Beardie wheezing randomly/open & closing mouth and thrashing head around violently

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hello, its been a while since I've visited here; but I've run into a health issue with my beardie Bellamy and I'd like some help trying to identify the problem, if someone here has had a similar illness incident.

For a bit of background: NORMALLY Bellamy is a healthy weight, pretty active (still is, believe it or not despite whats going on), as well as has had very minimal health issues for almost 3-4 years since I remember getting him and has the following:

- 75 watt basking bulb above heat spot (a zoo med brand)
- 50 watt ceramic heat emitter above the lower basking spot
(both basking and emitter are resting on the wire mesh)
- Reptisun 10.0 UVB along the back of the tank held by a strip
- elevated basking locations (I have a large cinderblock in the left back corner that he sometimes pancakes on or partially rests upright along the edge, and a halfed-log hide south of the cinderblock that he rests in and uses as a lower basking area)
- 120 gallon wide exo terra tank
- ceramic tile substrate
- cool side of the tank is around 80-85 degrees, hot is around 100-110 (however been considering getting a mercury bulb 100 watt for the basking bulb and taking the emitter out except for winter)
- regular baths (2-3 a week, which he often drinks while getting these)
- poops seem healthy with solid white urate and brown stool, no blood

Diet:
- Calcium w/ D3 dusted Superworms with breeder recommended multivitamin powder
- Repashy Veggie Burger mix once in a while
- ocassional mustard greens/other beardie-safe produce

-- I want to note that Bellamy is a *very* picky eater when it comes to veggies/fruits of any kind, and when I fed him repashy's, thats the only way I could get him to eat the stuff, but he's been snubbing that too as of late. The food always offered in a variety of ways; short of force feeding him (I dont really feel 100% comfortable doing that either) a liquid mixture of this stuff, him eating non-live prey is seldom.

I do realize that it might not be the greatest for him, but believe me that I am doing my best to tease an apetite out of him for these things. I have tried different combinations of varities too.

Current Situation
- I've noticed about two weeks back from now that hes been doing a 'light wheezing' with his mouth agape--initially I figured it was just a thing he was doing while yawning/stretching his beard in the mornings. Over time, I noticed it started to get a little worse. I kept a close eye on it, since beyond that, he seemed fairly healthy-- active, head up high, basking, beyond the ocassional wheeze, havent seen anything abnormal.

- However I did start to notice his appetite decrease a bit over all. It wasn't too substantial at the start, but it was like 5-7 worms (he is an adult beardie) down to 3, and now we're lucky if he takes one after he goes poo. He is offered food once every other day, as he generally wouldnt eat (even when healthy) the next day if he had food the day before.

- I began to notice that in his hind quarters, he started looking thin, so I started to try offering food every day regardless, to no avail. Its slowly gotten worse. We had a vet check up made for this Saturday, HOWEVER, things took a worse turn when I woke up to him yesterday:

- He began to wheeze a with heavier breaths than usual, and kind of gasping/open-closing his mouth and violently thrashing his head around in unison with his tongue out bit, his beard very black and very pale overall, like bone-white.

Emergency Vet Visit

- Deciding that this was FAR from normal now, and honestly scared me half to death, we booked an emergency visit to the ER yesterday night to the only exotic one in our area.

- We had him in a beardie sling to try keeping him as comfortable as we could, and it was like as soon as he got into the car, all the behavior stopped, like he never even had these issues. His scales were fairly normal shade, ocassional black bearding (but he may have just been stressed from the ride)--otherwise he slept all the way there with no issues.

- We're waiting for the vet to see us, and its like nothing was going on at all. He just sat there with his head poking out and being inquisitive to stuff.

The Vet Check
- So they look him over, they tell us it could e signs of stomatitis? But if it is, there doesn't appear to be any redness or anything along the gums, however perhaps we caught it early enough?

- Going by that, they gave him antibiotic, fluids and some pain med injections. They gave us some pain med for us to give orally at home once every 24 hours.

- After administering this, they left im under a ceramic heat emitter for a short time to metabolize the stuff.

Today

- I woke up today with him, and it seems so far that hes not as bad as yesterday when I woke up to the thrashing/etc, but he is still ocassionally wheezing to a much lesser degree while leaning along his basking cinderblock with his head up as normal. Havent tried feeding yet.


But, has anyone had this situation with their beardies? Does it sound like stomatitis? Could it be something else? Im mostly trying to see if it can be identified as ANYTHING else so I might have some suggestions to check for in a follow up vet check up. I will try uploading a video asap.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
To me this looks like either there is somewhat in the throat or mouth getting stuck (or causes the sensation it would be) and he's trying to get this away (swallowing, chewing, shaking) or epileptic seizure.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Poor Bellamy, he's really struggling and I know this is very sressful for you and him. :( Your vet does not know much about reptiles, this is not stomatitis [ aka mouth rot ] If this was mouth rot you'd see red inflamed gums [ no sign of that ] and a cheeesy/pus like appearance . So with an incorrect diagnosis it would be good to seek out a specialist reptile vet.
It looks like he's trying very hard to vomit, something is either stuck or he may have a mass somewhere. Find a good vet that can do an xray and bloodwork. I'm so sorry this is happening, I wish you the best. Hope for the best but be prepared for something potentially very serious.

BTW can you post pics of the entire enclosure ?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh my that is very distressing indeed, quite upsetting for all involved.
I agree with AHBD, an X-ray & Bloodwork would be definitive & should help with a diagnosis.
I wonder if something is blocking his airway somehow, just not sure.
Your UVB sounds fine, how close to him? You had mentioned it was up on the back wall, hanging,
correct? It probably isn't calcium related, but it's always good to review.
This came on gradually?

Please try to find another vet to get him in for diagnosis. I hope he is going to be ok.

Tracie
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Poor Bellamy, he's really struggling and I know this is very sressful for you and him. :( Your vet does not know much about reptiles, this is not stomatitis [ aka mouth rot ] If this was mouth rot you'd see red inflamed gums [ no sign of that ] and a cheeesy/pus like appearance . So with an incorrect diagnosis it would be good to seek out a specialist reptile vet.
It looks like he's trying very hard to vomit, something is either stuck or he may have a mass somewhere. Find a good vet that can do an xray and bloodwork. I'm so sorry this is happening, I wish you the best. Hope for the best but be prepared for something potentially very serious.

BTW can you post pics of the entire enclosure ?
Thank you, I wasnt one hundred percent sure about it being mouth rot myself honestly. She just gave me a bunch of papers to read up on things about generic care (which was appreciated but a lot of this stuff I do know cause I've had him for quite a few years now--about 2018 in May, and he was about an adult I believe). He was going strong for quite a few years now, so not quite sure what might be going on.

Everyone else whos seen the video seems to think (including myself) he could have something lodged down there. I may push to get an xray and bloodwork done for sure.

Apologies for the bad pic/messiness around it, I took it with a flash since he's sleeping; there's a second tank that houses my Gargoyle Gecko.
 

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PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my that is very distressing indeed, quite upsetting for all involved.
I agree with AHBD, an X-ray & Bloodwork would be definitive & should help with a diagnosis.
I wonder if something is blocking his airway somehow, just not sure.
Your UVB sounds fine, how close to him? You had mentioned it was up on the back wall, hanging,
correct? It probably isn't calcium related, but it's always good to review.
This came on gradually?

Please try to find another vet to get him in for diagnosis. I hope he is going to be ok.

Tracie
Hopefully the image I attached helps to see! I can attempt a better pic when the lights come on later. He has 12 hours day, 10 hours night (for reference).

I was recommended to a specialist not too far from me, so we're going to see about getting him there soon; he seems to be okay with some of the vet grade liquid food, so for now we're giving him a little of that just to make sure hes getting enough food in his system. He doesn't seem to be taking any solid foods. The more Im thinking of it, the more I feel like it could be a partial obstruction. Which pains me to think about, since it would require going under anesthesia to remove I'd assume?

And yes--it seemed very gradual. He was often VERY healthy, and did see a vet doc for an eye scratch wound that got infected about just a year ago, who said he seemed well cared for, to give an idea of how fast this happened. I attached a pic of him when he was healthier, to give a comparison.
 

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PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Hey guys, small update for this morning/afternoon; he woke up, basking and seems like... mostly normal except for denying solid foods still. I will try to give him a little more of the vet-grade liquid food a little later. He took some pretty well last night (kinda like he WAS hungry, just not comfortable with solid food yet).

So far I've been laying in bed just to monitor him, and doesnt seem to be wheezing even a little bit so far. Yesterday he was wheezing to a much lesser amount than the video in my second OP post. Perhaps it might have been early stage mouth rot? I dont have any experience with that kind of illness (from how its normally described) so I dont know. But it seems like the antibiotics he got might be working on something.

The images attached is him today as of moments ago, and full enclosure.
 

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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
That's some good news ! It culd be that he has an R.I. that was causing his coughing and so far the fluids + antibiotics have helped him out . Hope to hear more progress going forward. BTW how are you getting his temps ? I see that his tank is more like a 50-60 rather than a 120 so I'm wondering if he gets too hot in there.
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
That's some good news ! It culd be that he has an R.I. that was causing his coughing and so far the fluids + antibiotics have helped him out . Hope to hear more progress going forward. BTW how are you getting his temps ? I see that his tank is more like a 50-60 rather than a 120 so I'm wondering if he gets too hot in there.
Apologies for my ignorance, what is an "R.I."? Never heard that abbreviation before. ^^;

As for temps, I have a pointer temp pen as well as an attached battery operated thermometer, but Im honestly considering getting a full blown temperature gun; is there any that you might recommend? I'm U.S. and prefer farenheit if thats an option.

As for the actual temps, Ive been getting around 100-105 farenheit for his heat spot and 75-80 in his cool side; I think the picture might make the tank look a little smaller than it is, but I def. made sure he has some zones for hot/warm/cool; he actually went to thermo regulate in the cool area after he basked for a little, I *think* he might be okay in that area; I was thinking of going to a 100w Mercury basking bulb but I think that'd most def. be too hot for the tank size. Hes basking again now.

But im defnitely seeing a vast improvememt in him from the day he went to the vet and now--just crossing toes and fingers it goes up from here.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh, an R.I means respiratory infection. That's much more logical than mouth rot. No dragon with mouth rot coughs, thrashes their head in distress as your dragon did. You can Google it and see from many sources what it looks like and what the symptoms are. Thannkfully the antibiotics are helping with the R.I but there still may be remaining problems, the thrashing about possibly dislodged something, maybe even some phlegm or mucous or a foreign object . But this is a case of so far, so good but not mouth rot.
 

PoisonedPaint

Member
Original Poster
Oh, an R.I means respiratory infection. That's much more logical than mouth rot. No dragon with mouth rot coughs, thrashes their head in distress as your dragon did. You can Google it and see from many sources what it looks like and what the symptoms are. Thannkfully the antibiotics are helping with the R.I but there still may be remaining problems, the thrashing about possibly dislodged something, maybe even some phlegm or mucous or a foreign object . But this is a case of so far, so good but not mouth rot.
Oh! I see, thank you for the explanation. And yeah, I still intend to get him a thorough check up with the specialist for sure. I know when issues happen with these guys it seems to get them down bad quick :(

Im almost certain its an R.I., it seemed like he was swallowing mucus when he was wheezing (not anymore as of this post) cause it sounded rattly, kinda when humans have a bad chest cold.
 

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