MrSpectrum
Gray-bearded Member
He needs UV-B and warmth, and both from above, so his parietal eye can do its thing (help him regulate temperature and exposure). Beyond that, AFAIK, any supplemental lighting would be for our (human viewer) benefit.
Adding a Florescent Tube for Added Light? Yes or No?
- Thread starter Rschasch
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There is a lot of benefit to trying to achieve a spectrum and output as close to the sun as possible. Currently with just a uvb bulb and a basking bulb, there are lots of areas of the spectrum that are lacking (depending mainly on your basking bulb, incandescents actually do a decent job of outputting relatively even spectra)
What would be ideal in my mind would be recreating changing spectra throughout the day. Such as more red and oranges in the morning and evening, and brighter whites and blues in the afternoons.
Remember dragons have an extra cone in their eyes which allows them to see much more of the light spectrum than we can. What we see most likely looks much different than how their brains interpret it. That's part of the reason why red bulbs are a nono with dragons.
Take cri for example. That's a measurement largely based off human eye perception of light, and likely has no real carry over to dragons perception of light.
-Brandon
What would be ideal in my mind would be recreating changing spectra throughout the day. Such as more red and oranges in the morning and evening, and brighter whites and blues in the afternoons.
Remember dragons have an extra cone in their eyes which allows them to see much more of the light spectrum than we can. What we see most likely looks much different than how their brains interpret it. That's part of the reason why red bulbs are a nono with dragons.
Take cri for example. That's a measurement largely based off human eye perception of light, and likely has no real carry over to dragons perception of light.
-Brandon
MrSpectrum
Gray-bearded Member
Is that opinion/theory or are there articles/studies on it? As I said, AFAIK, and still learning. Now that you mention it I do recall that the basking bulb is best as full--or near-full spectrum (mercury vapor?) That seemed like overkill with a HO 10.0 UV-B, so it may have slipped to the back of my mind. (I think it was also mentioned that M-Vs were pricey, IIRC.) I think that was my reasoning for going with a regular incandescent flood for basking, with the HO fluorescent UV-B.claudiusx":3v3ksb43 said:
YMMV
It's based off my talks with francis, and my own studies into parietal eyes in lizards. The simple fact that dragons have this, leads credence to the thought that lighting is extremely important to them in more ways than one.
And on a completely unscientific thought process, it would make sense to use as natural of a light as you can, and not something with high spikes in certain colors. Simply because its what's natural to them. There is a reason most dragons will drastically change appearance (either brighter colors, or darker colors if wanting to absorb heat) when taken outside. Natural light does a lot of good for them and I think it is best to try to replicate that as closely as we can. That means all parts of it, not just uva and uvb.
Incandescents are what have decent spectrum. Its just not very strong. I believe mvbs have some spikes in the blue green range, but that could be wrong. I'm at work so dont have as easy access to all my notes and charts on this.
I think you are thinking of metal hallide bulbs though. Those are great but they are very expensive and get very hot. Not really suitable for the average enclosure. But they are usually what's used in zoos.
-Brandon
And on a completely unscientific thought process, it would make sense to use as natural of a light as you can, and not something with high spikes in certain colors. Simply because its what's natural to them. There is a reason most dragons will drastically change appearance (either brighter colors, or darker colors if wanting to absorb heat) when taken outside. Natural light does a lot of good for them and I think it is best to try to replicate that as closely as we can. That means all parts of it, not just uva and uvb.
Incandescents are what have decent spectrum. Its just not very strong. I believe mvbs have some spikes in the blue green range, but that could be wrong. I'm at work so dont have as easy access to all my notes and charts on this.
I think you are thinking of metal hallide bulbs though. Those are great but they are very expensive and get very hot. Not really suitable for the average enclosure. But they are usually what's used in zoos.
-Brandon
Rschasch
Member
While i Have you here Brandon (and MrSpectrum :lol: ), do you mind if i can pick your brain(s) a bit for something i am considering?
Currently my basking light looks like this, https://imgur.com/a/ankrusp which i've shown on this forum in the last few day, As well as a zoomed 50 watt Basking bulb.
After reading, and rereading your stickied post on what to buy, I'm contemplating switching to a fixture like so https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lithonia-Lighting-300-Watt-EQ-Bronze-Dusk-to-Dawn-Floodlight/1000705254 with this PAR light https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...ndoor-Outdoor-Spotlight-Bulb-419432/203231670
I know in your post you mention the Kelvin rating of the brightness being important, so im curious as to your thoughts on 2900K basking bulbs? they are currently all that is available around me, without ordering from the interwebs.
The reason i am considering the switch in the first place, is so that i can get rid of the dome and have more ambient heat/light. I'm pretty confident in my temps right now, and with the addition of an extra sunblaster my light levels will be better, but why settle at ok, if something else is better right?
If you've got the time id love to hear your insight on my plans!
Currently my basking light looks like this, https://imgur.com/a/ankrusp which i've shown on this forum in the last few day, As well as a zoomed 50 watt Basking bulb.
After reading, and rereading your stickied post on what to buy, I'm contemplating switching to a fixture like so https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lithonia-Lighting-300-Watt-EQ-Bronze-Dusk-to-Dawn-Floodlight/1000705254 with this PAR light https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...ndoor-Outdoor-Spotlight-Bulb-419432/203231670
I know in your post you mention the Kelvin rating of the brightness being important, so im curious as to your thoughts on 2900K basking bulbs? they are currently all that is available around me, without ordering from the interwebs.
The reason i am considering the switch in the first place, is so that i can get rid of the dome and have more ambient heat/light. I'm pretty confident in my temps right now, and with the addition of an extra sunblaster my light levels will be better, but why settle at ok, if something else is better right?
If you've got the time id love to hear your insight on my plans!
I am going to be updating that guide in the coming weeks soon. Lots of the links are old and some of the information needs to be updated. I wrote it a long time ago now. 
just waiting on alex the site owner to get some free time.
The kelvin rating of the bulb wont have as big of an impact for you, since you're going to have so much more supplemental lighting than one normally would have. Plus that sunblaster is 6500k. So the addition of a bulb rated 2900k isnt really a concern, and in a sense might be beneficial when there is already so much high kelvin light in the tank. Although that last part is just my theory. It definitely wont hurt.
The purpose behind the original statement of a bright white basking bulb was to firstly discourage the use of colored bulbs, but to also encourage a light color in the tank that is more daytime equivalent. And not so much a dawn or dusk equivalent (low kelvin levels, warmer lights). But, like I said, your sunblaster (and uvb bulb to a point) take care of that goal of higher kelvin levels in the tank.
I feel like I'm rambling now lol. But your idea is perfectly fine!
Is his basking area the floor under that dome?
-Brandon
just waiting on alex the site owner to get some free time. The kelvin rating of the bulb wont have as big of an impact for you, since you're going to have so much more supplemental lighting than one normally would have. Plus that sunblaster is 6500k. So the addition of a bulb rated 2900k isnt really a concern, and in a sense might be beneficial when there is already so much high kelvin light in the tank. Although that last part is just my theory. It definitely wont hurt.
The purpose behind the original statement of a bright white basking bulb was to firstly discourage the use of colored bulbs, but to also encourage a light color in the tank that is more daytime equivalent. And not so much a dawn or dusk equivalent (low kelvin levels, warmer lights). But, like I said, your sunblaster (and uvb bulb to a point) take care of that goal of higher kelvin levels in the tank.
I feel like I'm rambling now lol. But your idea is perfectly fine!
Is his basking area the floor under that dome?
-Brandon
MrSpectrum
Gray-bearded Member
Unquestionably, Brandon knows more about lighting than I currently do, but I did notice some things that make me go, "Hmmmm." :?
The fixture you linked to for a basking light is an outdoor double fixture. Is that what you intended? Is that for 2 basking bulbs or 1 basking bulb and another bulb to boost the ambient light?
The 39-Watt Equivalent Halogen Spot you've chosen--is that to be the basking bulb? Because I don't know how much heat a 39 watt bulb is going to produce; I'm seeing more standard incandescent spots in the 75-150 watt range. Or is that for boosting the ambient?
I'm using a recessed eyeball fixture like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-E2...Trim-with-Adjustable-Eyeball-6130WH/207093121 It requires a can above a false ceiling in the enclosure, but it doesn't protrude down into the main enclosure, and it's aimable. It'll handle a 75 watt incandescent flood. I have the option of adding another, or a different kind of eyeball fixture if I find additional ambient lighting is needed.
The fixture you linked to for a basking light is an outdoor double fixture. Is that what you intended? Is that for 2 basking bulbs or 1 basking bulb and another bulb to boost the ambient light?
The 39-Watt Equivalent Halogen Spot you've chosen--is that to be the basking bulb? Because I don't know how much heat a 39 watt bulb is going to produce; I'm seeing more standard incandescent spots in the 75-150 watt range. Or is that for boosting the ambient?
I'm using a recessed eyeball fixture like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-E2...Trim-with-Adjustable-Eyeball-6130WH/207093121 It requires a can above a false ceiling in the enclosure, but it doesn't protrude down into the main enclosure, and it's aimable. It'll handle a 75 watt incandescent flood. I have the option of adding another, or a different kind of eyeball fixture if I find additional ambient lighting is needed.
Rschasch
Member
Okay, lots to respond to so I'll try and answer all of it.
Brandon, That's Awesome that you are putting in so much effort into that information! I know myself and plenty of other Beardie caretakers are really benefiting from it, and their dragons are getting better care for it!
Here is the link to an image taken from Knox's Webcam (Netvue Orb, I definitely recommend it so you can watch your Beardies in real time, possibly when you should be focusing on work) https://imgur.com/a/AEuqqDh I put the basking rock from his smaller enclosure into his new one, I just didn't have it in the other pics i took. With the basking light being so close to the rock, the basking temp is roughly 105-107, but the temp quickly drops to around 85 near the fake aloe vera plant. Hense why i want a wider berth basking light.
MrSpectrum, It WAS my intention to use a double light fixture so i can have 1 PAR Basking Halogen, and 1 regular household light to spread warmth throughout the warm side, as well as brighten up the enclosure even more.
Secondly, the reason i am going with a 39 watt halogen bulb for basking is that i have read that halogen bulbs get much hotter than their incandescent cousins. I currently only use a 50 watt zoomed basking bulb, dimmed to roughly 80% and that heats my 4x2x2 wooden enclosure. That said, I'm not stuck on the 39 watt bulb, I would increase the wattage if the temps were not reaching where i would like them to be. Basically right now i have no trouble reaching proper temps under the basking condition, but i believe i need more ambient heat/ much more light in the enclosure overall for when he is away from the basking spot.
I do like the idea of doing the recessed basking light like your idea, but i would rather not have to dismantle the tank again to install it, so for the time being im searching for ideas that i can implement while my fiance has Knox out to hangout.
Brandon, That's Awesome that you are putting in so much effort into that information! I know myself and plenty of other Beardie caretakers are really benefiting from it, and their dragons are getting better care for it!
Here is the link to an image taken from Knox's Webcam (Netvue Orb, I definitely recommend it so you can watch your Beardies in real time, possibly when you should be focusing on work) https://imgur.com/a/AEuqqDh I put the basking rock from his smaller enclosure into his new one, I just didn't have it in the other pics i took. With the basking light being so close to the rock, the basking temp is roughly 105-107, but the temp quickly drops to around 85 near the fake aloe vera plant. Hense why i want a wider berth basking light.
MrSpectrum, It WAS my intention to use a double light fixture so i can have 1 PAR Basking Halogen, and 1 regular household light to spread warmth throughout the warm side, as well as brighten up the enclosure even more.
Secondly, the reason i am going with a 39 watt halogen bulb for basking is that i have read that halogen bulbs get much hotter than their incandescent cousins. I currently only use a 50 watt zoomed basking bulb, dimmed to roughly 80% and that heats my 4x2x2 wooden enclosure. That said, I'm not stuck on the 39 watt bulb, I would increase the wattage if the temps were not reaching where i would like them to be. Basically right now i have no trouble reaching proper temps under the basking condition, but i believe i need more ambient heat/ much more light in the enclosure overall for when he is away from the basking spot.
I do like the idea of doing the recessed basking light like your idea, but i would rather not have to dismantle the tank again to install it, so for the time being im searching for ideas that i can implement while my fiance has Knox out to hangout.
Yeah wattages are not a real good measurement to go off of because heat is not really a standard want from a light bulb manufacturer. It's actually an extreme inefficiency.
The current bulbs I use are 50w and they give me the temps I need (sometimes a but too much!) But in the past I've used 100w with certain bulbs, 75w with others.
I even used I think it was a 175w for my uro, and it got only a few degrees hotter than my current 50ws at the same distance.
Some bulbs and some manufacturing process just make them less efficient (better for us) than others. It's all a matter of trial and error in most cases.
The 38w might do just fine for you, especially being not the only bulb.
-Brandon
The current bulbs I use are 50w and they give me the temps I need (sometimes a but too much!) But in the past I've used 100w with certain bulbs, 75w with others.
I even used I think it was a 175w for my uro, and it got only a few degrees hotter than my current 50ws at the same distance.
Some bulbs and some manufacturing process just make them less efficient (better for us) than others. It's all a matter of trial and error in most cases.
The 38w might do just fine for you, especially being not the only bulb.
-Brandon
And, the fixture you linked to will be nice as you really dont need a reflector with the par bulbs. And the fixture allows you to angle them how you want. So I'd go for it and see what happens.
Half the fun is in the learning process and finding what works and what doesnt work for you
-Brandon
Half the fun is in the learning process and finding what works and what doesnt work for you
-Brandon
Rschasch
Member
claudiusx":2ah56y2s said:Half the fun is in the learning process and finding what works and what doesnt work for you
Half the fun, most definitely! 99% of the stress associated with wanting to make sure you provide a suitable home, Also Definitely! :lol:
Thanks for letting me bend your Ears, both of you! I will give you updates when i get everything completed!
MrSpectrum
Gray-bearded Member
Well, if you're getting that kind of heat from a 39 watt bulb, I may not have to max out to 75 watts (highest wattage the eyeball is rated for). I might get away with a 50 watt. :dontknow:
Rschasch":1pxnqvqk said:
Just wanted to update this thread, since I'm a doofus and didn't realize that sunblaster puts the spetra graph on the back of their boxes... (i have 3 in my closet right now... lol)
Pretty pathetic to be honest lol! Sure, it's full spectrum in the sense that it outputs throughout the range, but it's far from lining up with the suns spectra.
Not that it will be bad to use, but it's not putting out much different spectra (or filling in the gaps) from your uvb bulb.
-Brandon
MrSpectrum
Gray-bearded Member
Yeah, but who's going to light a reptile enclosure with a fusion reaction? :laughhard:
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