beardie enema

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how is an enema given to a BD? Rainier is at the vet cus he is very round, he hasnt pooped his last meal (which was at least 1 1/2 weeks ago-superworms) even tho i have been soaking him in warm water often and i think he might be going into brumation. and the dr is going to take an xray then call me and if we need to do an enema. i was worried about if an enema might hurt him. :? i heard feeding mineral oil could make him poop but i didnt do that and wanted a vet to take a look at him just in case it was beyond anything i could do at home... hopefully if i can get him to poop they can also check for worms and i can deworm him if he needs it too. im just extremely worried bout him cus i have never had a reptile before so i have never seen one brumate, so im not 100% sure if he is going into brumation or if there is something else going on and i rescued him to give him a better home cus the previous one didnt know what the heck they were doing and refused to research BD care and if anything happened to him after i worked so hard to provide a forever home for him i'd be devastated. :(

if anyone can answer soon i'd greatly appreciate it!!

~DOTM

ps- sorry if someone already has posted the same question somewhere here, i just wanted to make sure i got a sure idea of this subject.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How old is Ranier? How big is he & how many superworms did he have?
Can you post a picture of him?
What type of substrate do you have in the tank? If you feel that he is impacted, yes, you can give SMALL amounts of mineral or olive oil, just a few drops, along with sugar free canned pumpkin or fresh pumpkin, sugar free applesauce & squash babyfood with a bit of water or pedialyte. Use a plastic dropper or a syringe, & give several times per day.
Bathe him in warm water, & start massaging at the armpit all of the way down to the vent, on the right side, gently in a circular motion.
Enemas can be harmful if the vet doesn't know what he is doing. So, ask plenty of questions, & don't give one unless it is absolutely warranted to do so. Let us know what the vet says, & what the x-ray looks like. Also, don't let him dump medication down him without questioning what he is giving him & the amounts he is giving him, as well.

Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
background info:
this past january (when i aquired him) i was told he was 3-4 yrs old so i guess he is approx almost 4-5 now. he is approx 12 " from nose to tail stump (due to a to him and another male fighting over a female in his 1st home i believe from what i was told and from what i know i believe i am his 3rd home-permanantly) he is a pretty big boy though. he ate almost 40 superworms last feeding (i realize i should be feeding more around 25- 30 at the MOST weekly so im going to cut back on that). for his veggies i had been trying to feed him everything from dandelion greens to turnip/mustard greens, some cactus, occasionally a small amount of grated carrot (didnt want those), i tried making a mush of all that mixed with butternut squash baby food as well he got annoyed with that when i tried to feed it to him and wanted to go back in his tank. so no luck with that veggies mix, and i know he can be kinda picky. i know adult beardies should get around an 80:20 ratio veggies/salad:prey but i have been fighting him on this since i aquired him (he did used to eat more salads, its almost like he goes thru phases). been giving him 30 min. soaks every 2-3 days in nicely warm water, but not too too hot H2O until his water gets luke warm. and no poops since about 2 weeks. i have him on slate flooring (used to be on sand before i got him but i switched it as soon as i was able to upgrade him to a bigger tank along with updrading his crappy lighting to a mvb bulb).

Present info:
okay, now, $231 later he is my happy happy active alert boy again. dr wanted to take two views of xrays to make sure he wasnt impacted and to see how backed up he was. apperantly he is overweight i was told. i think he said he weighed approx. 536 grams? i cant remember the exact amount (and the invoice said his weight from his first exam) i was told i would get a call after the xrays were taken which i didnt. i was upset they just went ahead and treated him when i okayed only the exam and xrays until i knew EXACTLY what was going on (even if i WOULD HAVE spent the 231 dollars to make him better). i was told they "tube fed" him and bathed him in warm water and put him in an "incubator," i think they called it (which i saw him in, it was like an oxygen cage with water on one side) and he pooped a lot after and that his urates were hard which showed dehydration and they saw a lot of chitin in the poop when they broke it apart. and the vet tech that was talking to me told me not to feed meal worms, i told him i do not feed meal worms i feed superworms. and the tech that was showing me the pictures of his poop and urates was like "same thing just a softer shell" and i said i know it has a softer shell but it isnt the same thing. he told me i should feed mostly salads, i said "well i know that but i have been trying to get him to eat them. im not able to order pheonix and butterworms right now, which i wanted to start being able to do soon" i told him "and supers were the easiest prey items to get around here." i think they were trying to tell me that rainier was impacted, but it mainly sounded like they were quizzing me to see if i would say something that would show i was doing things wrong so i admit i was kinda getting annoyed a bit. i know i do the best i possibley can for my animals and will not skimp on their care if i can help it, and rainier being the first reptile i have had,so its kinda trial and learn.
i really couldnt get a good sense of EXACTLY what they DID do only that it helped him though. i was told to give small amounts of critical care 2-3xs a day and after giving the critical care give him a small amount of water in a syringe each time (no more than 1/2- 1 cc each time) until he eats well on his own and to hold off on prey till he starts to eat veggies and salads well. said i could start offering salads right away.
i already realized before his exam that no wonder he doesnt want to eat anything, im stuffing him like a duck with prey items (the superworms) and decided to going to cut way down on those after he felt better and up the veggies (hopefully now that he is cleared out he will be more apt to eat them) and that im going to call them tomorrow and see if i can get a better answer from the doctor on what happened there.

whew! what an ordeal it was! it was worth it but wow! thanks for listening to my long story! and for the reply. and i do appreciate all the advice ive been getting here, its all been so helpful in doing the right thing for my animal.

~DOTM

oh ps- if i cant get a pic loaded of him i can see if i can get the link to his pics on here.
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
rainier is loaded with pinworms and so they want to deworm him. the dr didnt say on the message he gave me HOW loaded he was just that he was loaded and i could pick up dewormer. they gave me panacur to give .1cc one time a day for 7 days. stop for a week then give .1cc one time a day for 7 days then stop for a week then give .1cc one time a day for 7 days. (so every other week for three times) and they also gave me flagyl 250mg/ml to give at the same dosages at the time im deworming him.

i also wanted to get a clearer picture on what was done to him because they told me oh we xrayed him then soaked him and put him in the icubator and tube fed him but i mean, what does all that mean? i wasnt satisfied with that explanation so the receptionist said that she'd have the dr call me. and i also asked next time before they treat him could they call because i was told by the dr that i would get a call and i signed a form okaying only xrays and an exam and under the "other" space i wrote --> please call my cell 1st!! exactly like that. and they never did. i told her i didnt mind spending the money but i would have liked the chance to decide for myself as a pet owner what i wanted or didnt want done on my animal. but oh well.

i fed him some critical care this am and now am going to feed him again and offer some dandelion greens and give him his meds. he's being a really good boy for me, knowing that he doesnt like to be manipulated with too much.

when the dr calls i also wanted to double check what he said his weight was cus now i cant remember if he DID say 536 grams or a larger number. ugh i wish i remembered.

still have to post a pic but that'll have to wait for now till later.

thanks!
~DOTM
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

So that WAS an ordeal, man.
So he really was not impacted but just too "full"?
I agree with the critical care, just a few cc's per day would probably be good for him though. At least they did not dump medication down his throat though that was what I was worried most about. If all they did was tube fed, you are lucky. I realize that it is annoying when they perform things that you did not authorize.
If he had pinworms, then that is fine if you want to go ahead & treat for them as Panacur is not real harsh on the system. Did he dose according to his weight? The .1 sounds pretty good, as it is dosed at 25mg/kg, & I figured it on 536g if that is right on his weight.
As you have mentioned just cut back on his weekly feeders since he is an adult, to 24-30 superworms per week & he will be healthier for it. Eventually, if he is hungry enough he will eat the greens & veggies that you offer him, or he will just go hungry! :D He will learn.
However, I don't agree with giving Flagyl if he does not need it. That is specifically for giardia, ameobas, & flagellates so if those did not come up on the fecal there is no need for that drug. It is fairly harsh on the system.

Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
i forgot to ask the dr about his weight again, darn! but i dunno how he figured that dosing and i know in dogs and cats flagyl can be binding i dont know if it is the same in reptiles, but i dont know why he prescribed flagyl, rgh.. i would think it would be less annoying for the DOCTOR even to explain everything at once so the client doesnt keep calling every 5 mins with questions she forgot to ask or doesnt understand about. he said yesterday they tube fed him but today when he called after i left a message for him he told me that they took him to the back took the xrays and saw how much poop he had and did a few warm soaks and massaged him and he pooped and went into the incubator, heh, (i think maybe that is cus he is a reptile so the incubator will keep him nicely warm?? but i wasnt told why) and said they were ABOUT to do an enema and he pooped. he re-iterated (sp?) to me again about the beardies they had there who lived a long time and never got worms because they were strictly vegetarian. and the pinworms are gotten by feeding mealworms and crickets and i mentioned at least three times i feed neither of those prey but im sure he probaby never got over his last bout of pinworms, and maybe the supers i had may have been infested with them too i dont know (this dr is the owner of the practice but the other dr that saw rainier before and also sees my guinea pigs was away for the week and i trust him more cus he is clearer about things when he talks to me and seems to be very knowlegable in a way that can relate to me about reptiles with me being a first time owner of one)

about flagyl again, no he said only pinworms. im reluctant to use something that isnt needed but if i call the dr i have a feeling i might not get a straight answer as to why he prescribed it. sigh, i dont get why its so hard to just give a simple answer w/o the dr. questioning why i want to know something so he says something in a roundabout answer then i feel like im still stuck, sighhhh... :banghead: i probably will not use it anymore (gave with his 1st deworming today and the first time he was dewormed for pins, the dr that i like only prescribed the panacur so i dont think it will hurt NOT to do the flagyl if there is really no reason to do so.)

lol...
~DOTM

ps- i think they were trying to tell me he was impacted cus he mentioned the chitin was seen in the stool yesterday but i also think he was EXTREMELY full both with pins and poop.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is Ranier doing today?
Well, sometimes, Flagyl is used as an appetite stimulant, but if he does not have any of those conditions I spoke about I don't think he needs it personally. Also, if he was slightly impacted, it was most likely just due to the higher volume of worms. Plus, worms & parasites harbor in undigested food particles in the GI tract which quickly multiply. That is most likely why his levels were so high.
Once you get his system working more efficiently & cut the number of feeders down, he will do much better.
I do not think there is any reason to give the flagyl, but you can go ahead with the Panacur that is no problem.
Well, I am just glad that they did not administer an anema. Sometimes they can injure them trying to give an enema so that is always the last measure in those situations.
I hope that he is doing better today. Has he had much of an appetite then?

Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
no appetite, i have to "force feed" the critical care, and he only tolerates so much of that and i wasnt supposed to give him too much of that anyways. i am not able to syringe water into him after he eats so i put extra water into the critical care and see if i can give a tad extra of that instead of do the small amount of critical care and h2o seperately. i saoked him today for a 1/2 hr in warm water. no poop, he hasnt pooped since he pooped at the vet. sigh.. i have been doing 2-3 feedings a day of about 1 1/2 cc and do his panacur one time a day. he IS extremely bloated looking poor guy...:(

~DOTM
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh poor Ranier. He is bloated from the syringe feeding? You can lay off a little bit if you would like to since he has not pooped. You don't want him to be too uncomfortable. You could add a bit of mineral or olive oil (a couple of drops only) to his mixture & that may help him out alot.
The extra water will help him out as well. Keep trying with him, & I hope that he is feeling better soon.

Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
i dunno if its from the worms or the feedings he's bloated from, although id feel bloated if i wad worms and was being fed but not pooping it out either :wink: ill try a couple of drops of mineral oil. those worms are having a party in him and dont want to come out :p

~DOTM
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I hope that his system starts moving along more quickly for him. If he is that bloated he can't be that comfortable, poor guy.
Let me know how he is doing & maybe the mineral oil will help him.

Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
gave .1 cc olive oil at around 7:10 this morning so far no poop and it is 9:57 pm now, sigh...(couldnt find the mineral oil) i dewormed him, but didnt feed him today to give him a break, he LOOKS stuffed.

will keep posted on progress..

~DOTM
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh poor boy he still hasn't gone to the bathroom? I hope he does go soon, he is probably really bloated huh? How did the deworming go then?
Definitely keep me posted on him, I hope he is feeling better. :D


Tracie
 

DragonoftheMountain

Member
Original Poster
i am extremely frustrated and anxious. rainier hast pooped since he pooped at the vets. i've been deworming him with the panacur and occasionally with the flagyl in case. ive given him olive oil twice in the past week. given him 3 warm baths in the past week, and been syringing water into his mouth occasionally and tried to syringe feed him critical care yesterday. he looks like he is getting kinda lethagic again and those worms arent coming out of him because he isnt pooping! god knows ive been stuffing him with everything! why wont he poop.. sigh. :? i think im going to have to call the vet again tomorro :(

~DOTM
 

Denise Bushnell (RIP)

Juvie Member
Retired Moderator
Before calling his vet again, I have a little trick that you can try. Give him several drops of Mineral or Olive Oil first thing in the morning, just as you have been, Then around lunchtime, feed him some very warm (not hot) applesauce. Give him as much as he will willingly take for you at one sitting. Once he's finished, put him in a very warm bath for about 30 minutes, preferably something deep enough so that you can encourage him to swim. Make sure the water stays very warm for the entire time that he's in there, even if you have to change it a couple of times. By the end of that 30 minute period, I'll be very surprised if you don't get a bowel movement out of him! If you don't, then I would definitely call the vet again.

My youngest male, Charlie, was so loaded with hookworms and pinworms, when
I first bought him, as a young juvenile,that he nearly died from bleeding internally from the hookworms, but I managed to get him through it, even though the vet didn't think that he was going to survive.

Today he's a reasonably healthy 4 year old, although he does have problems going to the bathroom, due to all the scar tissue in his intestines from the damage done by the hookworms. He's never pooped in his tank, on his own, since I've had him. The only way that he can have a bowel movement is if he's in reasonably hot water, which seems to help him to go. He also has bouts of constipation now and then, because of his digestive problems, and the warm applesauce, followed by an extremely warm bath, during which I encourage him to swim, has never failed to make him go. If I were you, I would give that a try before calling the vet. There's no point in loading him up with more medication, if you can get him to go naturally, on his own!

Let me know if it works for him!
 
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