A bunch of random symptoms, the vet is lost

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
O.K, bloodwork will show high glucose if there's a tumor so it would have been that way in December. So I doubt that Darius has the GNC tumor. If you think he did O.K with the shots then it's probably fine. Remember that his bad symptoms were the worst when he was on metronidazole for months and now that he's been off of it he's doing much better.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is your dragon doing today? When are you planning on going to the vet?
He sounds like he is doing better now with not being on any medications at the
moment.
How is his appetite now? Please keep us updated on how he is doing.


Tracie
 

Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
Hello,

How is your dragon doing today? When are you planning on going to the vet?
He sounds like he is doing better now with not being on any medications at the
moment.
How is his appetite now? Please keep us updated on how he is doing.


Tracie
Darius ate 4 crickets with plain CA and arugula yesterday. He ate plain chicory leaves with collard greens for his salad today. He is standing and basking right now on his cork tube.

Our appointment is at 1:30PM tomorrow (Vet is only in on Fridays). He has a couple scales on his back that are greyish in colour and I want to have them tested. He had a well formed poop yesterday and I put it in the fridge to bring to be tested tomorrow. I want to go over the bloodwork from December 3rd at the appointment as well.
 

jwylie94

Member
Beardie name(s)
Elmer
Hey guys, I have an 11 year old bearded dragon named Darius. He has been to the vet several times this year and most recently 2 months ago because I am always watching him and worrying about him. He has a few random issues 1-a small "sore" next to his eye that sort of looks like a wart but has not changed at all over time. 2-He will randomly bulge his eyes way out of his head and it looks freaky, he will do it for short periods very sporadically. 3- He has random muscle twitches fairly frequently, his beard will twitch, sides of the mouth, thighs, back and belly. 4- His head will "tremor" which seems like hes vibrating it. It will come and go and seems to be when hes holding his neck in certain positions, the vet said that he doesnt think its MBD but we did test calcium and give a calcium shot. 5-on and off constipation (not going for a week or more) with loose stools, sometimes with yellowy mucus been treating with metronidazole, despite negative fecal tests. 6-He does a weird breathing thing that almost looks like an URI but the vet says his lungs are clear and there is no mucus in the nose or excess saliva (it almost looks like hes huffing / forcing air out and his tongue will twitch subtly (will include a video of this). 7-a lump on his chest / some scales on his belly / beard are dark. Vet said the lump is in the skin and that its not yellow fungus and to scrub with a Betadine solution twice a week but that has not had any effect. 8-He walks weird now almost as if he is off balance or drunk, vet said it could be some sort of mass on the brain but theres no way to test for that? 9-shedding takes forever and only sheds in tiny spots at a time. 10-he seems to lose weight whenever he stops the metronidazole. 11-his mouth is pale sometimes but he is not anemic.

Some of those issues have been happening on and off for years and I noticed it during covid lockdowns as I was home all day and staring at him more (lol).

We have been giving him metronidazole on and off for several months which does seem to help with the poops and weight lost. He was giving a vitamin B injection and a calcium injection in September. The vet told me to consider giving more vitamin A but that he doesnt do injections anymore due to risk of overdose. I have been giving a carrot to the crickets more regularly.

Two weeks ago was the last visit where we noticed he had lost a lot of weight (about 20g in two weeks since his last visit)and had very gross poops, we did a follow up test of bloodwork and CBC as well as tested a fresh poop for parasites. He said there is no way for him to see if he has a mass on his brain because there is no tiny reptile MRI equipment and that i would have to travel to a city that is several hours away to have them test. Its been very bad weather and last vet trip was hell due to the heavy snowfall. My car isnt great in the snow and I dont want to have to keep bringing him to the vet because its a long drive and it puts stress on him which i am sure doesnt help. I am willing to seek another vet if needed but the closest is many hours drive away. I do trust the current vets opinion but it seems hes at a loss for what to do now and i dont have an actual answer on what is wrong.

The vet said that his calcium was at the "low end of normal "(8.42 vs the 8.6-18 normal) and his phosphorous was also low (2.17 vs the 2.1-10.6 normal range). the bloodwork showed he is not anemic and there is "no evidence of infection". He said the liver and everything else is normal.

He took his last dose of metronidazole this morning and it does appear to have helped him gain 13 grams back and he has pooped yesterday and today and it looks a fair bit better (still kinda mushy) .

I took a video of him doing the weird breathing thing this morning:
is this normal thermoregulation and im being paranoid or is something off about it? He does this on and off regularly for at least the last year.

Also including some photos of his dark scales / lump on his chest:

View attachment 95014

View attachment 95015

Sorry for the long message but I worry a lot about my old man and want to make sure hes getting the best care possible especially at his age.
A lot of those symptoms to me are indicative of too low a calcium level. How often and how much calcium are you giving Drake? In addition, what is his substrate in his cage? Is it carpet, tile, sand, other? Loose substrate is not recommended for any bearded dragon as it can impact them.
Our dragon occasionally gets a thing in or near his eye. His vet gave us special eye drops for when I happens. However, I have found that the eye issue typically arises when his light is past due for replacement (Ours is way overdue, but that's because I ordered the wrong size ). I need to re-order and put the new one in.
If you haven't talked with @Drache613 yet, she is ideal helper. She is the reason our current dragon will be 13 (I think- I always forget and have to come look here to remind me) at the end of March
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Darius ate 4 crickets with plain CA and arugula yesterday. He ate plain chicory leaves with collard greens for his salad today. He is standing and basking right now on his cork tube.

Our appointment is at 1:30PM tomorrow (Vet is only in on Fridays). He has a couple scales on his back that are greyish in colour and I want to have them tested. He had a well formed poop yesterday and I put it in the fridge to bring to be tested tomorrow. I want to go over the bloodwork from December 3rd at the appointment as well.
Can you post the area with the greyish scales ? It's usually nothing at all and I don't want you to have an uncomfortable test or scraping done for no reason. His diet sounds good right now, he's improved very much since the start of this thread ! And good for you to review the past bloodtest with what you'll see on this one. You can post them here too if you like.
 

Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
Can you post the area with the greyish scales ? It's usually nothing at all and I don't want you to have an uncomfortable test or scraping done for no reason. His diet sounds good right now, he's improved very much since the start of this thread ! And good for you to review the past bloodtest with what you'll see on this one. You can post them here too if you like.
There are pictures earlier in this post, I will take more tomorrow when I take him out of the cage for the vet, I dont want to disturb him right now.

His diet is always like this, so I believe that it was the lights being a bit past due for replacement that was the main problem for the low calcium / absorption issue.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
If you mean the scales on his belly, those are fine. Older dragons can develop small patches of dry looking scales, like we as humans can develop much different looking skin patterns as we age. Just be sure there are no wet areas in his tank. If he has a water bowl that he soaks in or if you take him out to soak him, skip that unless he actually drinks, then you can do it once a week for 5 minutes.
And his back looks fine, nothing of concern there.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Let us know how the vet visit goes!
Lighting would be the easiest fix, so hopefully
that will help out with the symptoms right now.

Tracie
 

Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
Hello,

Let us know how the vet visit goes!
Lighting would be the easiest fix, so hopefully
that will help out with the symptoms right now.

Tracie

The vet visit went great! The vet said that Darius has improved significantly since seeing him Dec 3rd and agrees that the lighting was the issue. I replaced all the lights for the reptiles on Dec 31st. I now can say "new year, new lights" to help remind me to swap it out ( in addition to the phone reminders and stuff)

He pooped on the table of the vet (as is tradition) and the vet said it looks great, well formed, good urate and nothing concerning there so hes not going to bother with another fecal test (last one was clear).

Going over the previous bloodwork, everything was normal except the calcium was slightly below normal. He said it would make sense that the calcium shot we gave earlier didnt absorb properly if he wasnt getting the right UV levels.

He weighed in at 470g which the vet said is a good weight. No medications will be required this time.

I was instructed to give calcium with vitamin D3 in it once a week for one month and then return to my normal dusting schedule.

Last visit Darius was dark, flat and didnt move much. Today it was a struggle for me to keep Darius still because he was trying to climb onto me / the vet. It is so great to see him acting like himself again :)
 

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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Good to hear the bloodwork + everything is good now and that he got through the long months on meds. and low uvb. I know you're happy + relieved. :)
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is terrific news for Darius, he has come a long
way & is still improving! Proper UVB lighting has
everything to do with helping maintain optimal health. Hopefully he will continue to improve & with proper calcium supplementation it will support his system.
He does look pretty happy there! He is most likely happy because he doesn't have to take anymore medications!
That is correct, his calcium wasn't absorbing properly without adequate UVB exposure.

Keep us posted on his progress.

Tracie
 

Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
Hello,

That is terrific news for Darius, he has come a long
way & is still improving! Proper UVB lighting has
everything to do with helping maintain optimal health. Hopefully he will continue to improve & with proper calcium supplementation it will support his system.
He does look pretty happy there! He is most likely happy because he doesn't have to take anymore medications!
That is correct, his calcium wasn't absorbing properly without adequate UVB exposure.

Keep us posted on his progress.

Tracie
Hi Tracie,
Unfortunately Darius seems to be doing a bit worse now, hes dropped down to 545grams today ( I weigh him weekly and last week was the vet's scale weighed him at 470g) my scale could be off by about 5 grams but still has lost 10 grams in one week despite eating normally and his poop is well formed not loose.His urate was purple-ish this morning.
When I took him out to bathe him (he had poop all on his tail / back end) he was doing the head tremors really badly, at one point his entire head was vibrating very strongly, its quite alarming to see.

Now down to 454 hes officially lost 100 grams (he was 555 at his biggest) I know he may have been overweight but now i think he looks super skinny and I feel so helpless.

Ive attached photos of him and his poop from today.
 

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Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
Since I was able to get such a fresh poop sample I looked at it under under a microscope and I was able to see ova of some sort. I do believe it is pinworms; I am no expert so I took photos of the eggs and will be bringing the other half of his poop for them to test more thoroughly at the vet. The weight loss mixed with the occasional sightings of frank blood in his stool we are deciding to treat the worms.

The vet was able to squeeze us in for 3pm today, we are doing a calcium injection for the tremors and will be treating the pinworms with fenbendazole.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Treating for pinworms will be fine, using Fenbendazole/Panacur. It is very safe & it should take care of
the pinworms, especially since the load of worms seems to be causing some blood.
I hope the calcium injection helps for the tremors. Remember, calcium injections are strong so it isn't
recommended to get many of them. I would go to a liquid calcium after this, to help out.
Let us know how things are going.

Tracie
 

Lainezor

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Darius
hes been refusing food once a week and spending more time inside his cave but his tremors are not nearly as bad now and when i weighed him yesterday it said 454 which means at least he has not lost any weight. He had a very loose stool but i think its because i gave him 3 hornworms and 3 silkworms the day before.

It really stresses me out that hes not in the light or eating as hes not one to go into brumation. I will try not to disturb him but im worried hes not getting enough light when its only about 1 or 2 uvi on his tail (only his tail is sticking out of his hide so its getting low levels of uvb)
 

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