Adenoviruses

[Gail]

If I remember right, it needs to be exposed to high temps for a number of minutes to kill it.

 

[MissT]

No, you can't get it from your dragon. Adeno is very contagious so if you have a positive, that dragon needs to be in a separate room from the others and you have to make sure not to cross contaminate. Anything the positive dragon touches must not be allowed around the other dragon. This includes any feeders the sick dragon had in its cage/feeding area and didn't eat. I'd keep its feeders separate.

Change you clothes after handling the positive one, wash your hands and don't use the same tub for bathing the different dragons. I also would designate a separate are for the positive dragon to run around in, you don't want it to have free reign of the house.

I'm not sure what cleaners will kill the virus, pretty sure bleach won't do the trick. If you suspect your dragon has adeno, you really need to get it tested. Just because one dragon from BB has adeno, doesn't mean every sick one from them does.

Not meaning to contradict but, it has been my understanding that adeno is spread from direct fecal - oral contact. Provided a negative dragon is not licking a positive dragons excrement, then the chances of the virus being spread are low. It is not airbourne therefore I do not believe there is a need to go so far as to move positive dragons to a separate room. I have spoken to several people who have both positive and negative dragons and they all seem to confirm this as being correct.

 

[pscaulkins]

Not meaning to contradict but, it has been my understanding that adeno is spread from direct fecal - oral contact. Provided a negative dragon is not licking a positive dragons excrement, then the chances of the virus being spread are low. It is not airbourne therefore I do not believe there is a need to go so far as to move positive dragons to a separate room. I have spoken to several people who have both positive and negative dragons and they all seem to confirm this as being correct.

I disagree with this. Back in the day when people talked about adeno, they stated that just holding a positive one contaminated a negative one. Go back and read posts and threads from 2005 on various sites. You will get a wealth of information people shared back then.

BTW, steaming kills coccidia and parasites but not adeno per my vet.

 

[ekoulouris]

hat was wrong with your dragon and how is he now?

 

[MissT]

Not meaning to contradict but, it has been my understanding that adeno is spread from direct fecal - oral contact. Provided a negative dragon is not licking a positive dragons excrement, then the chances of the virus being spread are low. It is not airbourne therefore I do not believe there is a need to go so far as to move positive dragons to a separate room. I have spoken to several people who have both positive and negative dragons and they all seem to confirm this as being correct.

I disagree with this. Back in the day when people talked about adeno, they stated that just holding a positive one contaminated a negative one. Go back and read posts and threads from 2005 on various sites. You will get a wealth of information people shared back then.

BTW, steaming kills coccidia and parasites but not adeno per my vet.

Per my own vet and several people i know, it is not as dreadfully contagious as was thought. Adeno is NOT airbourne so keeping positive dragons in the same room is not a problem and clothing is not an issue.

 

[MissT]

Having read several research papers, the conclusion seems to be that spread is through fecal to oral contact so unless I have the feces of my positive dragons on my clothes, it will not spread to my negative dragon.

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

funny to see this post with NEGATIVE reviews of bloodbank i thought i was crazy when i had a sick dragon from bloodbank but now my issues are confirmed

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, bloodbank has some of the worst breeding practices I've ever run into. Personally, you couldn't give me one of their dragons for free. It's unfortunate, because they have a lot of nice-looking dragons.

 

[Gail]

Having read several research papers, the conclusion seems to be that spread is through fecal to oral contact so unless I have the feces of my positive dragons on my clothes, it will not spread to my negative dragon.

Thats the problem. Unless you disinfect the cage every time your positive dragon goes poo, it will eventually get the virus on its feet which can be transferred to your clothing or floor where the negative dragon could pick it up.
By keeping the dragons in separate rooms, there is less of a chance that the owner might make a mistake and use something from the positive dragons cage, in the negative dragons cage.

 

[MissT]

Having read several research papers, the conclusion seems to be that spread is through fecal to oral contact so unless I have the feces of my positive dragons on my clothes, it will not spread to my negative dragon.

Thats the problem. Unless you disinfect the cage every time your positive dragon goes poo, it will eventually get the virus on its feet which can be transferred to your clothing or floor where the negative dragon could pick it up.
By keeping the dragons in separate rooms, there is less of a chance that the owner might make a mistake and use something from the positive dragons cage, in the negative dragons cage.

Sounds logical.
But, with that logic comes this issue. If I am in the room where my positive dragons are running around, spreading the virus, I'm going to end up with it on my socks/shoes/feet. Therefore, to even step into any other room of my house I will have to remove my shoes/socks or disinfect my feet in order to restrict spreading it to another room. With that logic, anything I touch between my positive dragon and my sink will be infected. It's on doors, handles, the faucet. It's on my dog, my cat. It's in their bath since it has sat on the floor of the room. To fill the bath I take it to the bathroom/kitchen so it's in there too. Basically what you are implying is that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to have a negative dragon in a household where there are positives unless nothing from outside the room gets into it!

If bleach etc doesn't kill it, then disinfecting my hands and feet will do nothing-neither will disinfecting their cages. What about their blankets/viv furniture. If I wash those I'm just further spreading it. It's even in my washing machine therefore any clothes that go in my washing machine for the next few cycles will be infected too.

What is basically being said in these comments is that if you have a positive dragon you can be about 99% certain that there is adeno everywhere in your house!

 

[ShannyBeard]

I am shocked that there isn't some study or information on how long AV can live outside the body. I mean, in the healthcare industry they tell us in our OSHA training how long HIV and hepatitis can live outside the body. HIV lives outside the body for such a small length of time it's such a relief.

I just can't believe that AV can live outside the body for such extended periods of time to contaminate everything indefinitely.

 

[Gail]

removed for going off topic.

 

[MissT]

It's called venting. Note this-I know a LOT of the members here go to the group. If I was worried about you seeing it, I wouldn't have put it there. I can't vent here about paranoid logic- that would result in warnings and bans and moderators having to go out of their way to clear up my mess. I do find the logic paranoid. But I do not appreciate being called 'the reason this virus spreads'. I will never breed my dragons and from the day and hour I found out about the adeno, I have done everything in my power to find out what it is and how to keep Travis out of the risk. I do not have the space to set him up in another room. I considered revoking him and returning him to the breeder until others who are dealing with it on a daily basis told me how to cope with it... Nancy McBride, Christene and Maggie have been 3 of the most wonderful people who all have it in their homes! If it weren't for them, I would probably be a paranoid wreck!

 

[pscaulkins]

MissT, back in 2005 and 2006, a breeder tested and had a negative colony, then bought a baby for a breeder. This person held the baby and then held one of his negative breeders and that dragon got contaminated. I also know a breeder that went to a show and someone that had a positive dragon held his babies and they all got sick. This happened a lot back then. But like all viruses, it mutates and changes. The virus out today may be different then the virus 10 years ago. Back then, a positive female could lay negative eggs til 2nd, 3rd or 4th year of breeding. Then wham, whole clutches dying or having issues. I used to have a list of positive breeders by just reading and talking to people. Doesn't matter anymore as it's been out for so long and no new blood/genetics being imported. You can pretty much say that there are few negatives out there. Why would a breeder test? Breeders would lose business. Back in the day when people were having issues, only a few breeders admitted an issue but believe me, there were many who didn't. I give credit to the ones man enough to go public only for the forum people to harass them. Adenovirus used to be a hot topic and people got hurt over it. I know one breeder that was harassed beyond harassed over it. Tracie, you remember the harrassment people got.

I have two positives that to me is as healthy as a negative. I have a motto now, if it isn't broken, don't fix.

MissT, a dragon goes poo and the vent is contaminated, you don't have to see poo as adeno is not seen by the naked eye. Having one lay on your shirt will contaminate your shirt.

 

[Drache613]

Hello All,

Thanks for keeping this civil!
I wish I had all of the answers, but I don't. Vets don't have the answers, either.
I do agree that Adeno is a very hearty virus which is hard to kill. At one point Lou Ann had told me it could live "outside of the host" for 6 months & can be exposed to heat, etc & still live. I think though, we can stretch things a bit. There are successful cases now in which positives & negatives can reside in the same areas with caution.
It is not known to be routinely airborne so it is possible to keep them in the same room. However, a few people have agreed to continue yearly testing for me....so then, we will know for absolute. This is what needs to be done, continual testing to find out the true transmission rates. We know it is fecal to oral, etc but just how many other ways can it transmit & do they ever shed it? I hope to have more answers within the next year or so.
Steaming doesn't kill per say but it can cut it down & if done repeatedly it could get rid of it. This takes some work.
I agree that the particles can get everywhere, but it may not transmit quite that easily just by trapsing over the floor. Time will tell since I have a couple of people now who have a negative & a positive living in the same areas, but separate tanks. I am looking forward to seeing the results.
Yes Sandy, I do remember the harrassment. Do you think it's over? Nope. They have just transferred their aggressions to me. I don't really care because I am not the one with something to hide, they are. I am seeing way too many ill dragons because of their poor breeding practices & they have no regard for their health.
Not all dragons have Adeno. I have two that do not have Adeno & have been tested yearly, for 4 years. It does not lie dormant, waiting to come out. They are not naturally born with this virus that is not correct. I believe it is a virus which manifests due to poor husbandry such as dirty conditions, etc during breeding, or housing multiple dragons together which spreads.


Tracie

 

[ShannyBeard]

WOW Thanks for the information, Tracie. Even with all that said, we don't really know much! It really makes me nervous to try and help beardies like my Papa Smurf in the fear that he would have it and my other beardies would get it, but it sounds like they all have pretty much the same chance at having it anyhow.

We do here what we do in healthcare, universal precautions. Other than my dragons that came from the same breeder, we do the hand-washing and trying to just be careful, but we aren't going overboard and freaking out. We just do the best we can.