Bearded dragon flipping over / Black beard

Alucas

Member
Sorry for the long post!
This poor lizard 🥺 💔
Waiting to hear back on his test results for ADV, but I’m pretty sure it will pop up positive due to these symptoms. Not sure what else he could have so suddenly.
Background: I picked him up at an expo for $40 as he was in pretty rough shape & I felt horrible for him. Some of his limbs were swollen, so I assumed gout but both test results showed negative for gout (biopsy and blood test). He was positive for a bacterial infection, that the vet thinks is the cause of the swollen limbs. The vet also gave him a dewormer at our first visit. He prescribed him Fortaz (10 doses, given every three days) he had taken 7 doses until Christmas Day 12/26/24 where he took a turn for the worst.
That morning he was completely black beard, lethargic, barely moving/eating, fat pads starting to sink in, eyes starting to sink in, mouth gaping more than usual. I checked on the cam and saw he had flipped himself. He continues to flip himself anywhere from 4-6 times a day. He’s been able to flip himself back the times I wasn’t aware that he did it. I’ve been trying to keep such a close eye on him as best I can. I removed everything from his enclosure because it was all a flipping hazard. ⚠️
I brought him back to the vet & I was told to continue his current meds as well as give him Ponazuril once a day. (Fecal tested positive for pinworm & coccidia) We retested his kidney levels again and they came back normal like before. As days go on his fat pads get worse and worse 🥺.
I’ve been giving him a warm, shallow Pedialyte bath 3-4x a day (which he does drink out of) along with critical care & organic carrot baby food w/ Pedialyte, and a dash of repashy.
From what I noticed, anything that startles him will cause him to flip (like the lights turning on in the AM , if his ambient air gets to 90°F he usually flips, staying on the hot side too long.) I’ve been keeping his ambient temps on the warm side max 85°F so it doesn’t exceed anything hotter;his body can’t seem to tolerate it.. It’s almost like he doesn’t know to move away/regulate his temperature anymore so he gets overheated maybe.
Not sure if anybody else has dealt with something similar, but this is so sad to watch. I’m constantly checking in on his camera to make sure he’s not stuck on his back. This all happened so quick & suddenly. He had none of these symptoms when I first brought him to the vet.
- Do u think the Fortaz shots are too much on his body, which caused him to decline 3 weeks later (7 doses in)? (My vet doesn’t think so)
-The vet said his uric acid levels aren’t that high & He saw no crystals in the biopsy. How high does the uric acid level have to be to be gout? Could he have misdiagnosed him for A bacterial infection instead?
Beardie info:
Age: unknown maybe 2yr old
Uvb: Arcadia 24watt T5 12% mounted inside 16” away. (Bulb checked w solar meter 6.5r.)
Heat: white basking bulb
Lights on 12hr/off 12hr
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1437.jpeg
    IMG_1437.jpeg
    270.8 KB · Views: 46
  • IMG_1441.jpeg
    IMG_1441.jpeg
    566.6 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_1440.jpeg
    IMG_1440.jpeg
    324.8 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_1439.jpeg
    IMG_1439.jpeg
    307.6 KB · Views: 37
  • IMG_1427.jpeg
    IMG_1427.jpeg
    258.7 KB · Views: 36
  • IMG_1471.jpeg
    IMG_1471.jpeg
    174.3 KB · Views: 40

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Aw, poor guy I really feel for him and for you !! It could be gout or some extreme form of arthritis possibly. When you bought him you say he was in rough shape, was he this thin ? Did he already have the swollen limb ? Does he limp on that very swollen one ? If he was not flipping before the vet visit then I would be almost CERTAIN that this has been caused by the parasite meds. and the fortaz. Don't take him back there, give him a slight break from any treatment and look for a new, more experienced vet.

I will tag one of the mods. here, Drache316 who is a vet tech. and is the most educated about gout on this forum. BTW, reduce the baths but give 1 a day only if he drinks. Use the Repashy or get Oxbow Critical Care for nutrition, leave out the carrots. Blended greens like kale, collards, turnip, arugula and dandelion are far better.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
When I first got him back, November:
-He was thin (Not as thin as right now)
-He would Barely eat bugs (And I’ve tried every type of bug lol)
-He was VERY Thirsty/Dehydrated.
-His fat pads were not sunken in.
-He had the swollen arms/limbs (which I thought was gout)

So I took him to the vet specifically for the swollen arms to figure how to help him. That’s when the vet gave him a dewormer, said he’s underweight, did a Biopsy that didn’t show any crystals, Did a blood test where he said the uric acid levels weren’t “that high”. He determined it was a bacterial infection & put him on the Fortaz Antibiotic shot (Given every three days in his bicep; Total of 10 shots)
When I brought him home that day from the vet, He was eating no problem out of nowhere. Eating live bugs daily (Dubai’s/BSFL/Silkworms/mealworms/wax worms ) Since he was eating
Now fast forward 3 weeks (7 doses in on the Fortaz Antibiotic) Christmas morning he went down hill. Not eating, Black beard, Fat pad didn’t look good, Mouth gaping nonstop. Nothing changed in his enclosure. This was all so out of the blue. (That’s what makes me think the Fortaz Antibiotic has something to do with it)
These pics are from November. Before any antibiotics were involved. (already had the swollen limbs prior to antibiotics)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1607.jpeg
    IMG_1607.jpeg
    190.4 KB · Views: 31
  • IMG_1610.jpeg
    IMG_1610.jpeg
    172.2 KB · Views: 27
  • IMG_1609.jpeg
    IMG_1609.jpeg
    228.8 KB · Views: 30
  • IMG_1611.jpeg
    IMG_1611.jpeg
    137.3 KB · Views: 28
Last edited:

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
12/4/24 blood work
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1612.jpeg
    IMG_1612.jpeg
    53.4 KB · Views: 22

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
12/27/24 blood work (2nd time)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1613.jpg
    IMG_1613.jpg
    61.6 KB · Views: 25

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
Here are both invoices too not sure if this might help to show what was done.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1614.jpeg
    IMG_1614.jpeg
    220.9 KB · Views: 23
  • IMG_1615.jpeg
    IMG_1615.jpeg
    176.9 KB · Views: 28

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Aw, poor guy I really feel for him and for you !! It could be gout or some extreme form of arthritis possibly. When you bought him you say he was in rough shape, was he this thin ? Did he already have the swollen limb ? Does he limp on that very swollen one ? If he was not flipping before the vet visit then I would be almost CERTAIN that this has been caused by the parasite meds. and the fortaz. Don't take him back there, give him a slight break from any treatment and look for a new, more experienced vet.

I will tag one of the mods. here, Drache316 who is a vet tech. and is the most educated about gout on this forum. BTW, reduce the baths but give 1 a day only if he drinks. Use the Repashy or get Oxbow Critical Care for nutrition, leave out the carrots. Blended greens like kale, collards, turnip, arugula and dandelion are far better.
He had the swollen limbs already when I took him in, he looked so neglected & thin/dehydrated etc. at the show that I felt Bad for him so I bargain the guy down because of how he looked. ☹️ He didn’t limp or anything. I feel like all his feet/toes look pretty wonky though. He has always wanted to drink a lot of water, from the moment I got him. Now that he’s been sick, he will literally stick his tongue out to tell me.. “hey I want water” (So that’s why I’ve been doing the constant warm shallow unflavored flavored Pedialyte since he drinks it. Sometimes he poops in it, so then I have to change it out. He must be getting dehydrated quickly is my thoughts & I was researching around that it’s good to keep them well hydrated when on antibiotics)
I’ve been giving him 0.5 ml of oxbow critical care + that slurry w/ baby food that I mentioned. I will Blend up some greens & try that instead.
My thoughts are that his flipping is caused by the bacterial med that he was getting (Fortaz). I stopped that. (On another thread in August, there was somebody that was giving their beardie a medicine that I think is the Same to this one. (She called it Ceftazidime) She had the same symptoms of flipping 🤔)

Could the flipping be caused by parasites in his body that we weren’t treating yet? (I got the parasite meds “after” he started flipping; Ponazuril is the parasite med)
I ordered Serrapeptase, it has not come yet. Do you think that’s OK to also give him when it does come?
 

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Oh my, poor little one, I am sorry about his condition.
Can you get a copy of the blood test results, by chance for me to look over. There aren't always uric
acid crystals present with gout initially. Usually that happens with continued high levels. Usually, the uric acid levels that are over
10mg/dl are levels which cause swelling & contribute to uric acid crystallization.
I would take him off of any of the antibiotics immediately. It seems to me that the medication have caused the swelling.
Has he put on weight since you first got him?
As AHBD suggested, try blending up some greens to make some slurries to help with nutrition & with
hydration.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
Videos of him today 1/2/25.
(This is what he’s been doing since 12/25/24 along w flipping usually around 4x a day. When I do pick him up, it’s like he’s frozen in time. His legs are stiff)
** it’s saying, the videos are too large. It won’t let me upload them even if I shorten them.**
 
Last edited:

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Sorry your videos wont upload. I can send my email if you would like to send them directly to me, just so I can see.
It sounds like a combination of calcium issues & probably gout. When they develop gout, that affects calcium uptake & absorption.
When did you order the Serrapeptase & where did you order it from?

Is your vet going to treat him for gout?

Tracie
 

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Sorry your videos wont upload. I can send my email if you would like to send them directly to me, just so I can see.
It sounds like a combination of calcium issues & probably gout. When they develop gout, that affects calcium uptake & absorption.
When did you order the Serrapeptase & where did you order it from?

Is your vet going to treat him for gout?

Tracie
The Serrapeptase I just received in the mail today, from Bug-de-lite.
-Based off of that bloodwork what can you tell?
-My vet said the gout level wasn’t very high, what should I tell him?
-How is gout usually treated? (Anything I can Suggest to the vet)
(From what I’ve researched on gout, It’s not curable, but manageable depending on the case.. And that they usually have to be on meds for the rest of their life, Along with a diet change of less protein. Correct me if I’m wrong, I’ve been trying to figure this all out)
-He is not currently treating him for gout at the moment. He’s only getting the parasite liquid med for pinworm/coccidia (21 days). Friday 1/3/25 will be a week he’s been on it.
I appreciate all your help!!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Great that you received your Serrapeptase. That would be from me. :)
The Uric acid counts which are 12mg/dl are higher than what they should be. At those levels, the crystal
build up will likely start & it can begin causing health issues. The ideal levels really should only be around
3-4mg/dl, max.
You are correct. Most of the time, if they have primary visceral gout, they will likely have to be on meds,
for life for health maintenance. If caught & treated early, they can do very well. If your vet isn't concerned
or wont give gout meds, let me know.
You can be proactive & get some black or tart cherry juice extract which can help start to lower the levels,
naturally.
Is he done with the Fortaz medication? Just how high were his pinworm & coccidia levels? That seems
like a long time for daily treatment for them though.
When do you get his Adeno results back?

Tracie
 

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Great that you received your Serrapeptase. That would be from me. :)
The Uric acid counts which are 12mg/dl are higher than what they should be. At those levels, the crystal
build up will likely start & it can begin causing health issues. The ideal levels really should only be around
3-4mg/dl, max.
You are correct. Most of the time, if they have primary visceral gout, they will likely have to be on meds,
for life for health maintenance. If caught & treated early, they can do very well. If your vet isn't concerned
or wont give gout meds, let me know.
You can be proactive & get some black or tart cherry juice extract which can help start to lower the levels,
naturally.
Is he done with the Fortaz medication? Just how high were his pinworm & coccidia levels? That seems
like a long time for daily treatment for them though.
When do you get his Adeno results back?

Tracie
I had a feeling it was from you!! lol Glad I could Support your business. 🙂
Thank you for explaining the Uric Acid levels & gout in more detail.
I will definitely ask him if we can treat for gout (is there a specific med that’s usually prescribed? Incase he mentions something different, I want to be prepared to bring it to his attention)
I did order this black cherry (pic attached) a few weeks ago because I was convinced he had gout, so I have this on hand already. I have Not given it to him yet, I’m glad u mentioned this.
12/22 he last got a Fortaz shot. I had 2 doses left but on 12/25 when he went downhill I didn’t give the other 2 doses.
I just called over to the vet and he’s out of the office until Monday, but they’re going to send me over the fecal results. I’ll upload them as soon as I get them. Maybe you can interpret them because I don’t know what I’m looking at & the receptionist didn’t know how to read them either lol.
I should hear back on the ADV test in a week or two.
Thank you again for your help & knowledge.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1684.jpeg
    IMG_1684.jpeg
    153.8 KB · Views: 20

Alucas

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Great that you received your Serrapeptase. That would be from me. :)
The Uric acid counts which are 12mg/dl are higher than what they should be. At those levels, the crystal
build up will likely start & it can begin causing health issues. The ideal levels really should only be around
3-4mg/dl, max.
You are correct. Most of the time, if they have primary visceral gout, they will likely have to be on meds,
for life for health maintenance. If caught & treated early, they can do very well. If your vet isn't concerned
or wont give gout meds, let me know.
You can be proactive & get some black or tart cherry juice extract which can help start to lower the levels,
naturally.
Is he done with the Fortaz medication? Just how high were his pinworm & coccidia levels? That seems
like a long time for daily treatment for them though.
When do you get his Adeno results back?

Tracie
He took a turn for the worst today, almost looked like he was choking on his tongue & couldn’t breathe. He kept biting the tip of his tongue so it’s bleeding a little bit. He’s the Blackest he’s ever been & getting darker by the minute. Eyes are completely unresponsive as well.
He is practically unresponsive & limp. I called 5 exotic vet places & no one will take him in to be euthanized because they are either unstaffed or overwhelmed for the day w appt. So I’m bringing him to an emergency vet that will do it for $500 (crazy).
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1698.jpeg
    IMG_1698.jpeg
    198.6 KB · Views: 25

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh no, I'm so sorry. You tried the best you could to help him but there were unseen problems that he couldn't overcome. I know this is devastating for you and my heart goes out to you. :(
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest resources

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Does this look like a healthy beardie
LarryTheLizard wrote on ForLeonard!'s profile.
Aww your profile picture is precious ❤️‍🩹
Hey! I'm planning on ordering a 4x2x2 for my next beardie but I'm worried about lighting. I have a UVA and a UVB but they are small (the UVA just being a bulb and the UVB being 12 ish inches?) My house is drafty so I need a strong light that puts off quite a good amount of heat, any suggestions?
cookie event at my library today, quite fun! Made some bracelets for my comrades too, to give them at church in the morning. Got a busy day tomorrow even though I’m off work… i go back on tuesday so atleast I’ll have 2 days off to rewind….then back to hell lol

Forum statistics

Threads
157,599
Messages
1,276,381
Members
76,969
Latest member
charlieoliver
Top Bottom