Baby Beardie Not Eating

[amoondoe]

We got a baby beardie, about 2 month old on November 30th. At first he was eating several small Dubias, twice a day. And a little bit of his greens. In about the last week he has virtually stopped eating and spends nearly all his time on his basking rock. Hot spot ranges from about 103 to 115. Mid cage around 79 and far side around 82. Have 10.0 reptisun @ 24 inches long in 36 in long tank. Basking bulb is a 100 watt soft white incandescent on a dimmer. Second light is a 60 watt soft white incandescent. Added second light to increase temps. Both are eco incandescent from Home Depot. But neither is a coil. Timer set to turn system on an off. Around 7:30 am to 7:30 pm. Any suggestions? Should we take him to vet? Thanks in advance!

 

[CooperDragon]

It's good that he is basking rather than hiding. Do you see signs of a shed coming on? Sometimes their appetite drops during a shed cycle. Can you post some photos of him? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them to your thread using the XIMG button.

 

[EllenD]

In general your husbandry sound okay, try not to let the Basking Spot Surface Temperature to go over 110 degrees at a maximum though, anything higher than that for long periods can cause severe dehydration, and over 115 degrees can be fatal...Also, I'd definitely increase his photoperiod from 12 hours a day to 14, as sometimes less than 14 hours a day of UVB light can not be enough and this can cause issues...

Is your 24" Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube a T8 strength, or a stronger T5HO strength? The reason I'm asking is that the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO tubes come in 16", 22", 34", etc., while the weaker T8 strength come in 18" and 24", However, the 22" T5HO version fits into a 24" fixture, so I couldn't tell which strength you have. If it's the weaker T8 strength and you have it sitting on top of a mesh lid to the tank/Exo Terra, this could very well be the problem, as the mesh blocks at least 40% of the UVB light emitted by the tube, and the T8 tube isn't strong enough to emit adequate UVB light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh lid (the T5HO strength is). Also, the T8 strength must be within at least 6" of your dragon's Basking Platform, while the T5HO must be within at least 11", and the T8 must be replaced once every 6 months at the oldest, while the T5HO only needs replaced once every 12 months. So if you have the T8 UVB tube and it's being obstructed by the mesh lid, you need to poke 4 holes in the mesh and then use either long, plastic Zip Ties, Wire, Twine, String, Shoelaces, etc. to strap the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, and then make sure that his Basking Platform is within at least 6" of the now unobstructed tube. This certainly will and often does cause a loss of appetite, lethargy, and even MBD.

Other than that, can you post some photos of your dragon, his entire enclosure, and lighting?

 

[amoondoe]

It's good that he is basking rather than hiding. Do you see signs of a shed coming on? Sometimes their appetite drops during a shed cycle. Can you post some photos of him? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them to your thread using the XIMG button.

Sorry for the slow response. Took him to vet late last night. She gave him something for deworming/parasites and tested him for Atadenovirus. Still waiting for those results. I didn’t have a sample for them to test for parasites because he hasn’t eaten. I will need to run one to them when he does. She told me to get Repta Boost and use until he starts eating again. He already is much more alert and moving around cage.

Sorry no pic, won’t let me upload from my phone. I will add when I’m at a computer.

 

[amoondoe]

In general your husbandry sound okay, try not to let the Basking Spot Surface Temperature to go over 110 degrees at a maximum though, anything higher than that for long periods can cause severe dehydration, and over 115 degrees can be fatal...Also, I'd definitely increase his photoperiod from 12 hours a day to 14, as sometimes less than 14 hours a day of UVB light can not be enough and this can cause issues...

Is your 24" Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube a T8 strength, or a stronger T5HO strength? The reason I'm asking is that the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO tubes come in 16", 22", 34", etc., while the weaker T8 strength come in 18" and 24", However, the 22" T5HO version fits into a 24" fixture, so I couldn't tell which strength you have. If it's the weaker T8 strength and you have it sitting on top of a mesh lid to the tank/Exo Terra, this could very well be the problem, as the mesh blocks at least 40% of the UVB light emitted by the tube, and the T8 tube isn't strong enough to emit adequate UVB light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh lid (the T5HO strength is). Also, the T8 strength must be within at least 6" of your dragon's Basking Platform, while the T5HO must be within at least 11", and the T8 must be replaced once every 6 months at the oldest, while the T5HO only needs replaced once every 12 months. So if you have the T8 UVB tube and it's being obstructed by the mesh lid, you need to poke 4 holes in the mesh and then use either long, plastic Zip Ties, Wire, Twine, String, Shoelaces, etc. to strap the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, and then make sure that his Basking Platform is within at least 6" of the now unobstructed tube. This certainly will and often does cause a loss of appetite, lethargy, and even MBD.

Other than that, can you post some photos of your dragon, his entire enclosure, and lighting?

Hi EllenD. Thanks for the response.

I adjusted temp down and I will increase his light time.

The UVB is a T8. And I did move it down yesterday, it was probably at 9 in, now closer to 7, so I will move again. And there are no obstructions. I hung it inside of teraraium.

I can post pics when I get to computer. I took him to vet last night and he seems much better today, but not sure if it was vet visit or moving the UVB. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks!!

 

[kingofnobbys]

I would work through this as methodically as possible : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=236150&p=1815390#p1815390

 

[EllenD]

In general your husbandry sound okay, try not to let the Basking Spot Surface Temperature to go over 110 degrees at a maximum though, anything higher than that for long periods can cause severe dehydration, and over 115 degrees can be fatal...Also, I'd definitely increase his photoperiod from 12 hours a day to 14, as sometimes less than 14 hours a day of UVB light can not be enough and this can cause issues...

Is your 24" Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube a T8 strength, or a stronger T5HO strength? The reason I'm asking is that the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO tubes come in 16", 22", 34", etc., while the weaker T8 strength come in 18" and 24", However, the 22" T5HO version fits into a 24" fixture, so I couldn't tell which strength you have. If it's the weaker T8 strength and you have it sitting on top of a mesh lid to the tank/Exo Terra, this could very well be the problem, as the mesh blocks at least 40% of the UVB light emitted by the tube, and the T8 tube isn't strong enough to emit adequate UVB light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh lid (the T5HO strength is). Also, the T8 strength must be within at least 6" of your dragon's Basking Platform, while the T5HO must be within at least 11", and the T8 must be replaced once every 6 months at the oldest, while the T5HO only needs replaced once every 12 months. So if you have the T8 UVB tube and it's being obstructed by the mesh lid, you need to poke 4 holes in the mesh and then use either long, plastic Zip Ties, Wire, Twine, String, Shoelaces, etc. to strap the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, and then make sure that his Basking Platform is within at least 6" of the now unobstructed tube. This certainly will and often does cause a loss of appetite, lethargy, and even MBD.

Other than that, can you post some photos of your dragon, his entire enclosure, and lighting?

Hi EllenD. Thanks for the response.

I adjusted temp down and I will increase his light time.

The UVB is a T8. And I did move it down yesterday, it was probably at 9 in, now closer to 7, so I will move again. And there are no obstructions. I hung it inside of teraraium.

I can post pics when I get to computer. I took him to vet last night and he seems much better today, but not sure if it was vet visit or moving the UVB. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks!!

I'm glad he's feeling better, but sorry he's still not eating. I would highly recommend that instead of feeding him "ReptBoost", or only ReptaBoost, I would definitely buy either Oxbow Critical Care or Emerald Critical Care instead as his source of nutrition. ReptaBoost, which is supposed to be an appetite stimulant, and it is and does work as such, unfortunately does not provide anywhere near the nutrition that your Dragon needs to keep healthy and from losing weight. When I say that ReptaBoost doesn't contain the proper "nutrition", I mean in regards to Protein, Calories, Fat, Carbs, etc. ReptaBoost is NOT a "Nutritional Replacement Food", it's only an "Appetite Stimulant" that does contain Vitamins and Minerals that reptiles who are not eating properly need, but a lot of owners and Vets who are not Reptile Specialists, but rather "Exotics" vets, don't realize that simply syringe feeding a Dragon ReptaBoost is not going to sustain them at all, they will rapidly lose weight if they are not eating any live insects or greens/veggies on their own and are only syringe fed/force fed ReptaBoost. You can certainly keep giving him a daily dose of the ReptaBoost as an "Appetite Stimulant", but you must get adequate Nutrition in him to replace his normal, regular, daily diet of live insects and greens/veggies.

Either of the 2 brands, whether you choose Oxbow brand or Emerald brand, both are wonderful "Diet Replacements" for all reptiles, as they both contain roughly the same amount of Calories, Fat, Carbs, and Protein that your Dragon typically gets from his daily live insects and fresh greens/veggies. You can order both the Oxbow Critical Care (not the Carnivore Care version in this case) or the Emerald Omnivore Formula or Emerald Carnivore Formula (I believe they recommend buying a bag of both the Emerald Omnivore Formula and the Emerald Carnivore Formula and using 50% of each, which is why most Reptile Vets simply suggest the Oxbow Critical Care instead of using Emerald brand formulas, as the Oxbow Critical Care contains everything a Bearded Dragon needs to sustain their weight and health while they are not eating). I believe the cheapest place to order either from is Amazon.com, and again I would recommend just ordering a bag of the Oxbow brand Critical Care Formula. It's great stuff.

I'd continue to keep him extremely well-hydrated, only by mouth (no soaking in a bath for hydration, this is a myth, they do not absorb hydration through either their vents or their skin), using either water, or the best way is by replacing water with Unflavored Pedialyte, this will both keep him hydrated and keep his electrolyte levels regulated, which in turn will keep his muscular and nerve functions working. Again, you can give him a daily dose of the ReptaBoost as an Appetite Stimulant, and then use the Oxbow Critical Care as his actual "meal replacement" multiple times a day. Hopefully he will start eating completely on his own again, and in proper quantities soon.

*********I'm glad to hear that you already had his 24" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube mounted inside his tank and underneath the mesh lid, yes definitely get that unobstructed T8 strength UVB tube within at least 6" of him at all times, and something that I forgot to ask you the last time is whether or not the tube fixture that the Reptisun UVB tube is sitting in has a Metal Reflector inside it????? This is also extremely crucial in making sure he's getting adequate UVB light throughout his tank. If a UVB tube does not have a Metal Reflector behind it, the UVB light emitted by the tube will only be able to be absorbed if he is directly underneath the UVB tube. If the UVB tube has a Metal Reflector behind it (sitting in the tube-light fixture and wrapping itself around the UVB tube), this will reflect the UVB light emitted by the tube down and out, throughout the entire tank, no matter where he's sitting (and it will all be adequate strength UVB light as long as that T8 strength UVB tube is within 6 inches of him).***********

If you already do have a tube fixture with a Metal Reflector inside it (just looks like a piece of thick, flexible tin-foil that slides in a slot inside the fixture that is located directly behind the UVB tube chamber, and it wraps-around behind the UVB tube in an arch) and you've got it mounted inside the tank, under the mesh lid, and within at least 6" or closer to him, and you're leaving it on for at least 14 hours every single day, then all you need to make sure you do is replace that T8-strength UVB tube once every 6 months at the absolute maximum, as after 6 months of being on for at least 12 hours a day, pretty much all T8 strength UVb tubes decay to emitting 0 UVb light (the Reptisun 10.0 is the second-strongest available T8-strength UVB tube at 17 watts, the strongest is the Arcadia brand 10% T8 UVB tube at 19 watts), but even so it still will decay to emitting a very weak to zero UVB light level at 6 months old when tested by a Solarmeter.

********One more little bit of advice about the position of your UVB tube that will make all the difference in the world to his UVB light absorption (since I didn't see a photo of how you have your lights set up, I'm not sure if you have them set up this way or not, so just in-case you don't), it making sure that you have both your UVB tube and your bright-white colored Basking Bulb set up over the Hot Side of the tank, in a way that is replicating Natural Sunlight as closely as is possible in an artificial environment. You do this by placing both the UVB tube (strapped to the underside of the mesh) and the bright-white colored Basking Bulb right alongside each other, not end-to-end, but rather right alongside each other, so that they are both over the Hot Side of the tank. You want your 24" UVb tube to run across the length of the Hot Side, and any excess will run over into the Cool Side of the tank, but you want the UVB tube to cover the length of the Hot Side, along with the Basking Bulb, which is sitting on top of the mesh and right alongside the UVb tube that is under the mesh. Then you need to move whatever you use as his Basking Spot/Platform so that it is in the Hot Side of the tank and positioned directly under both lights, so that he gets both lights while he's basking.

***********It's extremely important to not have the UVB tube either "centered" to the entire tank, but rather "centered" to the Hot Side of the tank only. Also, never, ever, ever position the UVB tube so that it is directly in front of the back glass of the tank or the front glass of the tank. The bright-white colored Basking Bulb can be closer to the back or front glass of the Hot Side of the tank, but the UVB tube must be strapped to the underside of the mesh so that it is in the "center" of the Hot Side of the tank. THIS IS CRUCIAL AND IF NOT SET-UP[ PROPERLY WILL RESULT IN YOU LOSING 50% OF THE UVB LIGHT OFF OF THE GLASS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU HAVE A METAL REFLECTOR INSIDE YOUR TUBE FIXTURE OR NOT!!!***************

We see this quite a bit, people have their UVB tubes mounted underneath the mesh, which is wonderful, and is half the battle, as they lose 40% of the UVB light right off the bat if they have the UVB tube sitting on top of the mesh (and if it's a T8 strength UVB tube and not a T5 strength this will result in the dragon getting basically no UVB light at all), but then they will either have the UVB tube smack dab in the center of the entire tank and not over the Hot Side nor right alongside the Basking Bulb, and even worse, the UVB tube is not only centered to the entire tank but it is mounted right against either the back or front glass. This seems to always result in a UVB deficiency situation, because #1) 50% of the UVB light is lost immediately because it just reflects right off of the glass (no strength of UVB light can penetrate glass or plastic at all, it blocks 100%) and is lost in never-never land, and then on top of that, #2) if the UVB tube isn't over the Hot Side of the tank, AND right alongside the Basking Bulb, AND both lights are not directly over the Basking Spot/Platform, their dragon will not get both adequate and/or any UVB light or adequate and/or any of the bright-white Basking Bulb light/heat. So this will result in a UVB light deficiency/Calcium Deficiency, basking at a Basking Spot Surface Temperature that is far too cool which results in improper digestion of food, or both.

 

[charmander16]

The easiest thing to get them to eat usually is soft bodied worms. For a small one like yours this would probably be Black Soldier Fly Larva, a.k.a. Reptiworms or Calciworms. (They are maggots).

Other good options are silkworms and butterworms. Silkworms are harder to get and care for and butterworms are a little pricey, but still actually quite nutritious and easier to care for than silkworms. You can also use waxworms, which are sometimes sold in Pet Smart, but they are higher in fat so don't use them as a staple feeder, but to get him eating again it's a good option.

 

[amoondoe]

So, I have followed everyone's advice. And he is eating now and much more active. However, I just got a call from the vet, and he did test positive for Atadenovirus...so, how do we help him live with it? I am picking up a treatment from the vet today...not sure on name, I can post later.

How should our husbandry be altered? I have read that they can live with it for years, I just want to give him the best chance at a good life, not merely survival. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[EllenD]

Oh I'm so sorry...I'd be weary of whatever "treatment" the vet gives you, as there really is no "treatment" for Adenovirus. Please let us know what it exactly is, and the dosage and frequency they told you to give him.

You need to contact Tracie, she's a moderator here, but she's an expert on Adenovirus in Bearded Dragons and is literally working on a cure for it. She knows the absolute best treatments/supplements and what schedule they should be given to them. Her username here is Drache613, so you can either sent her a PM on here using her username Drache613, or hopefully Tracie will see this post. She's definitely your go-to person on Adenovirus, not the vet. I promise you that.

 

[amoondoe]

Oh I'm so sorry...I'd be weary of whatever "treatment" the vet gives you, as there really is no "treatment" for Adenovirus. Please let us know what it exactly is, and the dosage and frequency they told you to give him.

You need to contact Tracie, she's a moderator here, but she's an expert on Adenovirus in Bearded Dragons and is literally working on a cure for it. She knows the absolute best treatments/supplements and what schedule they should be given to them. Her username here is Drache613, so you can either sent her a PM on here using her username Drache613, or hopefully Tracie will see this post. She's definitely your go-to person on Adenovirus, not the vet. I promise you that.

Thanks EllenD. I reached out to Tracie, she is giving me advice. Thank you so much!!!

 

[EllenD]

Awesome! Tracie knows her stuff, especially pertaining to Adenovirus, so you're in good hands. Keep us posted on how he's doing, and remember, Adenovirus is definitely not a death sentence!!! It's very maintainable and they can live long, healthy, happy lives with this disease...