A bunch of random symptoms, the vet is lost

[AHBD]

He looks really good ! Don't bother with the vet, he gave him meds. that very possibly gave him the excess tremors anyway. He seems to be doing better and his weight and body condition look fine.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree. While he has lost a bit of weight his body condition looks good! His hip bones are not protruding
& his fat pads look fine as well.
I wouldn't want him to become overmedicated & he has had plenty of medication rounds already so just keep
working with him & keep him well hydrated for now.

Tracie

 

[Lainezor]

Hello,

I agree. While he has lost a bit of weight his body condition looks good! His hip bones are not protruding
& his fat pads look fine as well.
I wouldn't want him to become overmedicated & he has had plenty of medication rounds already so just keep
working with him & keep him well hydrated for now.

Tracie

Overall his behavior is improving, better colours, constipation seems to have went away, head tremors are barely there now and hes is back to basking on his own and acting like he should be. I would say he is better now, but, he is steadily losing weight. I weighed him this morning and he is down to 464 grams. The metronidazole does seem to help put weight back on him but im worried that its more harmful than helpful to keep giving him the meds if he doesnt have a parasite overgrowth.

If he wasnt slowly losing weight over time I wouldnt be worried as hes acting fine, but I know that reptiles will hide their sickness really well.

Should I go back to the vet? I have a feeling he will send me back with more metronidazole. Its a 3 hour drive and I am not sure if the stress will be worth it? Also it is expected to dip into -10C or colder weather next week and the vet I normally see is only in on Monday and Tuesday and sometimes Friday.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is a hard call. Since he is still losing weight, that isn't good. Is there a vet any closer for you?
You are right, they disguise illness well. What is he eating right now? I would hesitate on overmedicating
too, that can really be hard on them.
Has his beard been dark at all, or normal in color?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[AHBD]

He actually looks perfect right now. Alert, not bony but not chubby, legs and tail base have good muscle tone. A vet trip isn't needed, and it's actually dangerous for you to drive 3 hours in the frigid conditions.

So is he eating now, if so how much ?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree, he does look good & I don't think he needs a vet visit unless he starts acting ill.
I wouldn't let him lose more weight though. He looks good where he is now.
It is too cold for a vet visit unless it was just a few minutes away. He doesn't need anymore
medication though!

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Lainezor]

Hello,

That is a hard call. Since he is still losing weight, that isn't good. Is there a vet any closer for you?
You are right, they disguise illness well. What is he eating right now? I would hesitate on overmedicating
too, that can really be hard on them.
Has his beard been dark at all, or normal in color?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

My vet is now offering Fridays at a clinic in my city! I made an appointment for this friday at 1:30pm.

He is normal colours, not pale and isnt black bearding at all. The sides of his beard have turned darker from time to time but he hasnt actually given a full black beard. Its hard to know if hes sleeping more because he is older or if something is wrong but he does sleep for a few hours of each day, usually in the middle of his cage around the 75-85F areas.

I keep messing around with the lights to try to get better temp range because it seems like he doesnt want to be directly under the basking spot(im assuming the basking spot is too hot around 95-110) and the cool end is too cold (68-72F).

I think part of the issue is that my vet knows me to be "the reptile guru" and assumes that my husbandry is always spot on. He has seen me over the last 12 years with several rescued lizards from chameleons to leopard geckos and I have nursed several very sick reptiles back to health. Also he knows that I have studied reptile vet textbooks and know way more than the average beardie mom. Also he is the only vet in my province for several hours drive.

Last trip (dec 3), he suggested that Darius could have a tumor but didnt see or feel anything during the exam and lacks the equipment for further testing like MRI or ultrasound. I think it could be much simpler than that, Darius isnt getting the ideal lights which is causing him not to absorb calcium properly. His UVB was 14 months old when i replaced it recently due to a mistake in reminder not being set.

Both times his blood was taken over the last few months he showed low calcium and even low phosphorous while everything else was in the normal range. I think Darius has NSHP caused by weak UVB exposure and this may be a case of us ignoring the most obvious thing it could be because we both assumed the lighting was right. He is getting more UVB now and hopefully that will help.

If I can get a good sample I can do the fecal tests at home, I have a microscope and everything to be able to check for pinworm eggs and stuff but I havent seen anything on him or any of the reptiles at all. His last fecal at the vet (i still send them out to the pros) also came back negative.

He doesnt do the weird breathing thing anymore at least. The main issues I worry about are the head tremors (they seem to come and go) and the weight loss. He does also randomly have muscle twitches too.

He is still eating well but looks so skinny. On friday, he got 4 crickets with a multivitamin (repashy calcium plus lod) turnip greens and endive. I gave him collard greens, red bell pepper and arugula yesterday with 4 crickets (dusted with plain calcium) today I gave him some spinach for the first time and chicory leaves. I have been trying out many more gutload products for the crickets (repashy superload and grassland grazer gel)and may be overdoing it on trying too many new things. I have not been able to find liquid calcium or probiotics for him but will ask the vet next time we are in.

He went up a little bit in weight the next day??? Yet he looks so flat and deflated. At his biggest weight (2ish years ago) he was 566g (I admit he was overweight) and now hes down an entire 100 grams. You can clearly see his hips and shoulder blades now, especially in the second pic im attaching to this.

This is all so stressful, some days he looks better and some days he looks awful. I have been burying myself in research so I am armed with information for our vet trip. i will admit im not taking the best care of myself as I am hyperfocusing this issue and reading vet textbooks all day to the point i forget to eat. I know i wont be much help if i get sick but i can help but worry about him so much. thanks for the support and advice, its helping me stay sane <3

 

[AHBD]

His weight and diet are excellent ! He is NOW in the proper body condition whereas he was overweight before. Even though we don't want our animals to lose weight due to illness, his weight is fine now. Eating greens along with 4 large crickets every few days is fine.
Although he was having some health problems he seems to have reached a reasonable degree of " wellness" compared to his previous symptoms. There may be more wrong with him but remember, aggressive or prolonged treatment or meds. can cause other unwanted problems for our older pet.

 

[Lainezor]

His weight and diet are excellent ! He is NOW in the proper body condition whereas he was overweight before. Even though we don't want our animals to lose weight due to illness, his weight is fine now. Eating greens along with 4 large crickets every few days is fine.
Although he was having some health problems he seems to have reached a reasonable degree of " wellness" compared to his previous symptoms. There may be more wrong with him but remember, aggressive or prolonged treatment or meds. can cause other unwanted problems for our older pet.

This is great to hear you say

It doesnt concern you that his hip bones are visible? You can see them / feel them now. (its more clear in the first pic and last pic from my last message) In some positions like on the branch I can clearly see the entire shape of his shoulder blades. I know his muscles will atrophy as he ages but he looks like skin and bones to me now.

I will tell the vet that I dont want to give him metronidazole again and explain my concerns about over medicating him and the side effects.I watched a very great 4 hour long interview on youtube with Beardie Vet and he said that some parasites are beneficial to the dragon and help with digestion so I dont want to keep wiping everything out.

 

[AHBD]

No, he looks good, not bony. Very acceptable size + weight for an 11 year old.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

For his age, it is impressive that he is in such good condition. His hipbones really aren't prominent. His
weight looks acceptable, really.
Since he is still eating that is a great sign. Just continue to support his nutrition by offering plenty of greens
& veggies, with some protein.
Since his calcium was a bit low, you can consider increasing his intake of that one more time per week but
improving his UVB status should help with calcium uptake. Phosphorus levels should be lower than the
calcium levels to avoid malabsorption.
They often carry worms & parasite levels, but, in low levels. There is a baseline of good bacteria flora
that is beneficial for them. If you wipe all of the good bacteria out then it can hurt digestion too.

Let us know how things are going.
Tracie

 

[Lainezor]

Hello,

For his age, it is impressive that he is in such good condition. His hipbones really aren't prominent. His
weight looks acceptable, really.
Since he is still eating that is a great sign. Just continue to support his nutrition by offering plenty of greens
& veggies, with some protein.
Since his calcium was a bit low, you can consider increasing his intake of that one more time per week but
improving his UVB status should help with calcium uptake. Phosphorus levels should be lower than the
calcium levels to avoid malabsorption.
They often carry worms & parasite levels, but, in low levels. There is a baseline of good bacteria flora
that is beneficial for them. If you wipe all of the good bacteria out then it can hurt digestion too.

Let us know how things are going.
Tracie

Thanks, Tracie I really appreciate your comments, I am very passionate about reptiles and giving them the best husbrandy possible. Maybe in another life if I wasnt so darn squeamish and sensitive I would have become an exotics vet myself.

Today he ate 2 discord roaches with plain calcium powder and salad was a mix of mustard greens and endive. He did the head tremors a little bit when holding his head certain ways. He is standing up against his cork tube and basking right now

 

[Lainezor]

Today, I've been running a space heater in my apartment to keep the temps up, we are in a polar vortex and its between -12C and -30C outside. The heat is on for my apartment but struggles to keep up due to the fact its a boiler / radiator heat. Luckily I work from home so I can stay here and monitor the temps for everything. The reptile room is warm enough now (it may have dipped as low as 66F overnight with all the lights off). Luckily it will only be -6C or so on Friday and the drive to the vet is not far from me this time.

Darius is a normal colour and no black beard. I fed him escarole and collard greens. He ate a bit less than normal today(maybe because he was cold). A few hours after breakfast he had a poop that was very watery. It soaked into the substrate / paper towel and the liquid was clear like water. The poop itself was soft and a bit off colour (yellowish) urate was white / normal. Hopefully I will get a poop from him that isnt liquid before Friday, I took a pic of it before I cleaned it to show the vet and can upload here if it may be useful.

 

[AHBD]

Do you have in mind what you want the vet to do if they say " let's do Xray,MRI, bloodwork, give shots, etc ? When was the last time they did bloodwork because if a beardie develops the gastric neuroendocrine cancer their glucose levels are usualy sky high. So that would have been an indicator the last time you had bloodwork done for Darius.

 

[Lainezor]

Do you have in mind what you want the vet to do if they say " let's do Xray,MRI, bloodwork, give shots, etc ? When was the last time they did bloodwork because if a beardie develops the gastric neuroendocrine cancer their glucose levels are usualy sky high. So that would have been an indicator the last time you had bloodwork done for Darius.

He got a calcium shot and a vitamin B shot a few months ago when the vet saw low calcium levels and he was being dark and staying in the cool end. He thinks that the calcium absorption is being affected by a mass but he doesnt have the tools for an MRI or Ultrasound. There may be some clinic which does have these tools but it will be several hours drive from me and I dont know if its worth the stress on Darius.

The Vet doesnt think that the mass would show on an X ray. I want to avoid any medications unless absolutely necessary but I am willing to do any diagnostic tests that may be helpful.

Last bloodwork was December 3rd, 2024. The vet did not mention anything about the glucose being high. He said it was "fairly normal" bloodwork with calcium and phosphorus being on the very lowest end of normal. I will ask for a copy of all the bloodwork results. I do want to see if his bloodwork has improved since december; will likely have another blood draw for him on friday, he seems pretty unbothered during the blood being taken at least