Beardie eggs look like going to pip inderneath?

[Mumofmanyrescues]

So my beardie eggs are due to hatch any day. We are on day 63. I don’t breed beardies but had for 15 years lots of rescues x this is possibly a parthenogenesis clutch as haven’t been round a male. So I can see droplets on one egg (sweating) and stress marks on a few. However I have noticed some have stress marks on the underneath the egg. Where the egg starts to look see through. I’m wondering are they ok if they pip the egg from
Underneath? I don’t want them to die.

 

[ChileanTaco]

As far as I know, in bearded dragons no parthenogenesis is possible. (In some reptiles, it is.)
Means: I'm sorry, these eggs aren't fertile.
If somebody has different valid information, and indeed parthenogenesis is possible in bearded dragons, please update on this.

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

I’m very knowledgeable about beardies . So yes I know there is no recorded evidence but there is lots and lots of cases . I have researched for a while. That’s why I said possibility.
They are fertile. They have fully formed babies moving inside. I have read for years on beardies, however there is nothing on the internet about what would happen if pip underneath x

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

All reptiles technically have the possibility of parthenogenesis, however we have only documented certain species. There are cases out there but very very rare.

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

As far as I know, in bearded dragons no parthenogenesis is possible. (In some reptiles, it is.)
Means: I'm sorry, these eggs aren't fertile.
If somebody has different valid information, and indeed parthenogenesis is possible in bearded dragons, please update on this.

thank you for your reply though xxx

 

[ChileanTaco]

I'm really interested in the outcome! (Especially whether they are healthy.)

So yes I know there is no recorded evidence but there is lots and lots of cases . I have researched for a while. That’s why I said possibility.

Do you have anything on this that you can share, e.g. threads from this or another forum/ website showing the development of the eggs, or even a scientific paper, where they also can rule out sperm was stored (they can do so for up to a year), e.g. by knowing there has never been a male around?
That's not as I would not believe you, but out of my interest in reptiles and in animals generally (as I would say I also have a solid background in reptiles, and always like to extend my knowledge to correct tings I might know wrong).
Are you planning on documenting this, to have some recorded evidence? I think this would be valuable.

 

[xp29]

Was the mother a rescue? They can store sperm for a year or so, are you 100% certain she wasn't woth a male before you received her?
Also I'm not saying your wrong, but I've never heard of it and am curious.

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

I'm really interested in the outcome! (Especially whether they are healthy.)

Do you have anything on this that you can share, e.g. threads from this or another forum/ website showing the development of the eggs, or even a scientific paper, where they also can rule out sperm was stored (they can do so for up to a year), e.g. by knowing there has never been a male around?
That's not as I would not believe you, but out of my interest in reptiles and in animals generally (as I would say I also have a solid background in reptiles, and always like to extend my knowledge to correct tings I might know wrong).
Are you planning on documenting this, to have some recorded evidence? I think this would be valuable.

So there is no scientific research done, that’s what I’m saying . However after digging for hours on the internet I found odd cases off breeders saying that they have had a female who had not been round a male in over 4 years and not round others. They incubated for the fun of it as looked fertile and then they went full term but nothing hatched. When he opened them there were fully formed beardies inside. Another one showed similiar situation however had 2 babies hatch and are now adults.
The ones that didn’t survive was adament not been near another beardie in over 4 years. He had spoke to his vet as dna testing was expensive and his vet asked him to bring the baby in and he would do testing on it. Unfortunately there was no more discussion after that.

My girl has been on her own all her life before coming to me a year and half a go. I have a male but he is in a separate tank and I do not let them out together . Unless he’s been watching mission impossible and turned into Ethan beardie hawk, I have no idea how he would have got to her.

So it was a very low fertile clutch but again it was her first clutch. I will see if they look like copies of mum .
My male looks totally oppoyof my female so that shouldn’t be hard. If look like copies of mum, I will get tests done.

The eggs are getting patches on now where the egg looks like it’s going thin and see through. You can see a big dark patch behind one. I’ll add a picture but they have vermiculite stuck to some of them . Xx

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

These were babies just about 3 weeks ago. Poss twins in one.

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

This egg is huge

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

This was the other day with first signs of sweating and stress marks. A lot of the eggs now have starts of stress marks. There are 7

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

This is today as the stress marks have gone more.
Very very careful when I took out to check . I keep exactly still. I’m trying to get photos etc through your process just in case .

 

[ChileanTaco]

Looks for sure like some embryo developing. I have found papers generally on "facultative parthenogenesis" in reptiles and birds who normally show no parthenogenesis (despite not mentioning bearded dragons). Development of embryos can even start in common fowl like quail and turkeys (!). But it was claimed it's an meiose error and no viable hatchlings emerge, even dying early in the egg.
So very interested in what happens to yours, and if they are alive, what will genetic testing bring.

 

[Mumofmanyrescues]

Looks for sure like some embryo developing. I have found papers generally on "facultative parthenogenesis" in reptiles and birds who normally show no parthenogenesis (despite not mentioning bearded dragons). Development of embryos can even start in common fowl like quail and turkeys (!). But it was claimed it's an meiose error and no viable hatchlings emerge, even dying early in the egg.
So very interested in what happens to yours, and if they are alive, what will genetic testing bring.

Oh wow that is interesting. I love reading up. Honestly I even was reading on what the beardies will look like in the eggs every week on this chart which was from a research paper. I’ll add it on. I have adhd, so I obsess read a lot lol. I mean it’s amazing that they can still form and develop, even though they didn’t survive. I believe studying with reptiles, we as a human race, have only just scratched the surface. I remember when they said reptiles don’t dream. At this point my first bearded dragon who was like my son and he was with me all the time, I would watch him when he slept. It was obvious he dreamed, I would see eye movement and he would even bob on his sleep (he was a deep sleeper too). About a year later after I was telling my mum, trust me pabs (pablo) dreams, a study came out to say they do dream. X

 

[ChileanTaco]

Oh wow that is interesting. I love reading up.

Here, for example:

Parthenogenesis in birds: a review

Parthenogenesis or ‘virgin birth’ is embryonic development in unfertilized eggs. It is a routine means of reproduction in many invertebrates. However, even though parthenogenesis occurs naturally in even more advanced vertebrates, like birds, it is mostly abortive in nature. In fact, multiple...

rep.bioscientifica.com

I have adhd, so I obsess read a lot lol.

I'm on the autism spectrum Reading a lot, too, not surprisingly.

I mean it’s amazing that they can still form and develop, even though they didn’t survive.

I could imagine the defects being similar to severe genetic defects in mammals (including humans).
In the egg, it still works for a while, but independently (e.g.: breathing, digesting, regulating body temperature...), not.