Behaviour changed when changed set up a bit; never done before

tedbubz

Member
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
Hi,

I don't know if I'm needlessly worrying or not but I feel like maybe something is wrong.

So on Friday 2/9/22 I changed his set up (added new walls and added one 75W exo terra intense bulb in the middle to create a higher ambient temp of 29°c/84°f opposed to the previous 27°c/80.6°f). First pic is old, 2nd pic is new.
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Since then he has been on the top of the bonsai driftwood a lot (his usual spots are the red resin rock and basking spots) and his body noticeably darkens, has spots of black on his beard, and has black on his belly. I've read that the beard and belly could be stress marks, and note that he has never had these marks before. He only does this when he's outdoors (something he doesn't like but trying to work on it).

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Before Friday's set up change his body has always been white:

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Please also note that I have changed set ups multiple times before and he has always been fine with it - no stress marks or anything.

However this is the first time I've added a second basking bulb. The second basking bulb yesterday was 100W (32°c/89.6°f), thought it was too hot for him so switched to 75W (29°c/84°f), but he still goes on the driftwood a lot and his stress marks are still present. The purpose with the basking bulb was to increase the ambient temp in the middle and to possibly help him with his appetite.

If I move him from the driftwood back to the basking spot he will pancake and his underside will be white again.

Also before the change he used to gape his mouth when basking (which I've read is a good sign, something aboht reaching his optimal temp?). But now he doesn't gape? Is this worrying?
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So to summarise:
- beardie changed his usual spot but always has black spotted beard and stress marks on belly.

- beardie does not gape anymore when basking.


I'm sorry for the long winded paragraphs, I just wanted to make sure I don't miss anything.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you and I hope the best for you and your beardies ❤
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
Maybe put it back the other way and see how he reacts? What i see in the pic doesn't look like stress marks though. The pic i attached is what they look like when stressed. It may just be he is cooler since he changed hangouts and is darkening up to warm up.
 

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tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
Maybe put it back the other way and see how he reacts? What i see in the pic doesn't look like stress marks though. The pic i attached is what they look like when stressed. It may just be he is cooler since he changed hangouts and is darkening up to warm up.
Sorry but what do you mean by put it back the other way? Do you mean go back to the enclosure set up previously? I can't do that since I already recycled the previous walls. Should I turn off the 2nd basking light then? If I do though the middle temp would go down to 27°c/80.6°f and I believe that is too low right? I can use a 100W ceramic heat emitter though in place of the 2nd basking spot if the light is the issue?

My beardie has the same stress marks/patterns on his belly (he has it when he's outdoors), it's just it hasn't progressed to that level yet in the pics because when I see that, I hold him for a bit and put him in his basking spot. Most of the time he gets back to normal (the white belly). Though I've never seen these on his beard. Mine just gets black.

So you don't think he feels stressed/uncomfortable anywhere? If he wanted to bask wouldn't he move to his actual basking spot?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, what do you think about him not gaping anymore when he's basking. Back then the temps were ~43°c/109°c, now it's 38°c - 45°c (100°c - 113°c)?

Sorry for asking so many questions. Just worried for my lil guy. Thank you for the reaponse, appreciate it 😊
 
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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
No such thing as to many questions.
As long as his basking is the correct temp, anything in the 80's should be ok, but i do agree that is a but low. That is the one draw back of the big enclosures, they can be hard to keep warm.
But like i was saying as long as his basking and uvb are correct, your pretty much free to experiment with every thing else till you find what works for your beardie. They all have their on preferences And it takes a little while to figure them out. The che is less likely to draw him out if his normal basking area than another bulb, maybe try if and see if he mives back into his basking bulb. Another option would be to get the area under the new bulb up to normal basking temp so he can bask in either area, but that could elevate ambient temp, just monitor it.
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
No such thing as to many questions.
As long as his basking is the correct temp, anything in the 80's should be ok, but i do agree that is a but low. That is the one draw back of the big enclosures, they can be hard to keep warm.
But like i was saying as long as his basking and uvb are correct, your pretty much free to experiment with every thing else till you find what works for your beardie. They all have their on preferences And it takes a little while to figure them out. The che is less likely to draw him out if his normal basking area than another bulb, maybe try if and see if he mives back into his basking bulb. Another option would be to get the area under the new bulb up to normal basking temp so he can bask in either area, but that could elevate ambient temp, just monitor it.
Got it, thank you so much, really. I'll start doing some adjustments tomorrow as I do believe that his main basking temp and UVB are good.

I recognise your name in a few of my posts asking for help and just wanted to say I appreciate it very much. You're very kind and helpful as well as this site. I hope I'll be much more knowledgable one day so I can help others too hahah
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
No such thing as to many questions.
As long as his basking is the correct temp, anything in the 80's should be ok, but i do agree that is a but low. That is the one draw back of the big enclosures, they can be hard to keep warm.
But like i was saying as long as his basking and uvb are correct, your pretty much free to experiment with every thing else till you find what works for your beardie. They all have their on preferences And it takes a little while to figure them out. The che is less likely to draw him out if his normal basking area than another bulb, maybe try if and see if he mives back into his basking bulb. Another option would be to get the area under the new bulb up to normal basking temp so he can bask in either area, but that could elevate ambient temp, just monitor it.
Hey,

Just wanted to let you know that I switched the 2nd basking bulb for a 100W ceramic heater and I believe that fixed it! No signs of stress at all, he's back to his normal self. Not sure why the lights were a problem. Maybe too much? Although I do have a lot of shady and dark areas 🤷‍♀️ Here are some photos I took today:
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Thank you heaps for pointing me in the right direction! I guess I was too worried to see such solutions myself hahah.

Also if you don't mind, is it bad that my beardie stopped gaping under the basking spot? He used to do it before the set up change but not anymore. Temps are ranged from 38°C - 45°C (100°F - 113°F) depending on where he lays. 🤔
 
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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Hey,

Just wanted to let you know that I switched the 2nd basking bulb for a 100W ceramic heater and I believe that fixed it! No signs of stress at all, he's back to his normal self. Not sure why the lights were a problem. Maybe too much? Although I do have a lot of shady and dark areas 🤷‍♀️
View attachment 73673

View attachment 73674

View attachment 73675

View attachment 73676

View attachment 73677

Thank you heaps for pointing me in the right direction! I guess I was too worried to see such solutions myself hahah.

Also if you don't mind, is it bad that my beardie stopped gaping under the basking spot? He used to do it before the set up change but not anymore. Temps are ranged from 38°C - 45°C (100°F - 113°F) depending on where he lays. 🤔
Are his stress marks going away? the 45 C is too hot --- you want his surface basking temps 105-110 F for him --- too hot of temps can cause stress marks - the CHE is ok for getting ambient temps up but you want surface basking temps w/ a white basking bulb --
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
Are his stress marks going away? the 45 C is too hot --- you want his surface basking temps 105-110 F for him --- too hot of temps can cause stress marks - the CHE is ok for getting ambient temps up but you want surface basking temps w/ a white basking bulb --
Hi, yes thankfully the stress marls are completely gone.

The thing is I don't know how to lower it besides providing multiple layers. I use two digital thermometers and they measure average 43°C (109°F). It gets to 45°C/113°C when the glass doors are closed too long but when I open it for some time it can go down to 40°C (104°F). I use a temp gun too and it's also around there.

However I have a hard foam ledge where he can bask too and the highest it's gone is 49°C/120°F and when measured with a temp gun it's higher. The thing is though when I touch it, it's not hot at all. Less than warm, and less hot than the slate rocks I used which when measured show lower temps. Could this be because it's foam? So it absorbs heat maybe?

20220902_190737.jpg


I'm not sure how else to lower temps except providing many layers because I have my UVB tube on top of mesh so I have to provide a higher basking surface. I also can't mount UVB inside because he always climbs onto the UVB tube and basking bulb cage (he likes to jump and climb everywhere) so I was scared he wpuld injure himself one day.

20220717_112848.jpg


If you have any tips or if I missed something I would love some advice. Thank you for your comment!
 

xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
I'm glad he is back to normal. He looks really alert and happy in those pics. The one on the uvb cracked me up "hrrmm i knew this uvb light was multipurpose"
There are a couple ways to lower the basking temp, you could use a lower wattage bulb, or you could use one of those light stand to raise the bulb off the screen a bit. Since you were trying to get ambient temps up a bit the stand is probably the better option. As you raise the bulb then the light/heat will fan out a bit further, that might raise the ambient while lowering the basking. The foam will dissipate the heat a lot faster than the slate. That's why we all recommend the probes, they will give you the true temps of the light while the ir guns are trying to read the material and don't take the actual temp of the light into account.
Also thank you for the kind words, it won't be long till your here helping newb's to figure it out also. It's hard to find good info, so much on the internet is conflicting, so there is a steep learning curve. This site is full of people that want to help, I'm sure your gonna be one of them to. :)
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Hi, yes thankfully the stress marls are completely gone.

The thing is I don't know how to lower it besides providing multiple layers. I use two digital thermometers and they measure average 43°C (109°F). It gets to 45°C/113°C when the glass doors are closed too long but when I open it for some time it can go down to 40°C (104°F). I use a temp gun too and it's also around there.

However I have a hard foam ledge where he can bask too and the highest it's gone is 49°C/120°F and when measured with a temp gun it's higher. The thing is though when I touch it, it's not hot at all. Less than warm, and less hot than the slate rocks I used which when measured show lower temps. Could this be because it's foam? So it absorbs heat maybe?

View attachment 73680

I'm not sure how else to lower temps except providing many layers because I have my UVB tube on top of mesh so I have to provide a higher basking surface. I also can't mount UVB inside because he always climbs onto the UVB tube and basking bulb cage (he likes to jump and climb everywhere) so I was scared he wpuld injure himself one day.

View attachment 73681

If you have any tips or if I missed something I would love some advice. Thank you for your comment!
Ok temp guns can be off - the most accurate is the digital probe that is the one you want to use -- you may want to use a lower wattage bulb -- go that route and then we can go from there -
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
I'm glad he is back to normal. He looks really alert and happy in those pics. The one on the uvb cracked me up "hrrmm i knew this uvb light was multipurpose"
There are a couple ways to lower the basking temp, you could use a lower wattage bulb, or you could use one of those light stand to raise the bulb off the screen a bit. Since you were trying to get ambient temps up a bit the stand is probably the better option. As you raise the bulb then the light/heat will fan out a bit further, that might raise the ambient while lowering the basking. The foam will dissipate the heat a lot faster than the slate. That's why we all recommend the probes, they will give you the true temps of the light while the ir guns are trying to read the material and don't take the actual temp of the light into account.
Also thank you for the kind words, it won't be long till your here helping newb's to figure it out also. It's hard to find good info, so much on the internet is conflicting, so there is a steep learning curve. This site is full of people that want to help, I'm sure your gonna be one of them to. :)
Ooh that makes so much sense! I didn't know what you meant by light stand so I searched it up and omg mindblown. I will definitely be buying one of these, didn't even know they were a thing 😅

Literally thank you and KarrieRee. You've both helped me so much ☺️
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
Ok temp guns can be off - the most accurate is the digital probe that is the one you want to use -- you may want to use a lower wattage bulb -- go that route and then we can go from there -
Got it! I have a 75W exo terra and will use that tomorrow and try adjusting the slate rocks along with it to get the temp right since last time I used it, it was a bit too low.

So should I aim for my beardie gaping under the basking spot to know the temp is perfect? As in, keep adjusting till he gapes?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Got it! I have a 75W exo terra and will use that tomorrow and try adjusting the slate rocks along with it to get the temp right since last time I used it, it was a bit too low.

So should I aim for my beardie gaping under the basking spot to know the temp is perfect? As in, keep adjusting till he gapes?
No use the digital probe -- go by that -- hes gonna gape when he meets his happy place for temp -- let him do that -- you just worry about getting the surface basking temps for him to pick and choose
 

tedbubz

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Ted (1 year 2 mo) Western Bearded Dragon - Pogona minor minor)
No use the digital probe -- go by that -- hes gonna gape when he meets his happy place for temp -- let him do that -- you just worry about getting the surface basking temps for him to pick and choose
👌 Got it, I will aim for 105°F - 110°F like you said. Again, thank you so much for the help! 🙏🙇‍♀️
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
👌 Got it, I will aim for 105°F - 110°F like you said. Again, thank you so much for the help! 🙏🙇‍♀️
When he gets to be about 6 months old hes not going to want that hot of a temp -- then your gonna need to adjust it to 95-100--- so just watch his behavior and see what he does ---
 

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