New beardie mom with MBD baby

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New beardie mom with MBD baby, help!

Postby BrdEMamaG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:57 am

We have two baby beardies. Have had them for almost a month started out in ten gallon together with reptisun 10.0 fluorescent and 75watt heat with 103 degree basking area. Now in 75 gallon tank with divider. 160 watt mercury vapor bulbs on each side, 95 degree basking and 80 degrees cool side and at night. First meal offered is green veggies low in oxalic acid, crickets offered at least twice a day with one meal dusted in calcium, alternating calcium with D3 and without, and herptivite several times a week. One of them has always seemed healthy and is thriving, the other has always been a bit weaker and smaller, as he grows, I’m realizing he may have MBD. He does not want to support his body with his legs, and seems lethargic a lot. He will come down off his basking area and eat crickets but that is the only time I see him really using his legs. Is there more I can do? I assume he was already on the path to MBD when we got him from the pet store, I have researched a lot about lighting and supplementation and it seems I’m doing everything recommended to correct this, but he doesn’t seem to be improving much. Any help you experts can give would be great!! I’m new to this and want to do right by our beardies!!
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New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby BrdEMamaG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:15 am

We have two baby beardies. Have had them for almost a month started out in ten gallon together with reptisun 10.0 fluorescent and 75watt heat with 103 degree basking area. Now in 75 gallon tank with divider. 160 watt mercury vapor bulbs on each side, 95 degree basking and 80 degrees cool side and at night. First meal offered is green veggies low in oxalic acid, crickets offered at least twice a day with one meal dusted in calcium, alternating calcium with D3 and without, and herptivite several times a week. One of them has always seemed healthy and is thriving, the other has always been a bit weaker and smaller, as he grows, I’m realizing he may have MBD. He does not want to support his body with his legs, and seems lethargic a lot. He will come down off his basking area and eat crickets but that is the only time I see him really using his legs. Is there more I can do? I assume he was already on the path to MBD when we got him from the pet store, I have researched a lot about lighting and supplementation and it seems I’m doing everything recommended to correct this, but he doesn’t seem to be improving much. Any help you experts can give would be great!! I’m new to this and want to do right by our beardies!!
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby, help!

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:37 pm

Which MVB are you using? How far is it above their main basking areas? A 160 should be powerful enough to provide a good amount of UVB (depending on the brand) but the basking temps are a little low. It sounds like one was dominating resources and causing the other not to thrive. It's good that you have separated them and given them their own resources. It may be necessary to provide them each with a tank that size as they get older. You may want to consider using a T5 UVB light set at an appropriate distance (10-12'' in most cases) and a separate basking light so you can change temperature independently. It might also be good to introduce a calcium rich food source such as black soldier fly larvae and collard greens.
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby, help!

Postby BrdEMamaG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:42 pm

Collard greens are the staple and I alternate carrot shreds, blueberries, parsley with the collard greens and chop it all up and mix it with a little H20 and add some soaked Rep cal Juvenile diet just for more variety. I tried to separate them ASAP when I noticed the stronger one was starting to dominate the basking area and food, but it did take a few days for me to get all the bigger lights and supplies for the 75. How can I increase temp of basking area, ceramic heat or another bulb? My plan is to have a large tank for each when they get bigger. The MVBs are Exo-Terra Solar Glo 160W, and they’re 9 inches above the highest point of the basking area.
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby, help!

Postby BrdEMamaG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:52 pm

What brand of thermometer should I use? I just took a meat thermometer up there and it showed 100 but the crappy digital probe one I got at petsmart says 93 at the moment so I don’t know which it is.
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby, help!

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:44 pm

Those should be putting out quite a bit of UVB if they're working properly. I wouldn't move them closer. You can supplement heat using either a CHE or halogen flood light on a dimmer so you can fine tune the output (or use a dimming thermostat).

I don't think brand matters too much with the digital thermometers as long as you have the probe set in the basking area. You can probably test the thermometer in either a bowl of ice water which should be near freezing, or in a pot of boiling water which should be around the boiling point. You can spot check with an IR temp gun like this https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Lasergrip-774-Non-contact-Thermometer/dp/B00837ZGRY/ but I like to have a probe sitting on the basking surface and one on the cool side so I can see the gradient at a glance.
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby AHBD » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:19 pm

Hi there, sorry to hear about the baby. Are you sure it's not too hot ? 160 watts should not be TOO much heat but since the tank is divided I just wonder. It may be dehydration causing some symptoms. Try dripping water on his snout by a syringe or eyedropper just in case. You might also try some liquid calcium. You can get it here :

http://www.bug-de-lite.com/ccp8/index.p ... iq_Calcium

Can you post pics of your set up ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby BrdEMamaG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:44 pm

I mist them every day. One prefers to “drink” through misting, but this one prefers to drink during a warm bath which I do every 2-3 days (I still mist him/her daily and he/she will open his mouth a bit). I washed out a small eye drop bottle today and filled with warm water after your suggestion and he/she did have some, but didn’t seem overly thirsty. I tried a different thermometer to measure the heat in the basking area and it was 100. I currently have a digital probe thermometer on one side (that I think is inaccurate) and a ZooMed thermometer/humidity gauge on the other. Would Phoenix worms be good to try?
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby Drache613 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:44 pm

Moved & Merged by Moderator from General to Beardie ER
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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby BrdEMamaG » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:31 am

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Re: New beardie mom with MBD baby

Postby BrdEMamaG » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:39 am

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Ok so I got liquid calcium and mixed it with the water in my little dropper and he drank quite a bit again! Also I got wax worms (to really encourage him to eat) and dusted multivite on them and he ate one! I also put the temp probe actually ON the basking area instead of next to the glass and it has leveled off around 103-105. I don’t think they’re too hot as they stay up in the basking areas and don’t try to hide or go to the cooler areas. Should I look into ordering Phoenix worms? Are those better than small crickets as the main protein source?
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