Adopted an Adult - Past Owner Mentioned Issues

[Venidara]

I've looked around for this, and found some useful things, but not quite what I'm looking for.

I just adopted my friend's 3 year old beardie, Butters, today, because she admitted that she hasn't been taking very good care of him/her (it's a girl, but she's always called him a boy because she used to think he was a boy, so she still does, and everyone else does.)

She told me two of his main issues. One is he rarely poops. I think she said he poops like one every two weeks or so, typically. He actually pooped twice today, they looked like good ones, too. I don't know how often adult bearded dragons are supposed to poop, but this seems a little too sparse. I also have a five month bearded dragon named Atreyu, who I've had for two months. Atreyu eats most of his fruits and vegetables, about 16 large crickets a day, gets a bath every 2-3 days, and poops usually every day. He seems very healthy, from what I can tell, but I'm still planning to take him to a vet. So, I'm used to having poop to clean up every day, and Butters apparently doesn't poop often, which has always concerned her.
The other issue, which I think contributes to the poop issue, is that he hates eating his fruits and vegetables. Most of the time, he'll eat a few bites of Romaine lettuce and some zucchini while she's gone, and then she has to hand feed him grapes, and he doesn't take them, she has to open his mouth and put them in. This doesn't seem good, because he's not interested in his food, she's not giving him a good variety, she doesn't give him a very nutritious staple green, and he rarely gets much fruit because he doesn't like the kind she gives him.
As for now, my plan is to bathe him as often as I bathe Atreyu (every 2-3 days), give a wider variety of foods, going between Collard and Mustard for staple greens, and giving him mashed banana through a syringe once a week (the girl at the pet store I trust told me to give Atreyu more fruits when his poop was dry, and she suggested a bit of banana for poop problems. I gave it to him once, and his poop was perfect.) to see if it will help him poop better.
She also believes he has a bone issue, because his back legs seem week and he moves slowly most of the time (he definitely can move fast, he jumps and climbs in his cage pretty quickly, he just usually doesn't move his back legs very slowly), but I'm asking the vet about that. Her calcium has phosphorus, and I was told that that can be bad for beardies because of the calcium to phosphorus ratio they need for their bones. That could be effecting it, so I'm going to try using my calcium powder that just has Calcium and D3. I want to get the one that doesn't have D3 when I can. When I first got it, I didn't see that it had anything other than calcium.

So, my question is: Does anyone have suggestions on how to improve his eating habits and help him poop? Perhaps some foods that are helpful with poop?
Also, while I'm here, I guess I'll ask if anyone has any tips for training? I've been told you can train bearded dragons (and most lizards) to respond to their name like other pets, which would be cool. But I don't know how true this is, and if anyone has managed it, could you drop me some tips? For now, I'm going to continue trying to research it, but I'm not finding much.

And here's the information thing that I'm supposed to post:
How old is your dragon?
3 years old.

How long have you had your dragon?
About 8 hours.

How long is your dragon?
Barely over a foot.

What is the sex of your dragon?
Female.

What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
16 inches tall
28 inches long
12 inches wide

What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Newspaper, and a small towel on the heated side for him to lay on and sleep on (it's what the previous owner did, and he seems to like it.)

Do you use UVB lights?
Yes.

If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
Coil.

What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
ExoTera Repti Glo 2.0 UVB

How old is your UVB bulb?
About five months. I will replace it soon.

How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
About 16 inches away. He will be able to get closer once I provide more things to climb on.

Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb?
Yes.

What are the basking temps?
About 95 F (My temps might not be quite accurate, since I have a stick on Exo Terra thermometer)

What is the cool side temp?
About 75 F

Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Currently a stick on, but I'm hoping to get a temp gun soon.


Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
The previous owner has one put on the center.

Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
A heating pad on the hot side.

What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
She said she feeds him a salad (romaine, zucchini, and hand-fed grapes) every day, and 6-7 large crickets 4 times a week.
I will be changing this greatly. I want to use a staple of mustard or collard, rotating every few weeks, and mixing a variety of zucchini, bell peppers, apples, carrots, cactus pear, banana, and strawberries (Possible others now and then). Not all will be frequent, but those are my usual options, and I try to change them up a bit each day for variety. I may have to hand feed if he doesn't choose to eat it.

How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
I don't know WHEN she fed, but I know she gave him the salad before she left for school most days.
I'll be doing it along with my current schedule for Atreyu, so I will be giving him the crickets at 7 PM on the 4 days a week, assuming that's a good amount for an adult, I'm not sure what is. I have a juvenile. I'm going to double check my book later. And I will make his salad when I get home from school at 3 each day.

Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Yes. I only feed crickets, and I keep chunks of apple and Fluker's blue water cubes, so that they don't drown.

Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
I use a calcium supplement. My mom didn't end up getting vitamin, but I will be getting that soon and alternating.
I use reptical, but I don't know what Mia uses. I use the calcium powder every day on the crickets.

Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
No. He did have two today, which is better than usual. Normally, she says he poops once ever week or two.

Do you bath your dragon? How often?
She bathed him once every week or two, I'm going to bathe him every 2-3 days.

Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
She misted him with warm water every morning and night, which I will also do. And he will have a water dish, but doesn't now.

Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
He has once, and they said to keep him warm to try improving his poop frequency, and to give him more fruit. She has barely done this. I don't believe a fecal check has been done. I will be taking both of them for these, hopefully by January.

Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
No. I have two, but they have separate enclosures. I am working on introducing them slowly, since Butters is so much bigger, and I am hoping to have them mate eventually, but I have a long ways to go before that, since Atreyu is not at sexual maturity yet and I know nothing about breeding. I won't even attempt to breed them before I know what I'm doing.

 

[vampy]

Adults don't always poop that often...average seems to be about every 3 or 4 days...some go more often, some go once a week. Going every 2 weeks isn't outside the range of normal, and shouldn't be unhealthy provided the poop is well formed and he's not really straining to go. Your plan of more nutritious greens and extra fruit is a good one. Banana isn't the best fruit to give for pooping issues. Every now and then it's fine as a treat if they like it, but you're better off going with apple, or apple sauce (unsweetened) or squash/prune baby food, or adding squash to the daily salad.

The calcium with d3 is great...better than just calcium alone, as it'll help him absorb the calcium and make his bones strong, and hopefully reverse the walking issue. He is very small for an adult...the average is about 20 inches, normal range from about 16-24 inches, so 12 inches is very very small...my 3 month old is over 12 inches (though she still needs to fill out a lot, she doesn't have the adult body shape).

Another thing that'll help with the calcium issue (and is almost certainly the reason that he is so so small) is replacing the UV. For starters, coil bulbs are not good for beardies, and can cause eye problems in some, secondly, a 2.0 bulb gives nowhere near the UV needed...those bulbs are generally recommended for reptiles who are mostly nocturnal and don't need very much UV at all. For a beardie, you need a long tube style of UV, the reptisun 10.0 or arcadia 12% are the ones that'll keep your dragon happiest and healthiest. If you get the t8 bulb, he'll need to be able to get about 8 inches away when basking, if you get the t5 (arcadia only) then the 16 inches you have it at should be ok, as they are a lot higher output. At 3 years old, she is likely permanently stunted in her growth due to bad care in the past, but you may find she grows at least a little with correct lighting, and she'll certainly be healthier.

Once you get the new thermometer, do check the basking spot temp, for an adult around 100 or a little over is best...just have it as high as he'll tolerate and still bask, or put in several levels of basking platform so he can choose the temp he wants to be at. 95 is the lowest it should be to allow him to still digest his food properly.

If I were you, I'd make the salad in the morning, so he has it in his tank all day to nibble on as he feels like it. Feeding the crickets at 4 is fine though. As adults they need about 50 large crickets a week...you can feed them daily or every other day, it's up to you. Generally adults don't need every meal dusted with calcium, just 2 or 3 times a week, but as he probably has a bit of MBD, you may want to stick with the higher dusting schedule until his calcium levels are up, and drop it down after a few weeks/if his urates start being very hard and chalky.

You don't need to mist him at all, if you're going to bathe him a couple of times a week he'll get all the water he needs from that. He also doesn't really need a water bowl. You can give him one if you really want, but it's not needed, and it may raise the humidity in the viv too much for him.

Finally, I wouldn't even consider breeding them, even in future. She is so so small for an adult, it could be harmful to her, and making eggs takes a lot of calcium...she might be able to deal with this in future when you've got her back to health, but even so, her size would concern me a lot, both with carrying the eggs, and the mating process itself.

Good luck with bringing this little guy back to health!

 

[vampy]

Oh, and as for training...just be persistent with whatever you do. Beardies learn routines very quickly, even if they are a bit rubbish at learning simple facts of nature like the fact that they can't walk through glass!

My bf's female responds to her name (not that she'll come when called, but if you say her name she'll look at you and know you want to interact with her), and he didn't do anything special to get her to do this, just said her name every time he went over to her tank to feed her/otherwise interact with her. She's also learned to ask to come out when she needs to poop, and when she was in a top opening tank, he taught her to 'tell' him if she wanted to come out for cuddles...he'd put his hand in front of her face and make a 'come hither' motion, and if she either moved towards his hand or left her eyes open, he'd pick her up, if she closed her eyes he'd leave her...took him only a week or two to teach her this. Now her viv opens at the side though, so he mostly just leaves it open when she asks to come out so she can come and go as she wants.

 

[sweetiepie9]

The worst this is the coil, you need to swtich that to a Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia 12% tube light and turn it off right now. That would have a big thing to do with the non-pooping as she's not digesting her food, that's also why she's not growing as she should. She should be able to get within 6-8" from the UVB light and I would change it asap, she needs good UVB having gone without it for 3 years now. I'm surprised she has no problems with her eyes, Reptiglos are known for that. The one she's getting is for geckos that don't even need UVB.

The 2nd you're going to change is her food, so that will also make a bit difference. The coil light could be causing MBD as it's not sufficient UVB for her at all. MBD is Metabolic Bone Disease, caused by not sufficient UVB and the wrong calcium, which you're going to change, too. It's a softness in their bones that can be reversed.

Phospherous is very bad for beardies, makes their calcium difficult to digest. So phosphorus free calcium with vitD is what she needs and also vit/minerals. The repcal brand you have is a really good calcium & Flukers has a vit/min powder that your beardies need at least twice a week. You should give her the right type of calcium once a day for awhile and also vit/min twice a week until she starts growing & absorbing her UVB. I'd say go for a month of daily, then drop down to 3x/week. I use mercury vapour lamps, Power Suns, so my dragons don't need VitD3, I give them liquid calcium 3x/wk and liquid vit/min 1x per week. The temps need to be accurate, as well and should be closer to 100 than 95. Getting a temp gun would be great, but if you want something less expensive a digital temp with probe called Accurite, found in the garden section of Walmart or Lowes for about $12 would be fine for now. Leave it on the basking spot for 45 min to get an accurate temp. The round ones can be 20 degrees off. Your other beardie needs the vit/min powder as they don't get everything to stay healthy from the food you give them.

She'll need a wider enclosure, so if you can manage it, a 40gallon breeder would be the best size. I have 5 dragons, all adult males, 4 of them are in the 40 gallons breeders (also called critter cages) and my biggest is in a 75 gallon, but that's because he's 22" long and 800g. All of my dragons are at least 17" long and that's where your new girl should be. All of the mistakes her previous owner made is why she's not grown very much. My smallest dragon is 17" long and 430g and that is small for an adult dragon. He didn't get enough UVB either when he was younger.

Get rid of the heating pad, they don't need heat from the bottom of their tanks as they feel heat from the top of their heads. If the temps in the room where she's staying is less than 65F at night, then get a small watt ceramic heat emitter, maybe a 50W to heat up her tank at night, otherwise neither of your beardies need extra heat at night.

I've used newspaper as a substrate for 6 years, it's great for clean up, even though 4 of my beardies poop in their daily baths. You might want to give her some extra baths as she's probably dehydrated, too. The great thing about putting layers of newspaper in her tank, is it's nice and warm.

Feed her crickets every day, she's going to need the protein. 50-70 bugs a week is good for an adult & she might need more as she needs to grow. You'd be amazed how much a dragon will grow in length when finally given the right UVB, tank & temps & food. And just to reassure you, I have 3 rescued dragons, the youngest is about 2yrs old, I got him in April, he was 280g, 17" long and full of parasites. After 3 mo of daily calcium, good UVB light, proper tank and good food (babyfood to begin with, he was so skinny), he's now 492g and has grown another inch. I also have a 9 1/2 yr old that I adopted when he was 5 yrs old and Didi, my smallest dragon, was a foster that I got to keep. All I've learned has been from this site.

You need to also feed your crickets protein cricket food, along with the apple and the water cubes. That will give them the protein they need to stay healthy & also give your dragons extra food, too.

Please don't mist your dragons in their tanks, they don't need the extra humidity and they don't need water dishes either. They are low humidity reptiles, too much humidity can cause respiratory tract infections which can be lethal. So please remove the water dishes. And misting is great, just outside of their tanks.

I'm glad you'll be taking them in for a check up. As for introducing them, get Butters in better health first and let your little guy get a bit bigger and keep your eye on them, as beardies are solitary animals and really don't socialize very well. I'm glad you're holding off breeding, it's a very complicated and expensive thing. It's not the breeding that's the issue, it's having a healthy mother, and then it's raising the possible 3 clutches that could come from 1 mating. I have a friend who breeds & one summer, from one breeding, she had 65 babies to care for. They have to be a good 6=8 weeks old before you'd want to sell them and can eat up to 100 bugs each every day. I'm glad you'll be doing your homework before you get into breeding. Your male should be about 18 mo old before you attempt it, as that's when they're fully grown and Butters needs to be in much better health.

So I hope I helped with this information. Butters is ok in her tank for now, but she will need a bigger one at one point. It doesn't have to be new, if you can find one on Craig's list or even check the "for Free" section on this site. I love the 40 gallon breeders, as they're 18" wide, 2' long and 18" high. My 4 males have been living in that sized tank for as long as I've had them, I've been rescuing dragons since 2006. Please keep in touch about Butters to let me know how she's getting on.
Take care
Deb

I was submitting at the same time as Vampy, so you'll get alot of info from the 2 of us.

 

[Venidara]

I apologize, I got some information wrong because I posted this in a hurry and couldn't get some things accurate.
First off, I got accurate measurements of the terrarium for Butters:
31.5" X 12" X 18"
18" is the height.

A bit bigger than I thought. I'm bet at estimating.

Also, I measured her more accurately, and she is 15.5". Her head is 2" wide.

I am getting a better UVB light, hopefully tomorrow. Her heat light is red, I forgot to mention that. It is on day and night. I'm getting her rocks and sticks to climb on, as well. And soon she will have a basking rock, hopefully with a little "house" underneath, like my boy, Atreyu, has.
I'm hoping to get climbing nets as well, unless any of you know of problems they could cause. I won't put them TOO high.
I put in a water bowl, but it's short and wide, no more than a fourth of a cup of water in it, if that. Probably more like an eighth.

So far my main plan is to switch to the Calcium + D3 powder I use with my male, get a better UVB, add climbing materials and a basking rock with a hiding place, and start feeding organic baby food and/or my own mashed fruits and vegetables around 5 PM if she doesn't eat much, to make sure she eats.

I definitely WON'T breed unless I get her healthy and get an okay from a vet on both of them to breed together, and get help from the person I know who used to be a professional bearded dragon breeder. I'm hoping he grows a bit once he gets a better diet and UVB light. If I don't get a definite okay in a few years, I won't even try breeding. I want it to be guaranteed by professionals that the dragons I'm breeding are safe to breed before ever trying. If not, I may talk to friends I know who have females, because I think it would be fun and interesting to breed if I knew what I was doing.

 

[sweetiepie9]

It all sounds great, but she doesn't need the heat lamp, espeically if it's red. The basking light gives her all the heat she'll need & unless your temps at night get below 65F she doesn't need heat of any sort at night. If your temps do get below that she'd need a small watt 50W maybe ceramic neat emitter. There's something about the red light that bothers them, so just turn it off.

Glad you've got all that sorted for her now, she'll be glad she's gotten a good home!

 

[Venidara]

The red light is her heat light.
I may change it when I get the chance to buy a new one, but she definitely needs something for heat in the tank at night, because it's about 40-50 degrees outside here currently, I think, and my room absorbs cold. It's only warm now because I have two heat lamps in it.
She does have a heating pad, though. I could see if turning it off helps her sleeping patterns at all, it is a really bright light. I was told they can't see red light, so it won't bother them.
My other beardie uses a black light at night, the one I already had before Butters, and he goes to sleep really fast. He actually seems to have his own sleep schedule, close to mine. If I come in after 10 to change lights, though I never do it later than 10:30, even if it's just a few minutes, he'll already have crawled under his rock for darkness and fallen asleep. And he wakes up when I do on school days, and wakes up and waits for me on weekends. Butters, however, goes to sleep most nights around 12-1 and would probably sleep all day if I didn't wake her up. :/
She's really lazy, so I hope the things I'm changing for her bone health along with her new climbing materials will end up improving her health as well. She pretty much sits in the same spot of her cage, right on top of or under the piece of wood in there. I know they're supposed to be active, and Atreyu runs all over his terrarium, which is too small for him at the moment and soon to be replaced, but she barely moves unless I move her or hold her and make her move. Even when she's taken out and allowed to roam around while someone watches her, she tends to just find a spot she can crawl into and "hide" and just sit there until she's put back. In my room, she likes to head for the pile of dirty clothes and go under it. I take her out and try to get her to move around more, though. Mia, her past owner, said she always does that. Most dragons I've seen, including Atreyu, will bask until they over heat, gape for a minute or two, and go into a cooler place to cool down, and repeat. Yesterday, she had been basking AND gaping for 20 minutes (at the same time, she had been basking a while before she started gaping), and I moved her to the cool side just to make sure she would be okay.
She at her crickets well last night, though. Mostly, she wouldn't eat the last one, but it might have just been too many for her that day.

 

[jwideman]

Red light is VERY bad for beardies. Worse than no heat at night, even.

 

[vampy]

I'd agree that you need to get the red light out of there and use a bright white bulb for daytime basking, and a CHE to warm to tank at night. She needs the bright white light to protect her eyes from the UV rays, which will be much higher than she is getting at the moment once you get the right bulb, and overnight she'll sleep much better in the dark. If you absolutely can't get a CHE right now, you could leave the red light on at night and make sure she is under something or covered in a blanket so it's dark for her, but no light is much better.

Also, you probably will find she perks up with the correct UV/light/temperatures, but bear in mind that it's brumation season now, so don't be too surprised if she's still rather lazy and sluggish, or even if she wants to sleep for a long time, and doesn't start to get really active until spring.