Aaaahhh

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