Beardie Fear/Anxiety/Stress, Grimace Scale

zaboomafoo

Hatchling Member
Hi all, this might be a bit of an unconventional question so I apologize if this isn't the right forum for it.

I'm currently a veterinary technician student, and something I've encountered so far in my education is a lack of information about our reptile friends. In many of my classes, we've discussed the "Fear/Anxiety/Stress" scale- or "FAS". This is a technique used to evaluate an animal's body language (usually in the context of a vet visit). We have FAS scales for cats and dogs, but not other animals.

We've also learned about "grimace scales", which are a way to evaluate pain based on facial expressions of animals. The grimace scales include a few more animals, like rodents and rabbits, but it's still hard to find information about evaluating pain and stress in our reptile friends.

I'm a beardie lover, and even though they can't exactly make facial expressions the same way a mammal does, I know how expressive they can be. This is where you all come in! I would love to pick all of your brains for ideas of what sort of body language I could highlight in an FAS or grimace scale for bearded dragons. I have some obvious ideas bouncing around my head such as beards changing color, closing eyes as a stress response, etc... but I'd love to know what sort of patterns you all have noticed in your own dragons, especially if you've ever had the unfortunate experience of seeing them in pain or stress. I'll include some examples of existing FAS and grimace scales to give you all an idea of what I'm talking about. I really like the idea of putting together something like this for our beardie friends as a resource for both veterinary professionals and bearded dragon owners, to help make sure they get speedier and more accurate care and pain management.

Thanks for anyone who's read this far and thanks in advance for any thoughts you have to share!
KC

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MollyM

Member
Beardie name(s)
Dr. James Wilson
That is sooo interesting !! As a new beardie owner I am still learning, but will post if something comes to mind !
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Thank you very much :) Sadly so often reptiles are considered as having no emotions, but they clearly show and have.
I cannot help much, I think, as my bearded dragon never has experienced pain or intense stress. However, I could add - if you're interested - on e.g.:
- dragon appears to be skeptic
- dragon "lost his nerves" after watching something going on he doesn't like
- dragon decides to flee (from unusual object)
- dragon is irritated during shedding
- dragon for a moment does not like being touched or similar which he normally likes.
 

zaboomafoo

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Thank you very much :) Sadly so often reptiles are considered as having no emotions, but they clearly show and have.
I cannot help much, I think, as my bearded dragon never has experienced pain or intense stress. However, I could add - if you're interested - on e.g.:
- dragon appears to be skeptic
- dragon "lost his nerves" after watching something going on he doesn't like
- dragon decides to flee (from unusual object)
- dragon is irritated during shedding
- dragon for a moment does not like being touched or similar which he normally likes.
Thank you! These are some great ideas. Can you tell me a little more about what you see when they do not like being touched? Is there anything your dragon does in specific that helps you know he is not enjoying being touched?
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
One sign is lowering their boby and especially their head. It looks like they are ducking but not away just low and parallel to the floor. It's a sign of uncertainty.
Black rings on their belly is stress.
Pancaking and turning up sideway with or without gaping is a warning to back off, also uncertainty/low trust.
Refusing to pick up their head, sunken eyes, lethargy all signs of illness and pain.
 

zaboomafoo

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
One sign is lowering their boby and especially their head. It looks like they are ducking but not away just low and parallel to the floor. It's a sign of uncertainty.
Black rings on their belly is stress.
Pancaking and turning up sideway with or without gaping is a warning to back off, also uncertainty/low trust.
Refusing to pick up their head, sunken eyes, lethargy all signs of illness and pain.
Thank you, these are awesome examples- exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. For the two you mentioned that are signals of uncertainty, do you feel like either is more severe/escalated than the other? In your experience, would a bearded dragon start with lowering their body, then step it up to pancaking if the threat doesn't back off? Or the other way around? Or totally separate with no relation?
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Ruby, Sinatra, Zsa Zsa
Thank you, these are awesome examples- exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. For the two you mentioned that are signals of uncertainty, do you feel like either is more severe/escalated than the other? In your experience, would a bearded dragon start with lowering their body, then step it up to pancaking if the threat doesn't back off? Or the other way around? Or totally separate with no relation?
No more like you stated. They'll lower in uncertainty and watch, they will either decide things are ok and return to normal or if approached may flare and pancake. At that point it is bacoming a warning to leave them alone. They may start to hiss at this point also. It's rare that they will actually bite.
 

ChileanTaco

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
Thank you! These are some great ideas. Can you tell me a little more about what you see when they do not like being touched? Is there anything your dragon does in specific that helps you know he is not enjoying being touched?
I agree fully on what xp29 wrote.
To add:

- dragon appears to be skeptic
What xp29 wrote (he called it "uncertain")

- dragon "lost his nerves" after watching something going on he doesn't like
My husband (with whom my dragon didn't bond well at that time) had to do some work in the enclosure (why I didn't do so was because it was more practical my husband did the work - he has longer arms ;)). My dragon Taco watched him from a distance (opposite site of the enclosure). After a while, the dragon flattened its body like when pancaking but even flatter, tilted the flattened body towards my husband and opened his mouth, beard expanded.
Looked to me like Taco was watching what was going on, and finally "had enough".
It was the only instance my dragon ever showed such a behavior. It was exactly what also xp29 describes:
Pancaking and turning up sideway with or without gaping is a warning to back off, also uncertainty/low trust.
you asked:
In your experience, would a bearded dragon start with lowering their body, then step it up to pancaking if the threat doesn't back off?
Taco only did this once, and when he did so, it was extremely sudden and quick. It was for approx. 2 seconds, then back to normal body shape. I think that especially that sudden (!) transformation, not only the transformation of body shape, should surprise the threat to go away. There was no lowering of the body as described by xp29. I was standing nearby so I observed everything. My husband, looking at the other side of the enclosure doing his work, hadn't noticed a thing.

- dragon decides to flee (from unusual object)
Taco on my hand as he run into the kitchen (he is allowed to be on the floor when the kitchen is not used) and now had to go back into his enclosure. Zero problems with doing so. However, on the way back we had to pass the Christmas tree. Taco, on my hand, moved his body away (like in the human expression "eh, what's going on?!" shown comic-style). Then, he suddenly jumped down, really attempting to flee from that thing. (I then recognized that his way into the kitchen was likely okay for him - he walked in that direction on his own - as the Christmas tree, a small one sitting on a piece of furniture was not in his immediate field of view when he was on the floor. When I carried him, however, it was.)

- dragon is irritated during shedding
stress marks, hiding more

- dragon for a moment does not like being touched or similar which he normally likes
Eyes are closed for 1 - 2 seconds. Can also be just the eye on the side of his body that is touched.
This is a reaction to me when he sometimes doesn't like to be pet - he normally likes. (And it's also fine if he sometimes doesn't like.)
We never had the situation I had to touch a body part that probably would hurt.
To add: Same reaction if he does not like more food when hand feeding, or just no food at all. Taco is not wolfing down as many insects as he could get, but when he has enough either goes away, or when he likes to sit at that spot, closes his eyes briefly.
 
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Does this look like a healthy beardie
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Hey! I'm planning on ordering a 4x2x2 for my next beardie but I'm worried about lighting. I have a UVA and a UVB but they are small (the UVA just being a bulb and the UVB being 12 ish inches?) My house is drafty so I need a strong light that puts off quite a good amount of heat, any suggestions?
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