7 1/2 year old "male" layed eggs tonight!!!!!

[lizardgrrl]

When I picked Thorn and Spike last year, her owner of the previous three years said that Thorn was a male. She got them from someone who said Thorn was male, and Spike female. When I picked them up, Thorn was seven years old, Spike, five years old. They were not housed together in those three years but vet checked several times, and the assumption on their sexes remained the same. Thorn was brumating at the time I brought her home, but a brief inspection left me wondering about "his" sex. :dontknow: Femoral pores not well-defined. No sign of hemipene bulges. :? Maybe this is age, but this lizard is beautiful, healthy, weighty, and completely curious about the world around her in her brief interludes when I would wake her to do wellness checks. She has been up since the end of January, acting like a female that wants to breed. She has developed a big appetite, been putting on weight, and now she wants to dig. I've set her in a dig box tonight, and she is having a field day! :laughhard: If she is a he, she the strangest he I've ever seen! :laughing6: If there are eggs forming they are still small, nowhere near the sizes that Astarte and Nef laid last year, but I believe I'm beginning to feel small bumps in her belly. :roll: I'm presuming they are infertile. What is the oldest anyone knows of a female laying eggs, fertile or infertile? :shock:

 

[LJean]

I'm not sure about the ages for laying. LOL....

It makes me want to double check Oscar!

 

[Kagome100]

mmm i dont think its safe for a female after there 5 years old but who knows.

 

[lizardgrrl]

mmm i dont think its safe for a female after there 5 years old but who knows.

She has not been bred, nor would I consider breeding her, it is simply that she seems to be demonstrating that she has the interest, and possibly the equipment to lay eggs, after being considered a male for so many years. She did not lay eggs or show any interest in doing so in her previous home, where the only other dragon was also female. She is now in a household with two males who are constantly showing off what guys they are, and complaining to me that I am hidng women from them. :roll: Fib and Kang are very active right now, but also Diver, Galileo and Thoth are all capable of showing off their hormone levels, given a whim, a breath of air, drop of a hat, and I am sure Thorn, even without direct contact, has some scent of these wacky guys! A female will generate eggs, regardless of being bred or not, but they are usually at least a year or two younger than Thorn, from what I have read. So far, everything I've read suggests that at seven they are not generally capable of producing eggs, with six being the oldest that eggs are normally generated. If she does produce eggs, I presume it is akin to women who hit menopause in their mid to late 50's (like my family) rather than their late 40's or even mid-thirties like my childhood friend's family. If dragon life expectancies are increasing as a result of better husbandry, (older books give lifespans of 6-10 years, but dragons 15-20 years old are appearing, with 15 year old dragons more common than previously thought!) will they produce eggs at older ages as their lifespans increase? Thorn seems to be healthy otherwise, so if she lays eggs, it is simply a question of upper age limits for females producing eggs, and what is the norm, the exception, and is there a upper age that anyone can confirm?

 

[lizardgrrl]

O.K., earlier, Thorn asked for the dig box again. I picked her up, felt her belly, the lumps are indistinct, more like large, soft peas than the fat table grapes size that Astarte and Nefertiti set down last year. I put her in the dig box, thinking she'll dig awhile, then ask to go back to her tank like she did before. She dug a long time and I've been back and forth with other things. She quieted down, and I figured, she's ready to go back to her tank. No!!!!! She's laying eggs!!!!! :shock: NOW!!!!! I've called a family friend, who is a recent Doctor of Herpetology, and he says that there is no upper age limit for laying eggs that he is aware of, and as long as they are healthy, they will continue to produce eggs, whether bred or not. He will double check on that and get back to me. Her eggs look smaller than Astarte's or Nef's, but I would be wildly surprised if any were fertile, as she has never been with a male in the past four years, very probably her entire life.

Well, it looks like twelve eggs total, but I'll keep a close eye on her tonight, in case she needs to lay any more. She's had her bath, and her weight is such, that it hardly seems like she's laid eggs. These are about an 1 1/4 inches long, but very thin, not even a half inch across. I want to observe them, my curiousity on the biology of infertile eggs, but expect they will all collapse by morning.

 

[sunkist]

Wow... I just have to say wow... the things males do to us.

 

[lizardgrrl]

Thorn dropped two more slugs (infertile eggs)in the towel after her bath last night. Again, please note, she has not been bred! These eggs are infertile, because no male was involved! I would not have considered breeding her due to her age, but that does not prevent a female from forming and laying eggs. I kept her next to me all night, so any egg laying or other problems would definitely have my immediate attention. She slept well, then wolfed down about 1/3 cup of silkworms on waking. She is such a sweetie, and has been a source of great amusement for the housemates, as she is the one who consistently climbs up the back of my head, tangling through my hair until she emerges on top of my head, her favorite basking spot! :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5: :love5:

 

[saxondragon]

Ahh, so this is what you meant to watch out for. Since my two dragons were together. Scary thought! Eek!

Must have been very intriguing to watch/experience. I usually hate science, but I think this part is really interesting.

 

[lizardgrrl]

Hi Cyn!

Yes, a female dragon can lay eggs at anytime, regardless of whether a male is involved, same as chickens. Obviously, if a male is not involved, the eggs will not be fertile, but as your sweeties were previously housed together, you may find you have fertile eggs. It is up to you, whether you destroy them or raise them, but be warned, there is a lot of expense and care in raising baby beardies, and Dai and Cerys may be siblings, which can create congenital defects in the babies. Infertile eggs tend to be white or yellowish, turning a dense yellow and also smaller than fertile eggs which are translucent white with possible pink or red veining showing before the shells turn opaque white.

I have photos from Astarte laying her eggs, but I think they were pretty dark. I tried taking some photos of Thorn and will try to get them posted after I get a disk this computer can read.