Frank needs your help!!

[kav]

I would say the meds are causing the not eating- as long as his basking temps are good along w/ uvb I would keep track of his weight and keep feeding him

The last dose of meds were a little over a week ago. We will continue to keep weighing / feeding him. Basking temps / UVB all good.

Thanks!

 

[kav]

It's been a while so I wanted to give an update on Frank.

Frank is still refusing any food. I continue with my slurry of crushed up fresh bugs (superworns, crickets & dubia roaches with a little butternut squash baby food to make it flow through the syringe).

Brief history: Frank was diagnosed with pinworm and coccidia both of which he's been through the treatments. He tested negative for coccodia but still positive for pinworn. We when through a second treatment for the pinworm about a month ago. We are waiting 2 months before doing another fecal test as per the Vets last correspondence. Frank is active and is pooping no problem. It is watery, not super smelly. I think he releases the extra water from his system that comes from the slurry.

What I have noticed recently as I try and hand feed him a worm or strawberry is it looks like he is in pain when he chews? Could this be the reason Frank is refusing food?

It is making us very sad to see him unhappy, we just want him on the road to recovery.

Thanks,

Paul, Lily and Frank.

 

[KarrieRee]

It's been a while so I wanted to give an update on Frank.

Frank is still refusing any food. I continue with my slurry of crushed up fresh bugs (superworns, crickets & dubia roaches with a little butternut squash baby food to make it flow through the syringe).

Brief history: Frank was diagnosed with pinworm and coccidia both of which he's been through the treatments. He tested negative for coccodia but still positive for pinworn. We when through a second treatment for the pinworm about a month ago. We are waiting 2 months before doing another fecal test as per the Vets last correspondence. Frank is active and is pooping no problem. It is watery, not super smelly. I think he releases the extra water from his system that comes from the slurry.

What I have noticed recently as I try and hand feed him a worm or strawberry is it looks like he is in pain when he chews? Could this be the reason Frank is refusing food?

It is making us very sad to see him unhappy, we just want him on the road to recovery.

Thanks,

Paul, Lily and Frank.

Post a pic of the inside of his mouth you may need help w/ this try using a q tip going in on the side of his mouth - need to see if there is a issue / sore etc inside-

 

[kav]

Here are some pictures of the inside of his mouth.

 

[KarrieRee]

Here are some pictures of the inside of his mouth.


View attachment 66000
View attachment 66001

View attachment 66002

Ok we need to have AHBD take a look and advise --- flagging to her
@AHBD

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your little one doing? I agree, while the Panacur is pretty mild & gentle on the system but the Albon is a bit hard on the system.
So I would recommend using a probiotic to help with the appetite. Or you can also get some molasses & mix that with water to help out
with the tummy & the appetite.
Are you also keeping him warm overnight to help boost his system, too?
The inside of his mouth looks normal. When you feed slurries the teeth can get a bit stained, or on the gum area. You can try to use a
soft toothbrush dipped in diluted betadine to clean the teeth & gums.

Tracie

 

[kav]

Thank you for the reply Tracie and Karrie.

Can you suggest a good probiotic for Frank? I rushed out this morning and picked up some Betadine, do you know a recommended dilution ratio? I diluted it 1:10 with water and put it on a Q-tip. I gently put the Q-tip to the side of Frank's mouth and he opened wide, he never does that. It was like he wanted me to wipe the inside of his mouth with the Betadine soaked Q-tip. He looked at me with relief in his eyes I swear! I will continue twice a day over the next week?

I will keep you updated

Thanks!

Paul, Lily and Frank.

 

[kav]

Wanted to give an update on Frank's situation.

We did another fecal test with our vet and the result came back positive for coccidian parasite Isospora. Frank has undergone his 6 day treatment with Albon (sulfadimethoxine) and his poop today was completely normal. We stripped his cage down and cleaned it with Ammonia, also steam cleaned it three times while he stayed in another small sterile tank for 3 nights. I will continue to steam clean his enclosure over the next month while he's out adventuring in the living room.

Frank is still not eating unaided. I feed him a slurry through a syringe every other day. It's a mix of chopped up worms and crickets with baby food to make it flow. He takes that well but need him to start eating on his own soon. This whole situation has been going on and off since August of 2021. We want to get Frank back to normal asap so I will run down his daily routine and environment settings incase we are doing anything wrong.

Frank is 18 months old. His lights come on at 8am. He basks and moves around the enclosure. We change the water daily and offer him fresh salads / live bugs which he refuses but we try. We leave them in the enclosure. We leave him be until lunch. I working from home so I take him out and we make my lunch together. We both sit outside in the sun and I eat lunch while be basks on my leg for 1 hour. I bring him inside and place him at the patio door with only the bug screen and he basks for another hour on his own. Once the sun has left that area I feed him and he adventures around, poops and finds a cold spot to sleep. I pick him up at 4pm and bring him in the office with me. He spends 2 hours on the heat pad I have setup for 97F surface temp that I check with a heat gun before I put him on it. At 6pm I take him back to his enclosure, offer him food, mist or bath him and he basks before lights out a 8pm.

He has a basking bulb 150w on a dimmer. The surface temp is 105F / ambient 95F in that area. He has a ceramic heat emitter (150w) on the other side hooked up to a thermostat to keep the cool side at 80F day and 70F night. There is a 24" 10.0 UVB strip mounted inside the enclosure. I removed all the loose substrate and I'm using paper towel until he's 100%. I think I will replace the substrate with tile or something similar once he's better. (it was 70% play sand 30% dirt which he liked very much, digging etc).

Current setup, Exo Terra 36" x 18" x 24"h.

Basking lamp left, Ceramic heat emitter right, thermostat, timer, heat gun, UVB inside.

24" Zoo Med 10.0 UVB inside.

Basking spot 105F

Franks favorite upper basking spot 86F

Cool side 82F

Thank you again for all the responses, we love Frank and only want the best for him.

- Paul, Lily & Frank.

 

[kav]

Post a pic of the inside of his mouth you may need help w/ this try using a q tip going in on the side of his mouth - need to see if there is a issue / sore etc inside-

Thanks Karrie, we did that and posted back in the thread a month or two ago. Let me post them again.

 

[kav]

Any thoughts on Franks routine / environment setup?

I really do think there is something wrong with his mouth. It seems very painful for him when we try to give him medicine which he doesn't want to open his mouth for and we have run the syringe on the side of his gums / teeth letting out a little of the liquid. I wonder if we inadvertently have caused some trauma there or he has mouth rot / infection in that area.

 

[SPandS]

His mouth looks fine. He could be keeping it closed because he doesn't like the meds. Even when you give him food he may be worried it could be meds and not want to open it. I personally would cut back on the bugs in the slurry. I understand you're worried about him not eating but if he keeps getting what he needs from the slurry he has no reason to eat in his own. I would do just greens and veggies in the slurry while offering live bugs a few times a week and see if that will get him to start wanting to eat them on his own. I'm not sure if you ever got probiotics but if not I would highly suggest you do. Those meds have done a number on his stomach and they will definitely help.

Also if he likes basking up that high I would move the light back on top of the mesh. It may just be the pic but it looks very close.

 

[kav]

His mouth looks fine. He could be keeping it closed because he doesn't like the meds. Even when you give him food he may be worried it could be meds and not want to open it. I personally would cut back on the bugs in the slurry. I understand you're worried about him not eating but if he keeps getting what he needs from the slurry he has no reason to eat in his own. I would do just greens and veggies in the slurry while offering live bugs a few times a week and see if that will get him to start wanting to eat them on his own. I'm not sure if you ever got probiotics but if not I would highly suggest you do. Those meds have done a number on his stomach and they will definitely help.

Also if he likes basking up that high I would move the light back on top of the mesh. It may just be the pic but it looks very close.

Thanks for the advise, will do! Do you recommend a probiotic?

 

[SPandS]

I've never used any but I heard people can use non dairy yogurt, acidophilus or bene bac.

 

[kav]

Another update on Frank. He still has not been eating on his own and it had been a couple of months so I took him back to the vet. I'm worried there is something wrong with his mouth. Mouth Rot or trauma caused by us giving him medication first time around. The vet examined Frank and wanted to confirm with a colleague on the condition of Frank's mouth. He though his mouth was ok but had some discoloration towards the back of his mouth and prescribed a course of antibiotics (Enrofloxacin Oral Suspension). Other medications seemed to not work for Frank's Coccidia so I was happy we were trying something else. We are nearing the end of the treatment.

I was also worried about Frank's enclosure with all the moulded rock walls and not being able to clean it easily (Although I did use Ammonia and steam cleaning multiple times), maybe he was getting re-infected? He's also getting bigger and outgrown the 36"x18"24" glass / rock enclosure. So I built Frank a new bigger 48"x23"x20" enclosure from Melamine (See pictures below).

It's so much easier to keep it clean and sterile. We will use newspaper and paper towels on the floor for now. All the decorations (my daughter picked out) can easily be removed back to a Melamine box for cleaning. His basking hammock is ambient 95 degrees. Thermostat keeps the cold side 80 degrees during the day and 70 at night. The UVB 10.0 strip in mounted inside. This new setup is only 1 day in.

Frank still refuses to eat on his own. only syringe feeding slurries which we really need to get away from. We understand he is still on medication and now we have introduced a whole new environment for Frank to get used to but hopefully these are all steps in the right direction.

What are your thoughts? Thanks for all the help!

Paul, Lily and Frank

 

[AHBD]

The enclosure is beautiful, well done ! Is there a uvb tube, I don't see one. I would not give him an antibiotic when there's really nothing wrong with his mouth, a yellowish color is normal for some dragons. Did you say that he never got over the coccidia though ?